Infinite Timereaver and Grove Warden

[Wain]

A few model shots of the Infinite Drake up:
http://www.warcraftmounts.com/mounts/in ... reaver.php

The wings are translucent so a background shadow was needed.

[Wain]

I merged some recent discussion from the Legion mount thread about these two mounts, since the same discussions were going on in two places and these aren't Legion mounts.

[Jurz]

Didn't they used to award "Ahead of the curve" raiders with 100% drop rate mounts then drop the rate later to 1 or 2% basically?

The only AotC mount so far has been the Kor'kron War Wolf. Everyone who got the achieve got the mount.

Mythic (or equivalent) only mounts that drop off end bosses have traditionally been 100% drop, then nerfed to 1% once the content is no longer current.

As for the Infinite Drake, super pumped! I read that it's 100% drop rate if ran with friends? Is that true? Like a whole group of friends/guildies?

It's personal loot, so it shouldn't make a difference who you run the dungeon with. And it's just too early to know what the drop rate will be. Anything you read to the contrary is just rumor.

I know the Wolf was technically the first AotC mount but awarding people with a mount that drops 100% of the time and nerfing the drop rate once the content is no longer current is essentially the same thing. They took the wolf away when the content wasn't current, I just think a nerf in drop rate is better since it gives the people who don't or can't raid a chance to get the mount if they're willing to farm it once it's soloable. That's just my opinion though.

I know the drake is personal loot and I figured the drop rate would be super low, I just asked because I saw someone say it somewhere and I was really confused because I couldn't find a Blue saying it and just wanted to make sure it wasn't true.

[peanutbuttercup]

I know the Wolf was technically the first AotC mount but awarding people with a mount that drops 100% of the time and nerfing the drop rate once the content is no longer current is essentially the same thing. They took the wolf away when the content wasn't current, I just think a nerf in drop rate is better since it gives the people who don't or can't raid a chance to get the mount if they're willing to farm it once it's soloable. That's just my opinion though.

It's not exactly the same thing as the entire group gets the AotC mount versus only 1 mount dropping per kill of a mythic end boss (so to get one for the entire raid team you'd need 20 weeks).

It wouldn't bother me if they added the War Wolf back in as a very low chance drop (1%) on heroic Garrosh. I think that's a fair compromise for those who missed getting it when it was current.

[MaximumOverdrive]

I absolutely adore the Timereaver mount, especially since it's model is based on the Wind Drake (which are one of my fav drake models). I don't think it'll be too bad to farm for since it's personal loot and every boss has a chance to drop it.

As for the Moose...that's kinda annoying. I'm no longer in a guild that raids (pretty much my guild quit during WoD), and haven't had any real desire to raid in this expansion at all. I have no idea how much it costs to pay for a run, but I doubt I have the gold for that either. Fingers crossed it'll be added to the store when Legion comes out. Personally that doesn't seem like a bad idea. Let people who can get it early have it, then later make it so others can get it who, for whatever reason, was unable to get it while current (kinda like the whole making some mounts have a 100% droprate when stuff was current, then later nerfing it).

[Slickrock]

I don't like to raid. Much less heroic. So this isn't a change I'm happy about.

If they confirm that we can get it in the store later, that's great. Till they do, I'm not going to be a happy camper. High end raiders get ALOT Of content 'just for them' and for bragging rights. Adding in more isn't going to 'keep them happy'. It's just going to anger the more casual base. Remember, for every -one- raiding Heroic or Mythic, there's probably 5000+ players that never do. The "Minority" "IS" the high end raiders.

Do they really get "ALOT" of content? There's the mount from the final boss on the highest difficulty, the title from the final boss on the highest difficulty, and... some slightly different item models from the bosses on the highest difficulty...?

So much this.. for the average raider, the only "special" thing is really just accomplishing something with your team. Regular raiders rarely see those mounts, and Blizz has been so lazy with gear design that there are few rewards there except feeding progression.

Blizz likely has a few goals here...

1) Keep subs.
2) Encourage more raiding
3) Keep us busy.

I'm also part of the anti-microtransaction crowd, so it not being a store mount, even if I don't get it, is fine with me.

[Castile]

The change could anger the casual base... or it could encourage them to strive for a goal.

You can only strive for that goal with a guild though. It's not an obtainable thing for everyone. Some people just can't pug due to anxiety issues caused by previous guilds or simply don't have the time to sit in the lfg tool for hours on end. If the quest item was available some other way like a drop in lfr (even if it wasn't a 100% thing to make it fair) then yeah I'd agree.

Unless they stick this mount in afterwards in the store people will be pissed - mainly because it was said previously they would. If they hadn't of said that then I doubt the casual base would care/cry about it.

