Suggested Change To Exotic Pets

[Lisaara]

I've noticed the trend. Kinda got tired of repeating myself after awhile. Plus RL called me to do things.

Yeah, not sure how much more it needs to be repeated; if they don't get it, they don't get it. I guess all that matters is that we know what BM means to us.

Exactly. I dont care if its not top dps. I play it cause it means a lot to me. ^_^ I love my exotics as much as I do my regular pets.

[Slickrock]

This. If you want an exotic pet then go BM. The entire point of BM is it about the pet and the ability to tame exotic pets. Thus the name Beast Master. Your the master of all beasts. The point of different specs is because there different. That would be like a boomie asking for resto only healing spells..

What was the point of Beast Mastery before they could tame exotics in Wrath? People still played BM in vanilla and BC.

That was before BW and TBW got nerfed.

In BC, BIG and RED was the name of the game. In Wrath it was exotics. Assuming we take away exotics (can't believe this idea is going around still) then BM has... Camo?..

Yes, exotics are mostly flavor now. A cat is just as good as a spirit beast for leveling, and if you are raiding in 25's it doesn't matter what pet you bring now.

So, I'll propose my idea again. Make all pets tameable by any spec, but the extra abilities only open up with the the BM talent. So everyone can have any pet, and any pet can be exotic.

[TygerDarkstorm]

I've noticed the trend. Kinda got tired of repeating myself after awhile. Plus RL called me to do things.

Yeah, not sure how much more it needs to be repeated; if they don't get it, they don't get it. I guess all that matters is that we know what BM means to us.

Exactly. I dont care if its not top dps. I play it cause it means a lot to me. ^_^ I love my exotics as much as I do my regular pets.

Fully agreed.

Slick: As we keep saying, the shiny exotic pets are the reward for choosing to be a beast master. They're the pinnacle of hunter skills, not the abilities. They nerfed our key abilities into the ground, I'd rather exotics stayed exclusive to the spec as they're sort of like our signature shot, which we all know BM doesn't have.

[Rakurai]

I've been for the idea of non-exotic pets getting additional abilities if owned by BM hunters since the day they announced that exotics would have additional abilities.

I'd also like if they'd bother to give more pets then beetles and turtles an ability that's actually fitting for a tanking pet. I don't think it would kill them to give crocs Bad Attitude back, and Warp back to warp stalkers.

[Wark]

I've fully agreed with you this entire time too. =P
I felt it needed to be repeated since it feels like some of the others are reading something different than what we're saying.

No, everyone's mostly just reading either "this person agrees with me, yay, I like them" or "this person is disagreeing with me, HOW CAN THEY BE SO WRONG, let me tell them they're wrong again."

I will admit this thread has been very illuminating for me, since I've graduated from "OMG HOW CAN THEY DISAGREE" (which, 99 times out of 100, is a sign that I Have Not Spoken To Anybody Ever And Just Made Lots of Assumptions) to "oh, well, ok, THAT'S how they disagree." Progress!


Anyways as near as I can figure out when tired and kind of hyped up on the sweet, sweet high of completing game objectives recently, the two ends of the spectrum represented in this thread go something like:

• -"I play Beast Mastery to get the special pets other people don't." Seems to comprise most of the people disagreeing with the OP's suggestion.
  -"I play Beast Mastery to make my pets, regardless of what they are, better." Approximately the OP's approach, although I don't want to put words in his mouth.

These are really rough and horrible outlines but I thinkkkkk it's related to which direction you are going relative your pets. Uhm. To put that more sanely, whether a pet is your starting point and you make decisions around it, or whether you make decisions and a pet is the result. For example, if you want a Spirit Beast to be a sign that you are a Beast Master, you are starting with a decision ("I am BM, rawr") and resulting in a pet (flipflip moonfire regrowth kitty). If, instead, you want the kind of changes the OP is proposing, it might be because you have this one pet you really love and care for (let's call her BloodmawtheRavager) and you want to build a spec that allows said pet to take center stage in your hunter's life-- ie even though BloodmawtheRavager is not exotic, you want to go BM so that she's not "a furry little DoT" but an important contributor. Start with pet, end with decisions.

