Xuen the White Tiger

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Re: Xuen the White Tiger

Unread post by Qraljar » Sat May 25, 2013 11:56 am

Doctress wrote:
Zhinru wrote:
Doctress wrote:And that reason is a problem in my opinion. Honestly it's kind of a crappy reason that's just thrown out there when there's no justifications for it.
Why is it a "crappy reason"? What other reason you need to have a beast be tamable? All pets of one family are identical, looks are everything for them.
You may not think its unfair but it really is. Xuen is directly tied to MONKS not hunters so to take that from them is completely unfair.
Why is it unfair? I'm not taking anything from anyone, monks would still have their Xuen. If that would do anything to anyone, it would only give more people what they want. Why do you care what others are getting when you still have what you want to have?

You shouldn't tame a god or its mates? Tell it to Loque'nahak. That ship has sailed long ago, friend.
First off, yes the reason IS crappy. It's why people still clamor for dragons because they look beast like.

Second off, that'd be like giving hunters demons as pets. You're stealing what makes a class unique.

Third off, Har'koa and Loque are LOA. Which are not the same as God's they're MUCH lesser forms. So you can't justify it.

Lastly, I think I'm done with this topic. I'm seeing why it makes me mad all over again. It's the same I want so I should have it attitude like it was with Malorne all over again. So I'm out.


I find the fact that you are mad to begin with unreasonable. Sorry, but I think that what you are pointing out is what you are supporting, but only on the other end of the spectrum. We as a community need to be less "me-me-me", not just hunters. You're not demotivating it; you're supporting it by saying Xuen should remain restricted to monks. Sorry, but it's a bit of a double standard. :/


I think the community would do well to share more with each other instead of only wanting things for themselves. This is also why I think (aside from it being cool and making sense) that unholy DKs should have a 'tame pet'-like functioning control undead and demonology warlocks/maybe all specs the same with enslave demon. Also, I don't get how you can think "because I like it" or "because it's cool" is a crappy reason, much less act like it's fact. After all, don't we play the game for enjoyment? That's why it's a game. If it gives us enjoyment, then it serves its purpose, and no other argument would even be needed.


Maybe I'm that easy about it because I'm not -that- invested. I don't mind it if the Xuen model remains monk-exclusive or if it becomes a pet. I guess it'd make a cool cat spirit beast, but that's about it. I'm not that bothered about it personally. What bothers me though is how you've become so invested in the discussion that you can't accept others having other thoughts about it. It's starting to sound as if you think everything is factual from your standpoint. Now I realize that isn't the truth, but tone down on it a bit and try to allow others to have their own opinions Doctress. I've seen this from you a fair few times already; please refrain from it.
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Re: Xuen the White Tiger

Unread post by Silivren » Sat May 25, 2013 12:19 pm

I'm sorry but YOU don't know me. NOW I am angry. This topic shouldn't have been brought up to begin with. It's been brought up MANY TIMES BEFORE. I never said that others could havent their own opinions. My point is that I've noticed hunters as of late are "I want this or I need this or if so and so can have it why can't I?" and that is completely selfish. Let other classes have what makes them special and stop always clamoring for more when they have so much. And I'm sorry but YOU don't get to police me when people like me who actually want other classes to keep what makes them special to their class only are the ones targeted. I realize it's a game but what's the point of classes if everyone's the same.

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Re: Xuen the White Tiger

Unread post by Castile » Sat May 25, 2013 12:19 pm

Qraljar wrote:
I think the community would do well to share more with each other instead of only wanting things for themselves. This is also why I think (aside from it being cool and making sense) that unholy DKs should have a 'tame pet'-like functioning control undead and demonology warlocks/maybe all specs the same with enslave demon. Also, I don't get how you can think "because I like it" or "because it's cool" is a crappy reason, much less act like it's fact. After all, don't we play the game for enjoyment? That's why it's a game. If it gives us enjoyment, then it serves its purpose, and no other argument would even be needed.


