Request for Flesh Beast

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Re: Request for Flesh Beast

Unread post by Warfish » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:00 pm

Saturo wrote:EDIT: And Warfish, I totally want different skins for my ghouls and demons too. That's something I really support. I just think that some classes shouldn't HAVE pets at all.
Probably true.

Lets see....

Hunters + Beasts
Warlocks + Demons
Death Knights + Undead

And give either Shaman, or Mages (I would say Shaman personally) a "Elemental Pets" talent Tree.

And give female blood elves tamable male Humanoids maybe?

Yes, that last was a (bad) joke. ;)

I'm sure we'd all design a game differently if we ran it (perhaps best we don't), but I still think the game-in-my-head would be great as laid out above, all of "X" tamable by each class as listed, with appropriate skills/balancing of course, for that class, and perhaps only one tree of each class getting the Pet (so those who don't want pets can still play snipah Hunter).

And to placate Worba, who seems a bit uptight over this topic, here is a herty +1 to whatever Worba wants. :D
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Re: Request for Flesh Beast

Unread post by Worba » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:04 pm

Warfish wrote:And to placate Worba, who seems a bit uptight over this topic, here is a herty +1 to whatever Worba wants. :D
Project much? I'm not the one nursing a grudge. :D

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Re: Request for Flesh Beast

Unread post by Saturo » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:05 pm

Warfish wrote:
Saturo wrote:EDIT: And Warfish, I totally want different skins for my ghouls and demons too. That's something I really support. I just think that some classes shouldn't HAVE pets at all.
Probably true.

Lets see....

Hunters + Beasts
Warlocks + Demons
Death Knights + Undead

And give either Shaman, or Mages (I would say Shaman personally) a "Elemental Pets" talent Tree.

And give female blood elves tamable Humaoinds maybe?

Yes, that last was a (bad) joke. ;)

I'm sure we'd all design a game differently if we ran it (perhaps best we don't), but I still think the game-in-my-head would be great as laid out above, all of "X" tamable by each class as listed, with appropriate skills/balancing of course, for that class.

And to placate Worba, who seems a bit uptight over this topic, here is a herty +1 to whatever Worba wants. :D
Yeah, that's my reasoning as well. Shammies have elements, mages have always had water elementals, hunters obviously have beasts (even if I think MM should be without pets), warlocks have their demonic minions, and death knights have temporary (speccable to permanent) undead minions. It all makes perfect sense.
Worba wrote:Mmhmm.

And I stand by my assertion that world peace is better than world war IV, that babies should be cared for, and that mean people suck.
Yes, because clearly I want all babies dead, and lots of senseless killing in another senseless war. You can call me mean all you want, I think you just managed to misinterpret one of my sentences as mean, and directed at you, and trust me, it was not.

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Re: Request for Flesh Beast

Unread post by Ryai » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:07 pm

Saturo wrote:
Worba wrote:
Saturo wrote:And my other argument still stands:

Every class/spec does not need a pet.
Who are you arguing with here? Is someone pushing to give a pet to every class / spec?
Well, I can name a number of people, such as the ones asking for a permanent SPRiest pet, the druid dryad pet people, and those. It's also a general statement of my opinion on the matters of "This class should totally get this as a pet!".

Well reading over this thread [and no I'm not for taming a creature based off the movie Thing] has got me thinking, mostly about Warriors as I will admit when I was a noob I thought all classes could eventually get a form of a pet, I didn't realize only Hunters could tame beasts and that only Warlocks could get minions. So my first toon was a warrior [who was quickly rerolled for a hunter when I realized my mistake].

But, again I'm not for all classes to get pets, or all speccs, but, how cool would it be for a Warrior to summon a fighting companion, much like a Ench shammy summons wolves? I'm thinking it'd be along the lines of a [Battle/War [Race specific mount]], was thinking perhaps only for Prot warriors, or perhaps Fury Warriors, not for just warriors in general. My thinking has mostly been sparked by the fact that there are war horses who are trained in the art of battle basically. Ah here it is; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipizzan

Note what I was thinking of wasn't a perma pet.
Like pallies. They get... Summon Angel? Okay... That's...
It's no different than Warlocks summoning demons tbh- Paladins are the 'Anti Warlock' and most people jump from 'Demon' to 'Angel' for the counterpart of one or the other. And if I remember right it was supposedly a rehash of a WC spell anyways.


