Treat others with respect. Report, don't respond. Read the complete forum rules.
I told him the Wolf is still the highest DPS and we talked back and forth for a while about it, both holding our positions (he still believes a Wasp would be better).
Since I like to research and test things out (and I'd love if I could run with a different pet in a raid other than my wolf) I've been playing around with my spreadsheet and doing some research, part of which includes looking for input here.
My spreadsheet indicates that using a Wasp a 61 dps loss over the Wolf, so it's noticeable but not massive. Which leads me to wonder if the constant armour reduction of Sting might be beneficial to all the physical DPS in the raid and thus be a bit more productive than the lost theoretical 60 DPS. Chances are, I wouldn't notice much of a Recount difference at all between the two pets.
The other issue that I'm looking at is that Furious Howl has the same Focus cost as Sting (20) but is on a 40 second CD, while Sting is on a 6 second CD, meaning Sting is going cast a lot more often than Furious Howl, leading to a greater Focus use which could lead to a) an out-of-Focus pet, diminishing DPS or b) requiring me to spec 2 points into Go For The Throat rather than 1, which means taking away from somewhere else, again, with the potential result of lost DPS.
So my questions to the forum are do any of you have raiding experience with a Wasp, and whether you do or do not, have you any theorycrafting input, observations, corrections and so forth. Or anything along those lines?
- Illustrious Master Hunter
- Posts: 16010
- Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:07 pm
- Realm: Wyrmrest Accord US
- Gender: Female
- Location: Alberta, Canada
I used to think that his Armor Reduction ability was awesome, however I believe the problem with it is that it doesn't stack with other similar abilities, so a lot of the time it's not worth it. I'm not positive on that though.
These days my wasp mostly hangs around in my Stable until I feel like bringing him out just for show.
- Guild Master
- Posts: 3485
- Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:38 pm
- Realm: US Grizzly Hills, Deathwing, Wyrmrest Accord
- Gender: Wink wink.
- Location: Wandering aimlessly under the effect of the Curse of Burgy BlackheaLET'S BUCKLE SOME SWASH!!
Anansi wrote:So my questions to the forum are do any of you have raiding experience with a Wasp, and whether you do or do not, have you any theorycrafting input, observations, corrections and so forth. Or anything along those lines?
But seriously, I haven't used a wasp in a raid scenario yet. If the group has a druid though, who can toss up faerie fire, I think a wasp's poison doesn't stack with it.
Wasps are not bad for dps, like stated already their sting has a really short cool down, so it can be used alot. And I have always been one two spec two points in go for the throat. At end game you crit so dam often to begin with, in addition to talents that make your bread and butter shots crit close or above fifty percent of the time. The two points is certainly a dps upgrade, depending on ones spec however, you may or may not have the two points for gftt. Considering on a pet like the wasp with its short sting CD, and smack, every single time they gain focus, they will have some special ability up to use, and it's instant +damage that you don't have to micro manage either, when your pets gain focus from gftt.
The few times I have needed a change of pace and tame a wolf for instances, I did notice my overall damage contribution was higher using the wolf, over my wasp. But not a night and day difference, and not a big enough difference that it would make me want to run with a wolf for pve, over my wasp which is one of my favorite pets. But if your an optimizer, then yeah the wolf for now is still the best pet for raids/instances.
- Posts: 18809
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:21 pm
- Gender: Mortally impaired geekgirl
- Location: My secret lair on Skullcrusher Mountain.
Moderation note: Saturo is banned from all forums except the RP forum, and only allowed there until the current RP thread ends.
- Grand Master Hunter
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:57 am
- Realm: Nordrassil
- Gender: Male
Sig made by the Wonderful Serenith!
"You cannot judge me, I am Justice itself! We were meant for more than this, to protect the innocent. But, if our precious laws bind you all to inaction, then I will no longer stand as your brother." - Tyrael
* Druid [Faerie Fire] / [Faerie Fire (Feral)]: -5%, also prevents stealth.
* Hunter [Sting]: Wasp ability, -5%, also prevents stealth.
* Warlock [Curse of Weakness]: -5%, also reduces melee attack power, each warlock can only have one active curse per target.
# Major (stacks with minor)
* Hunter [Acid Spit]: Worm (Exotic Hunter pet) ability, -10%, stacks twice.
* Rogue [Expose Armor]: -4% per application, stacks up to 5 times.
* Warrior [Sunder Armor]: -4% per application, stacks up to 5 times.
Copypasted from WoWwiki. Sting WILL stack with Sunder and Expose Armor, at least.
I prefer running with a wasp, personally. Not all raids have access to a feral druid or a warlock willing to throw Weakness instead of a DPS curse, and I'm willing to sacrifice a /maybe/ 40 DPS difference to benefit the metric ton of DKs, rogues and retpallies I'm normally grouped with. In the end it really is just a matter of taste. Which you use will depend on individual group makeup if you want to be the most beneficial to your raid.
In 5mans, it's exceedingly rare that you'll get someone doing the -5% armor debuff that isn't you. I rarely see anyone using wasps on Wyrmrest or in any pug I've been in. Everyone has wolves, and usually the (opinion) utterly hideous northrend Saberworgs (/opinion). Having a pastel blue wasp is a little different for my battlegroup.
My raids tend not to make use of any of the minor debuffs so maybe it'd be worth trying out a Wasp for a bit to see if there's an appreciable difference, especially if I've got a physical DPS-heavy group.
I run with 1 in GftT right now, and unbuffed I sit at a 53% crit so it's higher in a raid environment. Playing around with the spreadsheet shows a DPS loss in 2/2 given what I'd have to take away from to get that 2/2.Tonywow wrote: And I have always been one two spec two points in go for the throat. At end game you crit so dam often to begin with, in addition to talents that make your bread and butter shots crit close or above fifty percent of the time. The two points is certainly a dps upgrade, depending on ones spec however, you may or may not have the two points for gftt. Considering on a pet like the wasp with its short sting CD, and smack, every single time they gain focus, they will have some special ability up to use, and it's instant +damage that you don't have to micro manage either, when your pets gain focus from gftt.
The same spreadsheet shows approximately a 50 DPS loss with a Wasp over the Wolf (and I don't use that horrid sabreworg model! I've got the barking Prairie Wolf from Mulgore - the old style Wolf models are by far the best) so it may be worth contributing that extra debuff.
Definitely all food for thought, thanks guys for all the details and observations!