Fingers crossed we see this at some point in a more casual friendly way.

[Lupen202]

As I mentioned before I'll try to gear up and down Archi with a pug, but with that said I do agree with Castile. I have social anxiety, so the fear of messing up causes pretty bad stress. It's very hard to understand when you don't have anxiety, because "normal" people would just brush it off. But hell, I still think back to an incident a year ago, where I got cussed out in vent over a Garrosh wipe due to the engineer being left up, even though I was never told that I was on engineer duty.

And joining a raiding guild is not an option on my realm. Plus I don't have the time to commit to a schedule anyways.

I really do hope the moose gets another source once Legion is released... hopefully a source that isn't the BMAH again.

[Malackai]

I managed Garrosh on heroic to get the wolf mount in MoP, but Archi definitely seems more difficult. I'll try to gear up and attempt it but it just really stresses me out when I haven't raided at all since SoO. I wish they'd at least make it normal mode. This isn't even tied to the Aotc achieve, but is apparently a quest setting up legion. I think anyone that can defeat Archi outside of LFR deserves to experience this quest line.

At any rate I do hope we get more moose mounts now, so if I do end up failing this one I'll be able to fall back on a less epic version.. but still. I try to get as many retired mounts as I can.

Indeed You only needed normal kill for the wolf mount which was very doable btw, but even back then I wasn't really to fond with the way the achievement was handled same with the remove of the cloak quest. For the information I have both.

I was already on a very neutral stance of coming back to legion when it would release, and when I saw the drake mount it the first thing I thought was nice at least something to work for when I come back.

Then I read about the moose mount saw the AotC thing my mood dampened, then I saw they moved the scale up to to heroic mood killed instantly. Then read they are putting a tiny lore/quest tidbit attached to it I started to get mildly irritated.

Maybe its my age or something but I am having it up to here with all this "removable" rewards if its not current content.
Lower drop rate would have been fine at least you have something to work for when your bored>_> and the reason its starting to bug me more is because they slowly starting to add more and more every expansion.

Its one of the main reasons I am still not bored with the game I am playing now. I am doing old raids there for transmogrify gear and the achievement pet or mounts. (I know you can do this in WoW as well but this game doesn't have weekly lockouts on old content so that give you more breathing space you can either skip it some weeks or just go on a farming binge if you choose to do so)

Doing old dailies for mounts and stuff. I even started the old "legendary" quest for my weapon, its grindy as hell. But I love the weapon skin and I can just do it in my own pace even if the damn thing is obsolete but I can still enjoy the story attached to it.
It made me aware that having some content even if its obsolete can be a good thing especially if there's some lore or stories attached to it.

[Equeon]

I know this won't resonate well with everyone, but why does every new in-game mount have to be available to everyone?

Mounts like the Fel Dreadwing, the Rylak, the Ironbound horse from Timewalking, and the Infinite Drake were all great mounts added with the expectation that anyone can earn them. They don't require anything too crazy - just reps/dailies and dungeon grinding. With enough repetition of those Apexis quests and Timewalking dungeons, you WILL get those mounts.

Occasionally, some mounts are added that don't follow this pattern. The Challenger's Yeti and Felsteel Annihilator are rewards for the very highest level of PvE content. Very few people will get them, and that number will plummet further with the next expansion as the Yeti becomes unavailable and the Annihilator drops to a 1% droprate.

But what about the in-between? Something that isn't only for the most hardcore Mythic/Gold CM raiders, but requires a good bit of dedication to achieve?

As of now, there is a real lack of incentives for an average, or slightly-greater-than-average player (who is not in a raiding guild) to strive to clear Normal or Heroic HFC unless they just want the achievements.

The Moose would effectively fill that lack of incentives.


I'm sorry that some of you have had bad experiences with PUGs in the past, but... that's the thing. Shouldn't the people who risk those kind of situations -- where they have actual individual responsibility, where they have to communicate and follow directions, and they're put against a higher level of difficulty -- be eligible to get a reward that can't be obtained through something that can be done with one hand while watching Netflix?


I do hope the moose goes on the store a month or two into Legion. But I definitely think Blizzard made the right choice for now.

[Arthur]

I am really excited about the Infinite Timereaver! It's really pretty. Hoping it won't be too much of a hideously low droprate, but I will do what it takes to get that lovely dragon

[Wain]

I know this won't resonate well with everyone, but why does every new in-game mount have to be available to everyone?

Mounts like the Fel Dreadwing, the Rylak, the Ironbound horse from Timewalking, and the Infinite Drake were all great mounts added with the expectation that anyone can earn them. They don't require anything too crazy - just reps/dailies and dungeon grinding. With enough repetition of those Apexis quests and Timewalking dungeons, you WILL get those mounts.