This is a hunterpet forum, so I realize we're not overrepresented, but among the overall MM and SV community, and the other classes as well, a lot of people don't like pets. It's a clunky mechanic, and some people have serious trouble concentrating on more than their own character. Imagine something that takes VERY quick reactions, timing on spells, various procs, whatever. And then imagine managing a pet added to that. It would be overwhelming.
And Saturo, you forget but MM and SV can function quite well still, without a pet. A DK can function just as well, without a pet. A warlock can function just as well without a pet, and their pets are easily replaced- a quick soulburn and a rez or if Demo the talent proccing and a rez. The rez also doesn't take 10 seconds to cast; Deathknights also can instantly rez their ghoul- and even with a few minute CD and all, I've seen most unholy DK's do it after a pet died Just to sacrifice it for a heal. While your argument has some valid points to the case, the only class+specc combo it fits to, is Beast Mastery, because you have to keep an eye on your pet, because if not you lose the ability to make use of Three Spells, a speed boost, our 'main shot; Kill Command' and The Beast Within/Beastial Wrath.

Whenever I'm playing on a toon with SV or MM as the specc, I find myself forgetting about the pet entirely or just letting people stupidly attack my pet in PVP as I run away or kill them out of spite.

And I also doubt it would be overwhelming to that extent, alot of macros exist where one press and pet is either passive/at your side or on the attack at your specific target, yada yada. I mean the only thing that gets distracting is when your pet glitches and disappears, runs off to attack a critter, refuses to attack a mob that is unknowingly glitched etc.



Also, ontopic, no. No hunters don't need Flesh Beasts. I had seen Shadow Fiends for priests before but never thought anything of them as well they were all shadowy. But when I saw the Flesh Beasts in Netherstorm. When I did the quest. When they ERUPTED FROM CORPSES TO TRY AND FEED ON MY SOUL I almost screamed like a little girl and fled from the sight. I hate them, they are NOT hunter pets, just because they have beast in their name, doesn't mean they are a beast. A Flesh Beast is based upon an alien in a remake of a movie that Ate creatures like the Blob, but worse, it ate them and transformed into them and it was NOT a quick process. Ontop of it the creature could INFECT people, slowly turning them into itself and evidently it would advance quicker with paranoia running through your mind.

So no.

Just no.

They're horrible little things I never want to see again.

Shadow Fiends= ok for SPriests

Flesh Beasts= ALL SHOULD BURN IN ETERNAL BERNING.

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Re: Request for Flesh Beast

Unread post by Warfish » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:08 pm

Worba wrote:
Warfish wrote:And to placate Worba, who seems a bit uptight over this topic, here is a herty +1 to whatever Worba wants. :D
Project much? I'm not the one nursing a grudge. :D
Just you wait till you get to know me! :D :lol: :D
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Re: Request for Flesh Beast

Unread post by Worba » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:09 pm

Saturo wrote:Yes, because clearly I want all babies dead, and lots of senseless killing in another senseless war.
No more than I want every spec of every class to get its own pet.
Saturo wrote:You can call me mean all you want, I think you just managed to misinterpret one of my sentences as mean, and directed at you, and trust me, it was not.
Sat, I don't think you're mean - saying "mean people suck" is just a silly statement same as "I like yummy food". You misinterpreted.

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Re: Request for Flesh Beast

Unread post by Saturo » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:16 pm

Worba wrote:
Saturo wrote:Yes, because clearly I want all babies dead, and lots of senseless killing in another senseless war.
No more than I want every spec of every class to get its own pet.
Okay, let me try to clear this up. I am NOT directing this at ANYONE, nor am I claiming that somebody has proposed a pet for every class. I am merely saying that I don't think that every class needs a pet. For me, as previously stated with Warfish, I can understand Shammies, Warlocks, Hunters, Mages and DKs. With "Not every class needs a pet", I mean that I don't think any other classes should have pets.
Worba wrote:
Saturo wrote:You can call me mean all you want, I think you just managed to misinterpret one of my sentences as mean, and directed at you, and trust me, it was not.
Sat, I don't think you're mean - saying "mean people suck" is just a silly statement same as "I like yummy food". You misinterpreted.
Thank you, but I realize that that is how I come across. It's unintended, really, but yes, I am mean, and arrogant, and overall a jerk. I just think that I need to clear this up before starting a fight, which I'd rather not. Of course, I'm just making it worse. Sorry.