Maybe I'm that easy about it because I'm not -that- invested. I don't mind it if the Xuen model remains monk-exclusive or if it becomes a pet. I guess it'd make a cool cat spirit beast, but that's about it. I'm not that bothered about it personally. What bothers me though is how you've become so invested in the discussion that you can't accept others having other thoughts about it. It's starting to sound as if you think everything is factual from your standpoint. Now I realize that isn't the truth, but tone down on it a bit and try to allow others to have their own opinions Doctress. I've seen this from you a fair few times already; please refrain from it.
See i totally disagree with "sharing" everything....I like classes to have unique things, thats what makes them different and fun to play. If we all had the same abilities then what would be the point of classes in the first place? No other classes should tame anything imo, thats a hunter thing. Like demons are a warlock thing and so on and so forth. And yeah "because i want it" is a lame reason. To take something that has lore and story behind it and make it a pet it should have a good reason else you'll piss off alot of lore lovers and monks. You can't have everything all the time.

Doctross is just passionate about this topic and others in this thread have already agreed with her. I don't think she's trying to shut anyone down...its just a bit of a broken record discussion thats gone around a fair few times before.

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Re: Xuen the White Tiger

Unread post by Qraljar » Sat May 25, 2013 12:39 pm

Doctress wrote:I'm sorry but YOU don't know me. NOW I am angry. This topic shouldn't have been brought up to begin with. It's been brought up MANY TIMES BEFORE. I never said that others could havent their own opinions. My point is that I've noticed hunters as of late are "I want this or I need this or if so and so can have it why can't I?" and that is completely selfish. Let other classes have what makes them special and stop always clamoring for more when they have so much. And I'm sorry but YOU don't get to police me when people like me who actually want other classes to keep what makes them special to their class only are the ones targeted. I realize it's a game but what's the point of classes if everyone's the same.

All right. I'm done. There is no discussing anything with you, it seems. I wasn't overly harsh. I was just saying it would be better if you were to tone down on the "factual" stuff a bit, such as telling other people their arguments are stupid. So please get rid of that hostility. >_>


And that's a big-ass fallacy there. Just because one or few models are shared doesn't mean that there will suddenly be no classes between classes anymore, nor does it dispute my argument that you can't call others selfish if what you are supporting is also a selfish mindset, just on the other side of the spectrum. I'm not necessary saying your mindset is bad (unless you force it on others), I'm just saying that you can't strengthen it with claims of "selfish" this or "entitled" that as it sounds like a double standard at that point.
Castile wrote:
Qraljar wrote:
I think the community would do well to share more with each other instead of only wanting things for themselves. This is also why I think (aside from it being cool and making sense) that unholy DKs should have a 'tame pet'-like functioning control undead and demonology warlocks/maybe all specs the same with enslave demon. Also, I don't get how you can think "because I like it" or "because it's cool" is a crappy reason, much less act like it's fact. After all, don't we play the game for enjoyment? That's why it's a game. If it gives us enjoyment, then it serves its purpose, and no other argument would even be needed.


Maybe I'm that easy about it because I'm not -that- invested. I don't mind it if the Xuen model remains monk-exclusive or if it becomes a pet. I guess it'd make a cool cat spirit beast, but that's about it. I'm not that bothered about it personally. What bothers me though is how you've become so invested in the discussion that you can't accept others having other thoughts about it. It's starting to sound as if you think everything is factual from your standpoint. Now I realize that isn't the truth, but tone down on it a bit and try to allow others to have their own opinions Doctress. I've seen this from you a fair few times already; please refrain from it.
See i totally disagree with "sharing" everything....I like classes to have unique things, thats what makes them different and fun to play. If we all had the same abilities then what would be the point of classes in the first place? No other classes should tame anything imo, thats a hunter thing. Like demons are a warlock thing and so on and so forth. And yeah "because i want it" is a lame reason. To take something that has lore and story behind it and make it a pet it should have a good reason else you'll piss off alot of lore lovers and monks. You can't have everything all the time.