Admittedly some of the current tension in the pet-decision camp (as opposed to decision-pet camp) is because of the slightly awe-inspiring obsession the WoW community in general has with min-maxxing. From a neutral perspective, the mechanical differences between a cat (Windfury Yowl) and a spirit beast (Windfury Yowl PLUS Regrowth) are, as you point out, a very small edge. On the other hand people are often driven as though by demons to get their hands on every little edge they can get, because 99 times out of 100 you just flat-out died but that 1 time you would have lived if only you had a Spirit Beast instead of a Cat really stings. Insert arguments about how "being good" translates to "picking the slightest competitive advantage most of the time" if you feel like it. Also insert counter-arguments about how skill often relies less on doing your homework and more on not being AFK during the dungeon but whatever.

Anyways I would like to point out that since these are subjective approaches to the same topic that repeatedly trying to explain "you are wrong" is probably not going to get you anywhere, let alone sway people to your opinion. (I couldn't even type that sentence without cringing. Why I couldn't have figured this out five posts ago before I made myself look stupid, I don't know.) I do have hope that, like peoples' approaches to being attached to their pets, we might gain a little more tolerance and understanding though. That'd be nice. And less repetitive.

[Bushsbuddy]

Well put Wark,

Im just going to try to sum up my reasons behind wanting the change in a compact way.

-The fact that currently a BM hunter looking for the best performance is actually the most restricted in pet choice doesn't make sense to me

-Most pet abilities are boring(buffs), and adding a second layer of interesting utility abilties would not only be fun, but a buff to the BM spec

- Quality of life issue for non BM hunters. Why should half my stable be useless if I spec out of BM somewhere down the line, and not be able to use the pet skin I like?

- I believe BM is being held back my basing it around fancy LOOKING pets

Also, no one seems to mention the part about extra fluff abilties like the fox dance, and the bird trick, blizz should expand on those. Same with the ability to pick your pet's talent tree.

[Bushsbuddy]

I just thought of a compromise, for no other reason than to appease the pretty pet people.

What if, Bm hunters could unlock secondary abilites in all pets, but could still be the only spec that can tame exotics.

[TygerDarkstorm]

Why do all pets need a secondary ability? Using the spirit beast/cat example, spirit beasts have sorta always been glorified cats; they had prowl and rake and could spirit strike. With 4.0.1, cats got prowl and the roar, which spirit beasts also have. By this pattern it stands to reason that blizzard would make the cat special be the heal. Why do we need two pets that do exactly the same thing? Pets have been normalized as it is, I'd rather not see it continue.

[Bushsbuddy]

Why do all pets need a secondary ability? Using the spirit beast/cat example, spirit beasts have sorta always been glorified cats; they had prowl and rake and could spirit strike. With 4.0.1, cats got prowl and the roar, which spirit beasts also have. By this pattern it stands to reason that blizzard would make the cat special be the heal. Why do we need two pets that do exactly the same thing? Pets have been normalized as it is, I'd rather not see it continue.

I'll say the most obvious reason in that example is because most people don't want to camp a spirit beast to gain access to an ability. Second, it doesn't have to be a heal. Third, what If a BM hunter for some reason doesn't like his spirit beast, but loves his cat. If he wants the heal he is limited n his choice, which doesn't make sense. Finally, more abilities are a good thing.

[bluddy]

Slick: As we keep saying, the shiny exotic pets are the reward for choosing to be a beast master. They're the pinnacle of hunter skills, not the abilities. They nerfed our key abilities into the ground, I'd rather exotics stayed exclusive to the spec as they're sort of like our signature shot, which we all know BM doesn't have.

we are going to have our signature shot ..insert blue post here...