And Ryai: That sounds so cool, but it does bring to mind the question, where does the Warrior store his allies when he's not using them. Do they just hide in the bushes until he calls them out? It's a neat idea for a spell, but sadly, I don't think that the reasoning for the spell can be as vague as "They were hiding nearby!". Sorry, but I still think it's a neat idea. It just happens to be so that I don't really think a warrior would have allies in the bushes, or be the only one with a fighting mount. I mean, why doesn't my troll hunters raptor fight too then? He's got big, sharp pointy teeth! :P

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Re: Request for Flesh Beast

Unread post by Worba » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:21 pm

Saturo wrote:Thank you, but I realize that that is how I come across. It's unintended, really, but yes, I am mean, and arrogant, and overall a jerk. I just think that I need to clear this up before starting a fight, which I'd rather not. Of course, I'm just making it worse. Sorry.
Not at all - you are an extremely talented artist, an intelligent debater and a nice person to have around the forums. Most of us (certainly including moi) can get prickly (or come off that way) at times, but that doesn't signify in the big picture. Rock on. :)

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Re: Request for Flesh Beast

Unread post by Ryai » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:23 pm

Saturo wrote:And Ryai: That sounds so cool, but it does bring to mind the question, where does the Warrior store his allies when he's not using them. Do they just hide in the bushes until he calls them out? It's a neat idea for a spell, but sadly, I don't think that the reasoning for the spell can be as vague as "They were hiding nearby!". Sorry, but I still think it's a neat idea. It just happens to be so that I don't really think a warrior would have allies in the bushes, or be the only one with a fighting mount. I mean, why doesn't my troll hunters raptor fight too then? He's got big, sharp pointy teeth! :P

Because they aren't trained in the art of war, that's why. I mean I never saw my mounts as well things that really fought. And it's why I specifically said 'war/battle' at the front of the name, something like; The warrior lets out a battle shout, summoning forth his/her loyal steed to fight by their side for XX seconds or until the steed obtains XX damage, lasts for XX seconds, cooldown of XX minutes. Or perhaps the steed gives a boost to endurance/IE stamina/strength/Agility/Something for a limited time, perhaps 15 seconds and has a cooldown of 3 minutes, or five minute cd, lasts for 25-30 seconds and boosts the entire party, and the party becomes sated by a Bloodlust debuff effect for 6-7 minutes. Like You have been boosted by the rallying sight of a Battle Steed, and can not be rallied anymore than you already have been for now.

Mean just because you don't see the mount doesn't mean the mount isn't there. 8D

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Re: Request for Flesh Beast

Unread post by Worba » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:27 pm

Ryai wrote:Because they aren't trained in the art of war, that's why. I mean I never saw my mounts as well things that really fought. And it's why I specifically said 'war/battle' at the front of the name, something like; The warrior lets out a battle shout, summoning forth his/her loyal steed to fight by their side for XX seconds or until the steed obtains XX damage, lasts for XX seconds, cooldown of XX minutes. Or perhaps the steed gives a boost to endurance/IE stamina/strength/Agility/Something for a limited time, perhaps 15 seconds and has a cooldown of 3 minutes, or five minute cd, lasts for 25-30 seconds and boosts the entire party, and the party becomes sated by a Bloodlust debuff effect for 6-7 minutes. Like You have been boosted by the rallying sight of a Battle Steed, and can not be rallied anymore than you already have been for now.

Mean just because you don't see the mount doesn't mean the mount isn't there. 8D
Ok, now I am going to veer offtopic, so feel free to bonk me with the hypocrite bat Warfish :P , but I have to comment on this here - I have trouble envisioning a warrior directing a pet as an independent unit, however what about a short duration ability that lets them fight from atop their mount? The idea of a mounted warrior e.g. knight, light horseman or what have you actually does seem like something that could (arguably anyway) be given to warriors instead of hunters...
Last edited by Worba on Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Request for Flesh Beast

Unread post by Saturo » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:31 pm

Worba wrote:
Ryai wrote:Because they aren't trained in the art of war, that's why. I mean I never saw my mounts as well things that really fought. And it's why I specifically said 'war/battle' at the front of the name, something like; The warrior lets out a battle shout, summoning forth his/her loyal steed to fight by their side for XX seconds or until the steed obtains XX damage, lasts for XX seconds, cooldown of XX minutes. Or perhaps the steed gives a boost to endurance/IE stamina/strength/Agility/Something for a limited time, perhaps 15 seconds and has a cooldown of 3 minutes, or five minute cd, lasts for 25-30 seconds and boosts the entire party, and the party becomes sated by a Bloodlust debuff effect for 6-7 minutes. Like You have been boosted by the rallying sight of a Battle Steed, and can not be rallied anymore than you already have been for now.

