Some pets have unique attack speeds again -Broken Tooth etc.
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- Bendak
- Expert Hunter
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Some pets have unique attack speeds again -Broken Tooth etc.
Hunters who played in vanilla will remember that some pets had different attack speeds before Blizzard normalized it. Well, that is back in 8.0. No one really noticed because damage is normalized. Attack speed turns out to be mostly a flavor thing, with one exception.
The standard attack speed is 2.0, or one attack every 2 seconds (found on like 98% of pets), and we've found pets ranging from 0.5 to 4.0. The biggest outliers are Deth'tilac (0.5) and Chimaeron (4.0).
Again, the damage is the same between these pets. Deth'tilac attacks 8 times faster than Chimaeron, but Chimaeron hits 8 times harder than Deth'tilac. The reason Deth'tilac is an exception to this is Frenzy stacks bring him down to the hard cap of 0.25 attack speed, which makes him lose some damage for BM (but not necessarily for SV and MM). All other pets seem to deal the same DPS, or are "slow" enough to not hit this cap.
Any pets that had unique speeds from vanilla that still exist (i.e. Broken Tooth) seem to retain those original speeds and we've been finding tons of post-Vanilla pets with weird speeds. No idea if this is a bug or intended, but either way it doesn't seem to be hurting anything... especially having gone unnoticed for so long. If this does turn out to be intended and/or left alone, it might be worth building up some kind of list of all the unique attack speeds.
I have a post about it here with all the details including sims and some of the pets found so far, as well as how to find pet attack speeds quickly yourself:
http://eyesofthebeast.com/2018/08/broke ... nce-again/
The standard attack speed is 2.0, or one attack every 2 seconds (found on like 98% of pets), and we've found pets ranging from 0.5 to 4.0. The biggest outliers are Deth'tilac (0.5) and Chimaeron (4.0).
Again, the damage is the same between these pets. Deth'tilac attacks 8 times faster than Chimaeron, but Chimaeron hits 8 times harder than Deth'tilac. The reason Deth'tilac is an exception to this is Frenzy stacks bring him down to the hard cap of 0.25 attack speed, which makes him lose some damage for BM (but not necessarily for SV and MM). All other pets seem to deal the same DPS, or are "slow" enough to not hit this cap.
Any pets that had unique speeds from vanilla that still exist (i.e. Broken Tooth) seem to retain those original speeds and we've been finding tons of post-Vanilla pets with weird speeds. No idea if this is a bug or intended, but either way it doesn't seem to be hurting anything... especially having gone unnoticed for so long. If this does turn out to be intended and/or left alone, it might be worth building up some kind of list of all the unique attack speeds.
I have a post about it here with all the details including sims and some of the pets found so far, as well as how to find pet attack speeds quickly yourself:
http://eyesofthebeast.com/2018/08/broke ... nce-again/
Eyes of the Beast - My Hunter Blog
Re: Some pets have unique attack speeds again -Broken Tooth
That's really interesting. Pretty cool you folks noticed it! It's definitely something we would want to track and I've been wondering if there's an easy way of datamining it. Probably not
Even if it seems harmless for now, I wonder if the devs will normalize it again anyway. Because, who knows what future mechanic it may end up interacting with? But for now we may as well catalog it. I'll set up something in the database.
Thanks for bringing it to our attention
Even if it seems harmless for now, I wonder if the devs will normalize it again anyway. Because, who knows what future mechanic it may end up interacting with? But for now we may as well catalog it. I'll set up something in the database.
Thanks for bringing it to our attention
Shaman avatar by Spiritbinder.
- Bendak
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Re: Some pets have unique attack speeds again -Broken Tooth
I wondered about the datamining too. At least for now you don't actually need to tame a pet to see the speed, just target it and use the macro. Before the macro we were doing dummy tests which was tedious to say the least.
Eyes of the Beast - My Hunter Blog
Re: Some pets have unique attack speeds again -Broken Tooth
I'm using
/run print(tostring(UnitName("mouseover")).. " " .. UnitAttackSpeed("mouseover"))
and a hotkey. When you use it on your pet, it will be adjusted for your haste.
There have been procs that happen when your pet crits, but the ones I found were on the "basic" attacks, not auto-attacks. I think fast attack is mostly psychological, it feels fun as the hunter, and it might be intimidating in casual pvp (especially if its a spider). As long as you don't hit the attack speed cap. There's a survival talent that hastens pet attack speed in AoE, to be mindful of.
I've been checking out Silithid, since they're fairly useful in pvp, and I've found some more non-2s.
Hive'Zara Sandstalker 0.8
Silithid Drone 1.5
Silithid Spitfire 1.5
Vekniss Solder 1.667
Buru the Gorger 2.5
Vem 2.5
Lord Kri 2.5
Gorishi Worker 2.8
I haven't gotten all the rares yet. I'm missing: Ainamiss the Hive Queen, Haarka the Ravenous, Krkk'kx
I've checked other beasts as I went by. Ironhide Devilsaur and Tyrant Devilsaur were both 2.8, if you want bigger numbers with a devilsaur. Ouro Scarab was the fastest I found, at 1, it's a beetle that spawns midfight. There's more, but I thought those were the most interesting.