Occasionally, some mounts are added that don't follow this pattern. The Challenger's Yeti and Felsteel Annihilator are rewards for the very highest level of PvE content. Very few people will get them, and that number will plummet further with the next expansion as the Yeti becomes unavailable and the Annihilator drops to a 1% droprate.

But what about the in-between? Something that isn't only for the most hardcore Mythic/Gold CM raiders, but requires a good bit of dedication to achieve?

As of now, there is a real lack of incentives for an average, or slightly-greater-than-average player (who is not in a raiding guild) to strive to clear Normal or Heroic HFC unless they just want the achievements.

The Moose would effectively fill that lack of incentives.


I'm sorry that some of you have had bad experiences with PUGs in the past, but... that's the thing. Shouldn't the people who risk those kind of situations -- where they have actual individual responsibility, where they have to communicate and follow directions, and they're put against a higher level of difficulty -- be eligible to get a reward that can't be obtained through something that can be done with one hand while watching Netflix?


I do hope the moose goes on the store a month or two into Legion. But I definitely think Blizzard made the right choice for now.

It would be kind of nice if they had a normal mount and a mythic one, even if they were two colours of the same awesome mount (i.e. NOT two colours of a mount that had 5 colours elsewhere in the expansion already!). A bit like Dragon Soul, maybe. Except perhaps without the 5-minute dialogs and infuriating cinematics

[Equeon]

It would be kind of nice if they had a normal mount and a mythic one, even if they were two colours of the same awesome mount (i.e. NOT two colours of a mount that had 5 colours elsewhere in the expansion already!). A bit like Dragon Soul, maybe. Except perhaps without the 5-minute dialogs and infuriating cinematics

Yeah, a single recolor and/or an "armored/unarmored" version can make a mount sufficiently unique. That'd work for me.

And it's a good thing that none of the other raids have really gone so far as Dragon Soul in the "unskippable dialog" moments.

"IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN ALEXSTRASZA. I HAVE BEEN BUSY IN MY ABSEN-"

"Oh, for the hundredth time, skip the drakes and the jabbering and just send Ultraxion at me!"

[Castile]

I know this won't resonate well with everyone, but why does every new in-game mount have to be available to everyone?

Nobody is saying every mount has to be for everyone - but THIS particular one WAS stated it would be. To then change it to something only a few people would do/see in game seems abit of a bum rap. I think people who are upset are right to be so.

[Equeon]

I know this won't resonate well with everyone, but why does every new in-game mount have to be available to everyone?

Nobody is saying every mount has to be for everyone - but THIS particular one WAS stated it would be. To then change it to something only a few people would do/see in game seems abit of a bum rap. I think people who are upset are right to be so.

Was it ever "stated"? There were strings for it to be in the store and obviously that was the plan, but I don't think there was ever an official announcement. And nothing on the PTR is set in stone.

I could go on forever, making the same arguments I'm sure both sides are sick of. But continuing off of the point I made with my last post, making some mounts harder to get creates actual motivation for playing the content of the World of Warcraft. You know... the purpose of the game, to experience content within that game that you're paying a subscription for.

Making an external transaction is not content. It's purely about enjoying a shiny mount.
Unlike most other mounts, which may have actual lore and at least a modicum of depth behind them, with store mounts you get a mail and it's right there for you.

When you earn a mount that takes effort to obtain in game, it's not just about the reward... it's about the destination and the journey.

And really... what else would motivate players to continue raiding for the next 5? 6? 7? months? Who in their right mind would care about Heroic Archimonde in the stagnant period right before a new expansion hits... unless there was a beautiful mount and/or possibility for great profit?

For many players, including myself, the Grove Warden being available ingame makes the difference between staying subscribed and actually playing the game's current content, as opposed to buying the mount and quickly getting bored (or never obtaining it at all). By changing the source from the store to ingame (even if only temporarily), they appease an equally upset crowd of players and encourage remaining subscribers to stick with the game a little longer.

[Wain]

Mounts have always included a subset that can only be obtained by those who are in a particular "elite" or niche group. Like the Arena season rewards; nobody but a few seriously expect to get one. So I think the majority of players are used to the fact they won't be able to collect every last mount and don't expect every mount will be available for them. (Personally I'm not a fan of retiring any pets or mounts, except arena season where there's a special history, but that's a difference in philosophy and not an expectation.)

The moose mount, however, has a particular history behind it and I can sympathize with those who are going to find it difficult to obtain within the limited time period. Of all the mounts they've introduced lately, that is the one that I feel should be widely obtainable, just because its history makes it feel like should belong to everyone.