Mean just because you don't see the mount doesn't mean the mount isn't there. 8D
Ok, now I am going to veer offtopic, so feel free to bonk me with the hypocrite bat Warfish :P , but I have to comment on this here - I have trouble envisioning a warrior directing a pet as an independent unit, however what about a short duration ability that lets them fight from atop their mount? The idea of a mounted warrior e.g. knight, light horseman or what have you actually does seem like something that could (arguably anyway) be given to warriors instead of hunters...
Mounted warriors would be awesome. It would be a mix of Ryai's idea and the overall Knight hero class. As long as it isn't like the AWFUL mounted combat at Argent Tournament. xD

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Re: Request for Flesh Beast

Unread post by Worba » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:34 pm

Yeah I'm not a fan of using the argent tourny as a model for this - I was thinking more along these lines:

In its mounted (combat) state, I would imagine the warrior could receive some sort of buff like Ryai described (personal +sta boost for the extra horseflesh to soak up dmg, +kings due to feeling of inspiration it gives the group to be around a mounted knight or what have you), and the mount could also have a generic attack of some kind that procs off your own hits.

That way, you have something that's integrated and not complex
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Re: Request for Flesh Beast

Unread post by Ryai » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:35 pm

Worba wrote:Ok, now I am going to veer offtopic, so feel free to bonk me with the hypocrite bat Warfish :P , but I have to comment on this here - I have trouble envisioning a warrior directing a pet as an independent unit, however what about a short duration ability that lets them fight from atop their mount? The idea of a mounted warrior e.g. knight, light horseman or what have you actually does seem like something that could (arguably anyway) be given to warriors instead of hunters...
I'm not saying it's a pet, persay, just a summon. The war summons it's battle/war steed- as war steeds were trained in the art of war and all. And mean I've seen a donkey kill a mountain lion. And I've seen a horse grab a woman who got to close to her foal- by her chest too mind you. Well actually, the horse bit her on a boob, and flung her away from her foal. So I don't see how it's far fetched for a warrior to not have their 'loyal steed' come aid them in battle. And not seeing it as also an independant unit; but the Steed attacks your current target/switches target if you switch targets [if it is a fighting unit and not just a lolbuff unit], kinda like how warlocks Infernals/Doomguards are there, but have no 'attack bar'. Or it could just have an attack bar that appears temporarily. Like Passive/Agressive/Defensive with Go attack that target

But again it's less independant unit and more the war summons his/her loyal steed into battle to help aid in the fray for a time being... as well while you are right the idea would be cool to temp fight on a mount; it would either be a vanity flair item with nothing more than a simple waste of space for a slot [as I doubt they'd make it cool like Warlocks Metamorphisis :(], or it would be something to clunky that Blizz would clunk up and it'd not be worth the effort.

I mean you saw how they mucked up mounted combat; EG Occulus.

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Re: Request for Flesh Beast

Unread post by Worba » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:39 pm

See my post above - I think this would be a great fit for adding mounted combat to the game in some form beyond just the odd quest or daily, and without involving much complexity on the player's part (little to none in fact - what I proposed was really just a fancy "power up").

Edit: additional tweaks (darn you for putting this idea in my head Ryai) :P

1) (passive) Movement speed reduced to somewhere between maybe 115% and 140% to limit pvp abuse
2) (passive) Proc attack has a knockdown / spell interrupt component to reflect a horse or other large creature rearing up in a battle frenzy
3) (passive) Rider's Lance - when the warrior uses charge whilst mounted, the move gains a lingering debuff "Trampled!" in addition to the existing effects, to reflect that the target is beign impeded by thundering hooves/claws/etc

I dunno. I'm not stuck on this but it is interesting to speculate on...
Last edited by Worba on Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Request for Flesh Beast

Unread post by Warfish » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:39 pm

Worba wrote:Yeah I'm not a fan of using the argent tourny as a model for this - I was thinking more along these lines:

In its mounted (combat) state, I would imagine the warrior could receive some sort of buff like Ryai described (personal +sta boost for the extra horseflesh to soak up dmg, +kings due to feeling of inspiration it gives the group to be around a mounted knight or what have you), and the mount could also have a generic attack of some kind that procs off your own hits.

