Words with the Big GC

[Adam-Savage]

Here is something I dugg up on Warcraft Hunters Union.

I saw Ghostcrawler twice at BlizzCon (other than on panels) and he was like a geek rock star. A swarm of fans surrounded him, jostling each other to get their picture taken with him. Ghostcrawler was incredibly gracious and chatted with each person for a few seconds, asked what character they played, answered a quick question or two, and hammed it up for the camera. He seemed endlessly patient as he made his slow way across the bar.

More exciting than seeing him in the bar, however, was Saturday night when I bumped into him in the hotel hallway. We got to chatting, mostly about hunter stuff, and I had a chance to ask a handful of hunter questions.

Other than pleasant chitchat about the weather and Minnesota and life at Blizzard, here’s a few tidbits of information I learned about hunters.

Weapon Speed Normalization

One of the things we’ve been noticing as we try to unravel the strangely inaccurate shot formulas is that our shots appear to no longer be normalized for weapon speed. This means that if we have two weapons with the same dps, whichever one is slower will actually do more damage, and thus more dps, on our special shots (well, any of the special shots that use base damage, like Steady Shot, Arcane Shot, etc.).

I asked whether this was deliberate or something that slipped in, and Ghostcrawler said that he wasn’t 100% sure off the top of his head, but he thought it was deliberate. He said it would be somewhat controlled by the fact that Cataclysm ranged weapons don’t have much variation in their weapon speed. He compared it to rogues who he said also care about weapon speed, but just don’t have a ton of weapon speed choices on the gear end of things.

He then asked me what weapon speeds for ranged weapons currently were in Cataclysm, and of course it was my turn not to be sure off the top of my head. I’ve since looked it up, and indeed it’s a far narrower range, from 2.7 to 3.0. No more 2.2 or 1.7 or other crazy fast weapons out there, and generally the green quality ones tend to be the fastest.

Update: Ghostcrawler has since confirmed that was not deliberate! Normalization was accidentally removed and they will be making a change to normalize our shots — all shots except Scatter Shot will be normalized.

He also confirmed, by the way, that the tooltip formulas are indeed incorrect for many of the hunter shots. The reason is that they’re constantly tweaking some of those coefficients, so what’s on the server isn’t the same as what’s on the client tooltip. Sadly the actual tooltips wont be correctly updated until the Cataclysm launch patch, he thought.

Source

[Adam-Savage]

Multi-Shot and AoE

I briefly brought up our AoE situation and the vast difference in Multi-Shot across the specs. He did say that it was on the List to look at bringing BM aoe, and possibly MM, up a bit, though SV would likely continue to have the strongest aoe.
Signature Shot Damage

I talked to Ghostcrawler a bit about signature shot damage (Kill Command for BM, Chimera Shot for MM, and Explosive Shot for SV). With the recent buff, the signature shots are now all worth using… but it’s not necessarily obvious without doing a bunch of math. The problem is that Arcane Shot tends to still have better damage per focus, even if the overall dps of using it is lower (this dpf vs dps is something many hunters don’t consider). I’m concerned that we’re going to see newer hunters and hunters that don’t look online for information ignoring their signature shots in favor of the simpler all-arcane rotations.

Anyhow, I explained my opinion that the signature shots should be obviously worth using, intuitively worth using. They should be a no-brainer. I think we should slightly reduce the damage of Steady Shot, Cobra Shot, and Arcane Shot and really boost the heck outta those signature shots. There are other advantages of this — and disadvantages when it comes to kill command, but that’s the gist of it.

Ghostcrawler agreed that the shots should be obviously useful and used. He pointed out, however, that at 85 those shots were much farther ahead of arcane shot than they are at 80, but it was something they could look at if they were still worse damage per focus than arcane at 85.

Sadly, I’ve barely logged into the beta at all since 4.0.1 hit — I’ve been so busy working on 4.0.1 info, so I’ll have to go double check how the signature shots are doing at 85 these days.

Intimidation, Counterattack, and The List

I asked about Intimidation as the BM bonus ability, and whether there was a chance that it might be replaced with something cooler and more fitting to the identity of the BM tree. He said that he suspected that in a year from now Intimidation would no longer be the bonus ability of BM, but he wasn’t sure what would replace it. It’s on The List — and he then mentioned that Counterattack was as well.

Counterattack is a really strange talent these days, by the way, since we no longer have the talent that boosts our parry chance, an attack that procs off parries is substantially weaker.

Talking with Ghostcrawler, I got a strong impression of the vastness of the changes going on. The idea of having a list of hundreds or thousands of reported bugs — all of which have to be investigated to determine if they’re actually bugs — then fixed, and then the huge list of all the stuff that needed to get done for Cata launch, and then the huge wish list of all the things they’d like to do. And there is, I’m sure, lists like this for every class, for quests, every dungeon, gear, etc.