Doctross is just passionate about this topic and others in this thread have already agreed with her. I don't think she's trying to shut anyone down...its just a bit of a broken record discussion thats gone around a fair few times before.

It's okay to have your opinion, but it's a different thing to force it down the throats of people who disagree and deem their arguments for wanting or liking the idea of having something "stupid" or "faulty" because of your own opinion on it. And if you can't discuss in a level-headed manner, quite frankly, you shouldn't be discussing it at all.


That said, I was not saying anyone should share all the assets with another class. I'm saying that you can't call others selfish and entitled when your own opinion also contains traces of the same. Like I mentioned before: double standard. You can't use it to strengthen your own argument; but that doesn't mean I think EVERYTHING should be shared with other classes. I am against class homogenization, but that has nothing to do with the (imo misinterpreted) argument in question.


I won't digress by continuing or harping on too much about the hunter tame for undead mechanics, but my opinion is that it's a good idea that makes sense lore-wise too. The warlocks and death knights we play are nigh top-tier, and there are way weaker death knights that can control/raise several undead creatures. I think it wouldn't take anything away from hunters at all if demonology warlocks and unholy dks were capable of permanently controlling a certain undead or enslaving a demon for more than 5 minutes. It makes sense in lore on top of everything.


Besides, I don't think there was a lot of "great lore" behind Har'koa. I know he's not a deity, but a Loa is no small deal either, or even a mate of a Loa.
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Re: Xuen the White Tiger

Unread post by Wain » Sat May 25, 2013 9:40 pm

Ok, I'm not going to lock this topic, but:

1. if you've had your say already, leave it at that.
2. everyone has a right to their opinion here. Nobody is selfish or unreasonable for either wanting that model to be tameable, or not to be tameable.
3. it's a repeat topic, but we get those all the time. Not everyone is around to have read the previous discussions.
4. a lot of the discussion around gods and spirits and loa etc. is semantics. That doesn't mean you can't use it in your argument, but keep in mind things like this aren't always the way Blizzard views their lore, and they aren't always consistent anyway, so any conclusions based on these aren't hard and fast, just ideas.
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Re: Xuen the White Tiger

Unread post by AdamSavage » Sun May 26, 2013 2:40 am

I just thought the model was cool.. I didn't think to look around to see if the topic had been brought up or was buried somewhere in a post. I didn't expect or want it to turn into a online shouting matching.
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Re: Xuen the White Tiger

Unread post by Wain » Sun May 26, 2013 8:44 pm

No, it was perfectly valid to post. The last discussions were probably back on the beta forum!


Though I'm moving this topic to pet discussion. It's probably better off there.
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Re: Xuen the White Tiger

Unread post by Ziarre » Fri May 31, 2013 4:03 am

I'd like him and think there could be perfectly fair ways for both monks and hunters to have him. This is a stance I've taken since beta, and I do not feel I'm stepping out of bounds in desiring him. I'm not demanding him, it's not a dealbreaker for me...but it sure would be nice, and sometimes nice things happen.
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Re: Xuen the White Tiger

Unread post by Demonicow » Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:21 pm

after hearing the arguments on this topic i agree there are a few things if not more classes should have unique to themselves and while i agree it would be nice to have the xuen skin tamable it just wouldnt be right,

however as it was said before talbuks if made tamable would not pose a problem and as far as i am aware neither would a zhevra, Thunder Liazard, Clefthoof or a Kunchong.

the ratio at which pets shrink when tamed or grow in the case of tiny pets although uncommon i see would take care of overgrown pets(even though i like overgrown pets :cry: ), if sometime in the future blizzard replaces the talent that invokes xuen maybe hunters could have a tamable skin like his until then tho i say leave it to the monks!
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Re: Xuen the White Tiger

Unread post by Slickrock » Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:12 pm

While I don't mind him staying as shammie only... three things:

1) I don't really see what lore that is to specifically tie him to the Shammies.

2) What about the other Celestial models? Fine, let the Shammies have that one, give us one of the others.