New Hunter Abilities


Cobra Shot (level 81): A new shot that deals Nature damage instead of Physical damage. This ability will share a cooldown with Steady Shot. This will give hunters an alternative to Steady Shot on heavily-armored targets, and we will have talent incentives in the Beast Mastery tree to make this a signature shot

The way i feel is i like all of my pets i raid in BM, but i know i have to be mm in some raids..."LK" but i don't mind so i can use my wolf. Ofcourse there are certain points of view that u should be able to bring u'r devilsaur out for the same buff...but i don't think so. I've played BM all the way since i started...*ok since lvl 19* and i've always enjoyed it. i loved parading through the dungeons with *araga, uhk'loc, mazzranache, etc...* now at lvl 80...pfff bm who cares? well i do. i like running around with a nice pet. exotic or not. The pugs i've been in...rofl an lousy dps...no story here how i manage to impress the other hunters though but i manage to keep myself standing. The main four pet's i've been raiding with are my wolf, my cat, my loque and my core hound. usually as bm but if i feel like mm i change to mm. I don't get why people want to get their SB's out in MM...If you care that much about you're pet then why aren't you BM? Oh well if you still think you want to use u'r exotics in MM or Surv, you should like at u'r bunch of pixels and say. why the hell am i complaining? if u find u'r pet so important to whine about choose bm, if u care about u'r dps be MM or surv and if you wanna damage with an exotic bunch of pixels...well just say why do you want to damage with him? do you care about the pet or about the damage..the choise is up to you.

EDIT

just reread...HUZZAH!!! my first unconstructive post ever!

[Tahlian]

Bluddy:

Cobra Shot is not the BM "signature shot." Our intended "signature shot" is Kill Command...which, as it happens, all three trees have access to because it's a baseline ability. Cobra Shot will be used by BM and Survival to regen Focus and refresh their Serpent Sting, which Marks uses Steady Shot for because of the Imp Steady Shot talent in the Marks talent tree. The Marks and Survival signature shots are either Aimed/Explosive or Chimera/Black Arrow...I'm still a little fuzzy as to which is actually intended to be signature for the other two hunter trees.

To the subject of the original post:

Re: Exotic Pets...they're fine as they are. Really. Yeah, they have an extra little "spiff," if you will, but I think Blizzard has done admirably well at making them nice to have, but by no means required, so that a BM hunter can use whatever the hell pet they want to. Yeah, in my 10-man raid, I offer to use my silithid if our priest can't make it because I like helping out my raid and I want to hurry up and get those silly bone drakes for us. But if I felt like it, I could certainly say "no, I'm only going to use my cat," and so long as I keep my DPS up - which is baseline all the way 'round pet-wise - my group's fine. We used Fort scrolls when I was tanking on my paladin before I started bringing my hunter, and we could certainly do so again. It's purely at the hunter's discretion as to whether or not he or his raid chooses to use the various pet buffs or debuffs. What's the last step on the pet flowchart if all buffs are covered? "Bring what looks prettiest." We can do that all that time if we want to. The exotic pet abilities offer exactly zilch in the way of additional DPS. They're a nice bonus, not a requirement.

And frankly...it would kind of irk my odd little beast master heart to see a hunter walking around with King Krush and Trueshot Aura or Hunting Party on them (when not in a group with another hunter, of course. You know what I mean).

[bluddy]

oh well thanks for the corection tahlian ^^

and if i didn't make it clear in my post (...it's an hell to read ) i'm for to let exotics BM only

[Worba]

I dont like that exotic pets are BM only. I realize that Blizz did that to make BM feel special, but really all it does is limit the pets a spec can use, even BM, and make you have a stable full of useless pets that can't be moved if you drop BM all together.

So I was thinking, now that they have a system, where non exotic pets have a non exotic ability, like a buff, or something non damaging, and exotics have an extra ability, why not expand on that.

I think that ALL pets should have exotic and non exotic abilites. And as BM you would be able to you would be able to use the exotic ability. Take a current pet, like the worm. If i remember, it has the 4$ physical damage buff. As MM or SV you could use the worm, and that would be its abilty. As BM, you would still have that, and slo get the burrow aoe attack it currently has.

Hmmm. Well, in a narrow sense you're right about being forced to take certain pets, but it's not an exotic / non-exotic thing as you described; rather it's that worms and chimera currently are OP.

And making everything exotic is not a good solution to that problem.

Outside of the aforementioned, I don't agree that BM hunters are "forced" to take any certain pet - I think Blizzard did a good job of balancing exotics vs regulars to the extent that a BM hunter can use a non-exotic pet and still do fine.

Will BM hunters tend to use exotics more often? Of course - they're exclusive. We hunters love us some exclusivity - the more exclusive, the more coveted. Case in point - spirit guides and croco slimes; none are exotics and yet those who have them, love them, and use them proudly.