So it sounds like there are a few things they’ve just decided aren’t a high enough priority — because of course if they came up with a new talent to replace counterattack (that would require coding, testing, and potential re-balancing) then there’s something else on the list that would not get done.
Pet Crit Immunity

I asked Ghostcrawler about whether we’d have any way in Cataclysm to make our pets crit immune. To be honest, I really suspected that this was a deliberate move on Blizzard’s part to make sure our pets could not tank stuff in Cataclysm. However, this appears not to be the case!

We talked about crit immunity for a bit, and when I said something like “I know you don’t actually want us tanking current raid bosses…” and Ghostcrawler said something to the effect of, “No, but that’s really cool when you can do something really extreme, it’s fun when players find a way to do that.”

Ghostcrawler thought there was a pet talent to give our pets crit immunity, and I explained how it only gives us 4% crit reduction and we were using resilience to get the rest. Ghostcrawler said he thought that pets should probably have a way to get full crit immunity and actually stopped to pull out his blackberry and made some notes to talk to the team about it!

So it looks very, very probable that we’ll end up with some way — not sure how — to make our pets crit immune!

[Adam-Savage]

Pet Collars

While we were on the pet topic, I could not resist talking about the idea of collars for our pets — something I’ve blogged about before.

Ghostcrawler said that as long as it was jewelry it wasn’t that hard to do — it still required new coding, but as long as it didn’t change the appearance of the pets at all it wasn’t that bad. Apparently making any kind of gear that would show up on the pets, changing the model, is a massive, massive undertaking (there’s a LOT of pets after all). I nodded and posited that a pet collar clearly wouldn’t need to involve any graphical change.

He pointed out that it would only be worth doing if there was actually a difference in how people used them — if they implemented it and every single hunter just did the exact same thing on every pet then it’s pointless as a customization open (they may as well just increase pet stats by that amount).

I pointed out how we use different pets for vastly different things, and how we’d want to customize a pet for raiding would be very different from pvp which would be different from soloing which would be different from extreme soloing or pet tanking. And while we’d probably come up with a “best” solution for raiding, there’s probably be several different options for pvp and soloing — going with stats to complement your solo style or your pet choice.

I felt like he was warming to the idea, even getting a bit excited, and he talked about how that kind of customization would help further differentiate beloved hunter pets from warlock pets. We then went on a bit of a tangent about warlock pets.

In the end, I think the idea of pet collars may have a chance of happening. Certainly not before Cataclysm, but perhaps some day during Cataclysm, when they finally move down that list to Intimidation and Counterattack, they’ll have super awesome pet collars written down as well.
Until Next BlizzCon

And that was all the questions I managed to sneak in. Ghostcrawler got down to the lobby and was again swarmed under. We shook hands and went our separate ways. He to continue the endless quest of perfecting the best-looking class in the game, and me to stroll around a corner to let out the squeal of glee I had been holding in.

[SpiritBinder]

Ghostcrawler said that as long as it was jewelry it wasn’t that hard to do — it still required new coding, but as long as it didn’t change the appearance of the pets at all it wasn’t that bad. Apparently making any kind of gear that would show up on the pets, changing the model, is a massive, massive undertaking (there’s a LOT of pets after all). I nodded and posited that a pet collar clearly wouldn’t need to involve any graphical change.

Well, to be frank, I'd LOVE it to have a graphical effect on my pet, but not changing the model, in the way gear shows up. Have you ever noticed during bloodlust/heroism that your hands go all red and glowing,and even your pets paws or claws or jaws do too! Ever noticed the white Icepaw Bears walking around ZD, with cool blue ice, emitting from their paws?

That's where I think the "graphical Effect" may actually not be all that hard in do. Imagine A Collar that makes 10% of your Springpaw Lynxes's Attacks deal Fire Damage, Or has a proc chance to burn your target, and it runs around with little fiery paws, or Icy, Watery, Shadowy, Earthen, Molten!!!! ect ! ! !

Oh and you would also be able to write "Fluffy" it's collar tag incase it gets lost, well maybe

Now that's something I'd <3 to see

[Ryai]

While it is nice that some things did get answered and I now know where the elitist that screamed at me on the PTR for being a 'loser nub' basically for thinking fast weapons were better than slow weapons for hunters [seriously god it was a ptr], the last question quoted just left me .... a bit ... underwhelmed.

Really you corner the man, you finally get him into a bloody decent conversation, Person being quoted, and the last thing you talk about is basically Pet Jewelry?

-_- could have mentioned the hunter community are at their wits ends for hydras, stags and other currently untameable beasts of Azeroth.

[Kalliope]

That's fantastic!

This is the reason I grumble at people who badmouth GC. He's really on top of balance (as are the other devs, but since GC is the one we get to "know" at all, we can TELL he does).