3) I think this comes up a lot because the Celestial models were by far the best "beast" models added in Mists, and hunters got none of them, while Shammies did get one. Overall, while a lot of models were added, and some new families were added, there wasn't anything that's "wow" out of any of them. Silkworms and porcupines are very niche, and many of the other models were retreads. If some "wow" models had been added in Mists, we might not have this discussion again and again.

Overall pet battles got a lot more love (and continue to) compared to hunter pets.
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Re: Xuen the White Tiger

Unread post by Tilo » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:22 pm

It looks like a neat model, but I think either way it goes along with getting a rare pet; if it's opened up to hunters then everyone will have one, like when the new porcupines came out, soon as servers came up I tamed the first one I saw, then over that week everyone was sporting them... now hardly anyone is sporting them, it's a fad... but I wouldn't go as much to say we're entitled to this neat model.

I mean think of what, Warlocks, yeah they get a book that changes their demons to look cooler, I don't recall any hunter saying that we should get a talent or glyph that makes our pets armored... every class has their own unique nich that's just for them, just like we can now have fifty pets most of which may not see the light of day.

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Re: Xuen the White Tiger

Unread post by Slickrock » Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:02 pm

I actually miss the days of three stable slots
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Re: Xuen the White Tiger

Unread post by Wain » Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:32 am

Slickrock wrote:While I don't mind him staying as shammie only... three things:
1) I don't really see what lore that is to specifically tie him to the Shammies.
2) What about the other Celestial models? Fine, let the Shammies have that one, give us one of the others.
3) I think this comes up a lot because the Celestial models were by far the best "beast" models added in Mists, and hunters got none of them, while Shammies did get one. Overall, while a lot of models were added, and some new families were added, there wasn't anything that's "wow" out of any of them. Silkworms and porcupines are very niche, and many of the other models were retreads. If some "wow" models had been added in Mists, we might not have this discussion again and again.
Overall pet battles got a lot more love (and continue to) compared to hunter pets.
Ah, now I understand what you meant by Shaman getting the best pet.

The Xuen model was given to Monks, not Shaman.
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Re: Xuen the White Tiger

Unread post by SpiritBinder » Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:35 am

Slickrock wrote:While I don't mind him staying as shammie only... three things:

1) I don't really see what lore that is to specifically tie him to the Shammies.

2) What about the other Celestial models? Fine, let the Shammies have that one, give us one of the others.

3) I think this comes up a lot because the Celestial models were by far the best "beast" models added in Mists, and hunters got none of them, while Shammies did get one. Overall, while a lot of models were added, and some new families were added, there wasn't anything that's "wow" out of any of them. Silkworms and porcupines are very niche, and many of the other models were retreads. If some "wow" models had been added in Mists, we might not have this discussion again and again.

Overall pet battles got a lot more love (and continue to) compared to hunter pets.
1) and 2)... What Wain said. :)

3) The best beast models is a subjective term, I personally adore the water striders, and of the 4 celestials, only the tiger and crane share a link with tameable family types. As for wow, the Dire horns and Spectral Porcs were pretty wow imo (but again subjective)

"and many of the other models were retreads" retreads?

And of course pet battles got a lot more love (and continue to) compared to hunter pets, it was a brand new feature for MOP. In fact, battle pets never even existed before MOP, they were just companion pets. That and everyone, of every class, and every level can participate in Pet Battles, it's nothing like hunter pets, in anyway...
Apples =/= Oranges. :|

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Re: Xuen the White Tiger

Unread post by Airrana » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:34 pm

Retread = recolored models

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Re: Xuen the White Tiger

Unread post by Alex » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:22 am

I love Xuen. Like I really, really love Xuen. And I completely agree with Ziarre. As much as I want him, not getting him is okay with me because then everyone and their pet monkey would tame him and he'd be everywhere and that just kills the shine that he has.

Once you see something so many times running around, it sort of gets rather lackluster, y'know?

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Re: Xuen the White Tiger

Unread post by Qinni » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:45 am

I wouldn't mind seeing the model but in different colors. To much blue in the spirit beast family...Picasso went all Blue period on spirit beasts. As for all the talk about classes sharing or borrowing stuff from each other kinda already happens. Everyone has a skill or something similar to it of late. Pretty much every class can summon or have a pet by now.