/run print(tostring(UnitName("mouseover")).. " " .. UnitAttackSpeed("mouseover"))
and a hotkey. When you use it on your pet, it will be adjusted for your haste.
There have been procs that happen when your pet crits, but the ones I found were on the "basic" attacks, not auto-attacks. I think fast attack is mostly psychological, it feels fun as the hunter, and it might be intimidating in casual pvp (especially if its a spider). As long as you don't hit the attack speed cap. There's a survival talent that hastens pet attack speed in AoE, to be mindful of.
I've been checking out Silithid, since they're fairly useful in pvp, and I've found some more non-2s.
Hive'Zara Sandstalker 0.8
Silithid Drone 1.5
Silithid Spitfire 1.5
Vekniss Solder 1.667
Buru the Gorger 2.5
Vem 2.5
Lord Kri 2.5
Gorishi Worker 2.8
I haven't gotten all the rares yet. I'm missing: Ainamiss the Hive Queen, Haarka the Ravenous, Krkk'kx
I've checked other beasts as I went by. Ironhide Devilsaur and Tyrant Devilsaur were both 2.8, if you want bigger numbers with a devilsaur. Ouro Scarab was the fastest I found, at 1, it's a beetle that spawns midfight. There's more, but I thought those were the most interesting.
Last edited by Xota on Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:26 am, edited 4 times in total.
Re: Some pets have unique attack speeds again -Broken Tooth
If i'm not mistaken, the Vek'niss Soldier actually has an aura that increases it's attack speed
This was my full list, most of which is in Bendak's blog
This was my full list, most of which is in Bendak's blog
Code: Select all
Deth'tilac, 0.5
Markaru, 0.75
Hive'Zara Sandstalker(AQ20), 0.8
Broken Tooth, 1
Beetle(Ouro spawn), 1
Marshwalker, 1
Coldmist Stalker, 1
Mana Feeder, 1
Vile Bat(RFK), 1
Halycon, 1.1
Grovestalker Lynx, 1.2
Windfeather Chick, 1.2
Ayamiss, 1.2
Leviathan, 1.2
Emperor/Gilded Tern, 1.25
Gutripper, 1.4
Fenryr, 1.5
Bloodmaul Direwolf, 1.5
Thok, 1.5
Ghaz'an, 1.6
Bloodmaul Battle Worg, 1.7
Pridelands Stalker, 1.8
Serpentshrine Sporebat, 1.8
Spirit Beasts, 2
Ursius, 2.4
White Devilsaur, 2.4
Adolescent Direhorn, 2.4
Buru, 2.5
Young Forest Bear, 2.5
Ironhide Devilsaur, 2.8
Barrens Kodo, 3
Decrepid Clefthoof, 3
Coilfang Strider, 3
Landquake Kodo, 3
Chimaeron, 4
Re: Some pets have unique attack speeds again -Broken Tooth
I forgot to be on the lookout for that. But I expect that's the case.Cerbi wrote:If i'm not mistaken, the Vek'niss Soldier actually has an aura that increases it's attack speed
I've found a couple of more slowbies.
Ironfur Greatbull 2.5
Elder Great Turtle 3
I'm marking down everything I see that's not 2, but I'm keeping my eye out for anything 0.8 - 1.2.
Most/all tarantulas and black widows at 2. I didn't get Chatter, Chitter, Rekk'tilac, or Sri'skulk, recluse hatchling
Last edited by Xota on Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
- Rawr
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Re: Some pets have unique attack speeds again -Broken Tooth
The streaker beetle from Nax is a bit faster than most at 1 and Solix is a bit slow at 3
- Acherontia
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Re: Some pets have unique attack speeds again -Broken Tooth
The white frostsabers (pure white) apparently have 1.5 when tamed. Lord Lakmaeran (long untameable) for those interested has a default 2.0.
I'm going through my pets list now. Most have normal 2.0, and that includes loads of spirit beasts, wolves, rares, etc.
White Frostsaber - 1.5
Ramparts (I think?) armored black wolf - 1.5
Ghostly white Northrend worg from that MoP (Kun-Lai summon) quest - 1.5
Displaced Chimera (from the Darkshore phased quests) - 1.3 (weird...)
I apologize for incorrect names but I honestly can't remember the names of some or where I tamed them; they should be easy enough to find.
I'm going through my pets list now. Most have normal 2.0, and that includes loads of spirit beasts, wolves, rares, etc.
White Frostsaber - 1.5
Ramparts (I think?) armored black wolf - 1.5
Ghostly white Northrend worg from that MoP (Kun-Lai summon) quest - 1.5
Displaced Chimera (from the Darkshore phased quests) - 1.3 (weird...)