By the end of WoD, heroic Archimonde should be easy to find groups for, however. Just like Garrosh in MoP. Hopefully everyone here will have the chance to get one.

[SylviaDragon]

nnerrggh! you are giving me dragon soul flashbacks. i know that dialog by heart and despise every syllable of it. the acting, the long pauses, the annoying trash- the plot holes....missing the two drakes off deathwing.


I do agree that not all mounts should be easy to get. there seems to be a growing misconception of casual friendly meaning = no work for same rewards. (not that I am accusing anyone of saying so here) I don't agree with that.
I do hope they at least add another moose somewhere else in the game. i'm ok with them throwing one in the stores now or making an unarmored rep mount or something for other players because i know what a huge deal the moose is to everyone.


Also i cant remember where i read it but i think the drake is going to be 1% like most other mounts. o.-

[Wain]

nnerrggh! you are giving me dragon soul flashbacks. i know that dialog by heart and despise every syllable of it. the acting, the long pauses, the annoying trash- the plot holes....missing the two drakes off deathwing.

"The fire of my heart glows with a brilliant purity unmatched!" - *wince* Did the writers even read this stuff out loud before committing it to production? I swear DS was the worst, most camp, pantomime-level dialog of any dungeon they've ever made. Anyway...

I do hope they at least add another moose somewhere else in the game. i'm ok with them throwing one in the stores now or making an unarmored rep mount or something for other players because i know what a huge deal the moose is to everyone.

Yeah, I'm hoping the fact that the moose is no longer a store mount will make it much more acceptable to put another in the game. As the radioactive moose is very flashy, they could easily get away with adding some regular moose mounts without upsetting the majority of people who got the former.

[SylviaDragon]

oh yeah. so many campy lines. I still cringe every time i hear them. And why did they not take or destroy the orb in Eot? they were waiting to spring a trap on us when we got there so they would have had enough time to do it. why not take the time to get rid of it? without it the Dragonsoul could not be used and Deathwing would win.

Yeah, I'm hoping the fact that the moose is no longer a store mount will make it much more acceptable to put another in the game. As the radioactive moose is very flashy, they could easily get away with adding some regular moose mounts without upsetting the majority of people who got the former.

Also i looked it up and it still seems to have its flying animations. they could easily go the route of making a ground only version. kind of like how the Halloween and kara mounts are so similar but one can fly.

[Syn]

I managed Garrosh on heroic to get the wolf mount in MoP, but Archi definitely seems more difficult. I'll try to gear up and attempt it but it just really stresses me out when I haven't raided at all since SoO. I wish they'd at least make it normal mode. This isn't even tied to the Aotc achieve, but is apparently a quest setting up legion. I think anyone that can defeat Archi outside of LFR deserves to experience this quest line.

At any rate I do hope we get more moose mounts now, so if I do end up failing this one I'll be able to fall back on a less epic version.. but still. I try to get as many retired mounts as I can.

Indeed You only needed normal kill for the wolf mount which was very doable btw, but even back then I wasn't really to fond with the way the achievement was handled same with the remove of the cloak quest. For the information I have both.

I was already on a very neutral stance of coming back to legion when it would release, and when I saw the drake mount it the first thing I thought was nice at least something to work for when I come back.

Then I read about the moose mount saw the AotC thing my mood dampened, then I saw they moved the scale up to to heroic mood killed instantly. Then read they are putting a tiny lore/quest tidbit attached to it I started to get mildly irritated.

Maybe its my age or something but I am having it up to here with all this "removable" rewards if its not current content.
Lower drop rate would have been fine at least you have something to work for when your bored>_> and the reason its starting to bug me more is because they slowly starting to add more and more every expansion.

Its one of the main reasons I am still not bored with the game I am playing now. I am doing old raids there for transmogrify gear and the achievement pet or mounts. (I know you can do this in WoW as well but this game doesn't have weekly lockouts on old content so that give you more breathing space you can either skip it some weeks or just go on a farming binge if you choose to do so)

Doing old dailies for mounts and stuff. I even started the old "legendary" quest for my weapon, its grindy as hell. But I love the weapon skin and I can just do it in my own pace even if the damn thing is obsolete but I can still enjoy the story attached to it.
It made me aware that having some content even if its obsolete can be a good thing especially if there's some lore or stories attached to it.

Heroic = Normal from last expansion.
It's essentially the same thing and is easily puggable at the moment and will be even more so when the valor upgrades hit the scene.

I fully understand people who are afraid of messing up, etc. - but this will be available for 40k or less if you choose to pay a guild.
On my server you can already get an Archimonde kill for 40-50k