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Re: Xuen the White Tiger

Unread post by Nachtwulf » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:17 pm

I'd like to see a Xuen-like cat as a SB, although I too agree that it should be a different color (green, for my druthers).

A few things brought up are kind of fallacious arguments against it though: let's see, 'giving demons to hunters'.
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Up until very recently these WERE demons (in the WoW RPG, for what that's worth, the darkhound is the first demon a warlock learns to summon.) So that argument doesn't wash.

Also, there are minipets of the Celestials coming out (sans the yak, which makes me sad.) So everyone will have tiny Xuens, if nothing else.

Also, I don't see how Loa are "lesser beings" than the Celestials. In point of fact, there's only one actual 'god' mentioned in WoW at all, and that's Elune (and people keep saying she's just a naaru so who even knows anymore). WoW is a world of powerful spirits like Cenarius and Chi-ji but given their demonstrations of lack of power (Xuen makes judgemental mistakes, Chi-ji and the other two get overrun by the shas' minions), I certainly can't say they've got any more juju than Har'koa or Rhunok. It's been made very clear that they COULD die, it's just you get to them sooner than you could most of the loa in Zul'drak (for example).

Nothing in this game is exclusive. Abilities of a class that are 'cool' or 'signature' are often reskins of abilities of other classes. I'd say calling the spirit wolves is fundamentally the same biscuit as calling Xuen (shamans vs monks), or even Stampede (especially now that they've wiped all the coolness off it and it's just a dull dps cooldown). Sure, they LOOK different, but basically, they're all the same ability, used the same way.

(also, I too wasn't particularly thrilled with the technicolor spirit porcupines, although Yet Another Cat probably wouldn'tve been the answer either. Why can't we get a ghost yak?)

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Re: Xuen the White Tiger

Unread post by Eternallylostx » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:53 am

Also, I don't see how Loa are "lesser beings" than the Celestials. In point of fact, there's only one actual 'god' mentioned in WoW at all, and that's Elune (and people keep saying she's just a naaru so who even knows anymore). WoW is a world of powerful spirits like Cenarius and Chi-ji but given their demonstrations of lack of power (Xuen makes judgemental mistakes, Chi-ji and the other two get overrun by the shas' minions), I certainly can't say they've got any more juju than Har'koa or Rhunok. It's been made very clear that they COULD die, it's just you get to them sooner than you could most of the loa in Zul'drak (for example).
The Light is also mentioned, but at least Elune can be given a face a proper name. Theres also the old gods, If im not mistaken. I'm not much in all around lore, but upper beings are a thing I do enjoy reading. There are other "god like" beings mentioned in lore, not as high as Eune, but that's like a different religion, belief, not all races praise her, only the night elves and few others believe her. People like Priests and paladins believe the Light, but death knights don't. Monks and pandaren, I believe, worship the Celesitals. Hunters don't quite have a belief other then what their race decides it best, but I think beliefs are more class specific then race, because a class' abilities are centered around that being. Such as Monks invoking Xuen, or Paladins using healing spells. These beings are able to die as well, such as the dragon aspects and old gods, but they've made it clear they won't directly kill a old god off, but I think they've said it's possible; they just won't. If blizzard decides to think a hunter can just ignore a belief a tame a god, that's a bit over the edge IMHO. It's like a god modder in rp, "hey look at me, and like hundreds of other hunters, we all have YOUR GOD tamed as a pet." That must've been how some trolls felt, that a mate of their loa can be tamed.

Sorry if that seems a bit everywhere it's late. But I just decided to throw my 2 cents in.

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Re: Xuen the White Tiger

Unread post by SpiritBinder » Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:27 am

Qinni wrote:I wouldn't mind seeing the model but in different colors.
I did this one quite some time ago, can't remember what thread it was in, but I think it was something similar. :)

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ad this one just for giggles ;)

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