That way, you have something that's integrated and not complex
A pretty solid idea IMO, not a PEt, but entirely appropriate and (honestly) quite kick-butt looking to boot.

The only "Pet-esque" idea I've ever heard for Warriors that in my not-quite-humble estimation was even remotely decent previusly, was "Shield Bearers". I.e. two little armored squire-types bearing large shields to the fore of the Warrior, soaking up some damage and perhaps offerign a few DPS of retort.

But I like your mounted combat idea much better. I betcha though, if Warriros got that, a sizeable portion of the Hunetr Community whould be up in arms that THEY can't use their mounts to fight, given we're the "animal handling" class.

Can;t please everyone o' course.

(And no bonk needed, I love a good passionate discussion, on-topic or off).
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Re: Request for Flesh Beast

Unread post by Saturo » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:44 pm

The Rules of the Internet wrote:25. Relation to the original topic decreases with every single post.
xD

I think mounted combat overall was stupid. It makes no sense for me to have to ride a demolisher to kill that one guy, when my melee autoattack does more damage. Don't even start talking about Occ or Argent Tournament. Mounted combat was just a disappointment overall.

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Re: Request for Flesh Beast

Unread post by Worba » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:46 pm

Yes I am totally offtopic now, I know.

But I specifically stayed clear of making this a vehicle thing...

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Re: Request for Flesh Beast

Unread post by Ryai » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:51 pm

Well for right now think it'd be easier/simpler to just make a thread and see if Blizz bites for a summon at all, then we can work out the details of if it's a summon pet along the lines of Treants for Boomkin druids, or if it's a transformation pet along the lines of Warlock Metamorphisis [IE transform for 25-30 seconds into a mounted unit, no speedboosts but gains the ability of extra endurance, IE armor/stamina/Strength, to the war, or the party, but leaning towards War here], starting to see it more as a Prot war ability, if it's along the lines of metamorphisis. As it would be a bit op for a fury or arms war- and I meant Arms before, not fury. I get the two trees mixed up. Sorry :) Anyways it would be a bit op if the steed- not horse, steed people as tauren don't ride horses :p could occasionally shield the war from a blow or provide a knockback- Perhaps it;'s the same ability. A Knockback on normal mobs/players, an extra block/hit absorbsion [NO I CAN NOT SPELL ATM] on bosses.

Offtopic? What offtopic.

We're talking about BATTLE STEEEDS.

WE WERE ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT BATTLE STEEDS.

*completely ignores Flesh Beasts. Puts Flesh Beasts on Ignore List. Forever.*

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Re: Request for Flesh Beast

Unread post by Worba » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:57 pm

Ryai wrote:Well for right now think it'd be easier/simpler to just make a thread and see if Blizz bites for a summon at all, then we can work out the details of if it's a summon pet along the lines of Treants for Boomkin druids, or if it's a transformation pet along the lines of Warlock Metamorphisis [IE transform for 25-30 seconds into a mounted unit, no speedboosts but gains the ability of extra endurance, IE armor/stamina/Strength, to the war, or the party, but leaning towards War here], starting to see it more as a Prot war ability, if it's along the lines of metamorphisis. As it would be a bit op for a fury or arms war- and I meant Arms before, not fury. I get the two trees mixed up. Sorry :) Anyways it would be a bit op if the steed- not horse, steed people as tauren don't ride horses :p could occasionally shield the war from a blow or provide a knockback- Perhaps it;'s the same ability. A Knockback on normal mobs/players, an extra block/hit absorbsion [NO I CAN NOT SPELL ATM] on bosses.

Offtopic? What offtopic.

We're talking about BATTLE STEEEDS.

WE WERE ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT BATTLE STEEDS.

*completely ignores Flesh Beasts. Puts Flesh Beasts on Ignore List. Forever.*
YOU start the new thread. :P I only got into this whole long twisting crazy discussion because I am unable to stay away from an interesting debate (interesting debates to me are like shiny objects to crows... heck I don't even play a priest, shadow or otherwise).

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Re: Request for Flesh Beast

Unread post by Ryai » Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:09 pm

Worba wrote:YOU start the new thread. :P I only got into this whole long twisting crazy discussion because I am unable to stay away from an interesting debate (interesting debates to me are like shiny objects to crows... heck I don't even play a priest, shadow or otherwise).
I mean on the official forums, not here :p

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