I'm going to have to agree with the "not broke = don't fixit" crowd on this one.

[Wark]

Why do all pets need a secondary ability?

Because some people don't want to decide between a mechanical advantage or a flavor one. At the risk of repeating myself, stems from the general WoW player obsession with "doing things the SINGLE, RIGHT WAY."

By this pattern it stands to reason that blizzard would make the cat special be the heal. Why do we need two pets that do exactly the same thing?

It doesn't have to. There's no current example of any two families sharing both the same special and exotic abilities. If Blizzard went the "exotic is an ability not a family" route, it could hypothetically be an incentive to make sure fewer families share special abilities in the first place, since if everyone can get it why have duplicates.

Pets have been normalized as it is, I'd rather not see it continue.

And, on the other end of the spectrum, whenever I see examples of non-normalized pets, my reaction ranges from a mild disdain but willing to be happy for other people (Arikara's smoke cloud comes to mind) to a nearly overwhelming urge to gnaw off my arm in rage. I hate individual pets being made Special Little Snowflakes. Back in the day all the BEST pets were rarespawns or elites, and it angered me-- I didn't like that getting the BEST pet hinged on a willingness to do activities I dislike (group runs with an unusual objective, camping rares). Part of it is that I deliberately dig my heels in whenever someone wants to draw cause-and-effect between something being set apart from the norm and it thus being superior; part of it is just flat out contrariness. A portion of it is personal history-- I was getting teased for taming a plain Corrupted Scorpid instead of Deathflayer four YEARS after the fact.

The pet system overhaul for BC's launch was the greatest thing since sliced bread for me. It corralled the inequality into existing among pet families, instead of among pet families AND each individual pet. Suddenly it didn't matter if someone had Brokentooth or the lioness they fell in love with on their first foray through the Barrens-- it was a cat, which was a cat, same as any other cat. No more "rewarding" people who went out and did the hard thing just so they could brag and say they did the hard thing-- now pet choice was a bit more about your preferences, and a little bit less about "suffering to be the BEST."

(I swear I'll stop writing massive walls of text someday....)

[TygerDarkstorm]

I didn't say go back to the vanilla style of pets where only a certain few were any good. However, as much as I like that we have more pet choice than ever, I still dislike what they've done to some of the pets. There's only about two or three tenacity pets that are true tank pets and a lot of cunning pets, which are supposed to be pvp/utility pets, got those sorts of abilities taken away as well.

[Wark]

I didn't say go back to the vanilla style of pets where only a certain few were any good. However, as much as I like that we have more pet choice than ever, I still dislike what they've done to some of the pets. There's only about two or three tenacity pets that are true tank pets and a lot of cunning pets, which are supposed to be pvp/utility pets, got those sorts of abilities taken away as well.

1. Could you please explain this in more detail?

2. How does the suckiness of some pet tanking/pvp/utility abilities tie in to the argument for/against further normalization of pets a la OP's suggestion?

[Bushsbuddy]

I don't see how people are thinking I'm in favour of normalization. I mean, I'm saying the exotic abilities for all families would be unique or semi unique at least. For intsance, I don't think a cat having the same exotic ability would be good. It brings no utility that way. What WOULD bring utility would be maybe a heal from a tenacity or cunning pet.

Let me just quote myself since most people seemed to have missed it while raging that they might not be special snowflakes.

I just thought of a compromise, for no other reason than to appease the pretty pet people.

What if, Bm hunters could unlock secondary abilites in all pets, but could still be the only spec that can tame exotics.

This isn't even about giving MM/SV exotic pets, even though I think its a good idea. Its about expanding pet viability for BM, and adding more utility to the spec. Now you can say a pet healing you doesn't matter if it does the same DPS, and I would say that you have never PVP'd. Since the patch, I have almost exclusively PVP'd with the spirit beast, because frankly its the only way for hunters to have any survivability these days. Faced a shadowpriest lately? Even with 1300 resillience and 40k hp, one round of DOTS and im down below half health, if not down to 1/3.

Not everything is about dps in a raid. Im hoping cata brings the need for more utility like self heals, or snares, or knockbacks etc so that PVE isn't such a faceroll.