Yay for the WHU rep too. Intelligent questions good! Pet collars essentially sound like a glyph for your pet, which is an interesting idea, though I agree that that wasn't the most exciting of the subjects broached. I'm happy to hear about crit immunities.

[Lisaara]

Wow! This is awesome! :3 I wouldn't mind a real pet collar being shown. Like it doesnt have to do anything. It can be just something as the hunter's signature mark.

[Mockingbird]

Imagine being him at that conference - it would be a weird combination of great (rock star!) and hell (everyone you speak to expects you to know everything about THEIR class that THEY are passionate about and have the answers ready, and a good proportion will be angry and/or rude about it).

[SpiritBinder]

Really you corner the man, you finally get him into a bloody decent conversation, Person being quoted, and the last thing you talk about is basically Pet Jewelry?

I know Pet Jewelry is not something that you may not have thought about, hell it's certainly not the 1st thing I would ask him, but it's probably gotten the best answer out of the lot of them imo. At least it showed some promise in possibly being able to customize our pets and their dps.

-_- could have mentioned the hunter community are at their wits ends for hydras, stags and other currently untameable beasts of Azeroth.

As for your question, Some may say that the last thing you talk about are some random untamable beasts. And that may not have been the 1st thing I would have asked him either, yet it does not make it any less important or interesting to your self or others... and clearly not here

[Anyia]

Thing is though, we have entire talent trees for our pets already. Not sure what a collar would bring that talents could not*.

*) While being realistic about the amount of effort involved.

[Mockingbird]

Realistically? A gem slot

I'm guessing best sockets are +haste or +AP for raiding, +stam for PvP/solo.

Edit:
Massively overpowered it would be, but what about an automatically-activating metagem slot?
That would excite and delight me

[Ryai]

I know Pet Jewelry is not something that you may not have thought about, hell it's certainly not the 1st thing I would ask him, but it's probably gotten the best answer out of the lot of them imo. At least it showed some promise in possibly being able to customize our pets and their dps.

Color be unimpressed tho but I'm not entirely thrilled about the option of A: repgrinding items for pets, B: farming mats for items for pets or C: farming random mobs, bosses or camping rares, for items for pets, such as this, as I don't think, if implimented to 'increase dps' be exactly the sort of thing that are really easy to obtain. And I doubt they would increase dps overall, haven't you seen what blizzard did to finally stop the damn cat and wolf elitism? All dps pets are normalized. All. So I'm pretty sure they're not gonna put in a new trinket just for hunters to start farming for, to increase pet dps >_>

At most it'd probably be non exciting things like 'increases pet threat' or 'your pet sparkles' or 'Mopsy the Devilsaur now has bunny ears on'. Then these would probably be accessable from Breane.. whatever, the gnome npc in dal with the stablemaster.

And the other reason I'm not impressed is if you're saying the best response is to someone's query about dressing our pets up with collars and stuff.

I'd rather have other stuff done first, fixed and sorted, then someone throwing vanity items into the mix.

[Mockingbird]

And the other reason I'm not impressed is if you're saying the best response is to someone's query about dressing our pets up with collars and stuff.

I'd rather have other stuff done first, fixed and sorted, then someone throwing vanity items into the mix.

The best response, in the opinion of another poster here, from those given by a man walking down a hotel hallway being grilled about specific issues for a single class with no notes or any othe other stuff he'd use to respond... And he was only asked about it AFTER all the other issues. Of course that response will be a nicer one - it's the one where he can honestly say "I do or don't like this idea" without having to double check whether it's a feature currently under investigation, a feature/bug that's known, part of the design or an accidental outcome etc etc etc.

And to be honest, if you hate grinding rep/farming mobs/beating bosses for items which upgrade your character's performance... That's most of WoW's non-social endgame right there.

[Antares]

I think Frostheim is angry with me...

[Mockingbird]

Why do you think that?

[Ryai]

The best response, in the opinion of another poster here, from those given by a man walking down a hotel hallway being grilled about specific issues for a single class with no notes or any othe other stuff he'd use to respond... And he was only asked about it AFTER all the other issues. Of course that response will be a nicer one - it's the one where he can honestly say "I do or don't like this idea" without having to double check whether it's a feature currently under investigation, a feature/bug that's known, part of the design or an accidental outcome etc etc etc.

Well the other issues weren't really issues, outside of pet crit immunity and intimidation; everything else evidently was already being looked into [true or false we don't know], I'm just miffed that the last parting question was about basically, in the future can we make our pets shiny- instead of there are more shiny pets hunters are interested in. Getting a somewhat solid answer on this would make more than enough day for anyone over the possibility of basically some point in the future we may be able to get shinies to decorate our pets.

I'm not damning them or anything I'm just a bit exasperated that this of all things was the parting question/query.

And to be honest, if you hate grinding rep/farming mobs/beating bosses for items which upgrade your character's performance... That's most of WoW's non-social endgame right there.

Actually no, I've gotten away with not rep grinding for a while now on several alts- it's not real endgame unless I choose to make it my endgame, but you know nice enough of you to toss out my concerns of FORCED rep grinding/questing and not the kind you can choose to do or not to do. IE like; you want Sons of Hol'dir but you're forced to do the most asinine prequest chain there ever was.

And rep grinding wasn't my only concern, it was the ones being held within raids and such things, if they do make DPS increasing trinkets for pets, because then not only are you having to farm and grind for yourself but you have to for your pet because if you don't yada yada yada elitism back. IE if you don't have [Spikey Purple Glowing Collar Of Doom] attached to [Decked out Devilsaur] ur a scrub, sort of attitude.

That's the other reason why I don't want stat enhancing pet shinies added to the game, do you understand my point now?

[Antares]

I sent him a link to some pet tests on here and he was less than impressed. He seemed a little...Scalding...in his response.

[SpiritBinder]

do you understand my point now?

No... I don't.

Ok, let me get this straight.

I'm not entirely thrilled about the option of A: repgrinding items for pets, B: farming mats for items for pets or C: farming random mobs, bosses or camping rares, for items for pets, such as this, as I don't think, if implimented to 'increase dps' be exactly the sort of thing that are really easy to obtain.

So you don't want to do it because it's too hard, because you think it should be a hard thing to get, which you don't want to do? And this is only IF, this random question about a pet collar, that someone wrote their opinion about on a forum that you don't like, actually gets implemented.

I won't like it if they do make DPS increasing trinkets for pets, because then not only are you having to farm and grind for yourself but you have to for your pet because if you don't yada yada yada elitism back.

So you don't want to be an elitist, because they yada yada yada, yet why are you around them, listening to them yada yada yada, because you don't want to be an elitist. Is it always like this with you?

I'm just miffed that the last parting question was about basically, in the future can we make our pets shiny- instead of there are more shiny pets hunters are interested in.

So your having a tanty about someone, you've never meet, asking someone who you've never meet, a question that they wanted to ask, but it wasn't the one you wanted them to ask.... Riiiiiight.

FYI, like my opinion, your opinion is worth no more than the opinion of the person that asked the question. Did you see me go "Omg, what a dumb question, Mine I had was way better!" errrr no.

Listen, its a game, clearly you don't take it that seriously if your not interested in the whole "elitist" thing, and that's fine. But remember, it's not your game and you play it with everyone else. Maybe you should chill out and enjoy it, it's a GAME.... that's what it's there for.

If not, have a cup of concrete and harden the **** up.... seriously.

[Ryai]

*scratches head*

*tries to understand*

So you don't want to do it because it's too hard, because you think it should be a hard thing to get, which you don't want to do? And this is only IF, this random question about a pet collar, that someone wrote their opinion about on a forum that you don't like, actually gets implemented.

I'm talking about if it becomes a DPS boosting device. And if it was implimented the way I think it would be, IE like relics, librams and sigels, you would have to upgrade every tier. That's not something I would really look forward too- and honestly would you? Besides we've seen dorkier stuff be implimented ingame, I have a right to be slightly concerned.

So you don't want to be an elitist, because they yada yada yada, yet why are you around them, listening to them yada yada yada, because you don't want to be an elitist. Is it always like this with you?

No, I don't like elitists, I never said I was one nor wasn't nor wanted to be nor not wanted to be one. I dislike them because I have recieved almost constant abuse for being BM, people allowed me to die, people harrassed me to respecc, and even other hunters rubbed their dps in my face whenever I was grouped in a pug with a marks or an SV. I was also not allowed in several VoA runs because I was BM. This is why I want to avoid another series of events like this, which dps boosting items could bring about.

*facepalm*

So your having a tanty about someone, you've never meet, asking someone who you've never meet, a question that they wanted to ask, but it wasn't the one you wanted them to ask.... Riiiiiight.

If we're allowed to have opinions over people asking if Blizz can make Mastiffs more fierce then I can have an opinion over a question of vanity for our pets.

Listen, its a game, clearly you don't take it that seriously if your not interested in the whole "elitist" thing, and that's fine. But remember, it's not your game and you play it with everyone else. Maybe you should chill out and enjoy it, it's a GAME.... that's what it's there for.

I don't think you grasp what elitism really is dear, and I'll just leave it at that.

[Worba]

-_- could have mentioned the hunter community are at their wits ends for hydras, stags and other currently untameable beasts of Azeroth.

As for your question, Some may say that the last thing you talk about are some random untamable beasts. And that may not have been the 1st thing I would have asked him either, yet it does not make it any less important or interesting to your self or others... and clearly not here [/color]

Agreed. Not every hunter is interested in tamable hydras or stags; to many that subject is just as peripheral as the question of pet collars.