I apologize for incorrect names but I honestly can't remember the names of some or where I tamed them; they should be easy enough to find.
- Equeon
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Re: Some pets have unique attack speeds again -Broken Tooth
Couldn't this still affect functionality even if overall damage is normalized? I.e. if an enemy player or boss moves out of range, the pet with more damage per hit will have done more DPS than one with a faster attack speed that is now unable to reach the target.
Re: Some pets have unique attack speeds again -Broken Tooth
On the other hand, if the boss moves and the slow hitter misses it's hit entirely, its a bigger loss. It's a wash no matter what way we look at thisEqueon wrote:Couldn't this still affect functionality even if overall damage is normalized? I.e. if an enemy player or boss moves out of range, the pet with more damage per hit will have done more DPS than one with a faster attack speed that is now unable to reach the target.
Re: Some pets have unique attack speeds again -Broken Tooth
This is so great-! I know objectively it doesn't change anything but I was just lamenting the loss of pet attack speed and the individuality it gave pets, so it's really cool to see it back in the game-- thank you for the work you guys have done to bring us this info.
For fun, I ran the script against a few of my faithful friends, and here's a couple more for your list-
OG Grimtotem Spirit Guide wolf is fast at 1.0!
Solix (orange trick-tame spider from Firelands (already mentioned above) is 3.0
The green-runed Plaguehound Runt --only the runts!-- (from EPL) is 1.5
Shadowclaw (rare black riding tiger model from Darkshore) is 1.5
Swarming Guardian (head-down black shiny cat from Ulduar) is 1.5
Angry Hound (from Scarlet Halls 5-man) is 1.5 and Starving Hound (from the same) is 1.0
For fun, I ran the script against a few of my faithful friends, and here's a couple more for your list-
OG Grimtotem Spirit Guide wolf is fast at 1.0!
Solix (orange trick-tame spider from Firelands (already mentioned above) is 3.0
The green-runed Plaguehound Runt --only the runts!-- (from EPL) is 1.5
Shadowclaw (rare black riding tiger model from Darkshore) is 1.5
Swarming Guardian (head-down black shiny cat from Ulduar) is 1.5
Angry Hound (from Scarlet Halls 5-man) is 1.5 and Starving Hound (from the same) is 1.0
- Bowno
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Re: Some pets have unique attack speeds again -Broken Tooth
Huzzah! Glad to see my old pupper is effected by this boost ;DBashkarr wrote:OG Grimtotem Spirit Guide wolf is fast at 1.0!
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- Nanluin
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Re: Some pets have unique attack speeds again -Broken Tooth
As an old vanilla WoW player and long-time BM Hunter, I tamed Broken Tooth as soon as I hit level 39 and ran with him as my primary pet for years (named Sarge).
The reason for wanting his 1.0 attack speed then was that each attack had the potential to interrupt spell casting in an opponent, and since he hit twice as often as most pets, he had significantly higher rates of spell interrupts. As I have only recently returned to the game (I left after Cataclysm), is this no longer the case?
Side note: why did they take away the Pet Pane (a tab on the Character Pane)? Beast Lore doesn't list much of use, and it seems silly that you have to use a macro now to see attack speed. I understand that many Pet Talent choices have been eliminated (such as having a specific pet for Fire Resistance-needed fights), and pets have largely been normalized, such that the Pet Pane is perhaps not as useful as it once was, but I still find it irritating to not have the pet data readily available.
On the other hand, I do NOT miss having to periodically feed my pet to keep him/her "happy", and I especially do NOT miss having to level up every new pet and keep all pets in my stable leveled up. I still remember taming Humar the Pridelord back when he was a unique-skinned rare (another pet peeve of mine, when Blizzard turns a unique pet into a common model later) when he was level 15, and then spending days and days taking him up to level 60.
-- Nanluin
The reason for wanting his 1.0 attack speed then was that each attack had the potential to interrupt spell casting in an opponent, and since he hit twice as often as most pets, he had significantly higher rates of spell interrupts. As I have only recently returned to the game (I left after Cataclysm), is this no longer the case?
Side note: why did they take away the Pet Pane (a tab on the Character Pane)? Beast Lore doesn't list much of use, and it seems silly that you have to use a macro now to see attack speed. I understand that many Pet Talent choices have been eliminated (such as having a specific pet for Fire Resistance-needed fights), and pets have largely been normalized, such that the Pet Pane is perhaps not as useful as it once was, but I still find it irritating to not have the pet data readily available.
On the other hand, I do NOT miss having to periodically feed my pet to keep him/her "happy", and I especially do NOT miss having to level up every new pet and keep all pets in my stable leveled up. I still remember taming Humar the Pridelord back when he was a unique-skinned rare (another pet peeve of mine, when Blizzard turns a unique pet into a common model later) when he was level 15, and then spending days and days taking him up to level 60.
-- Nanluin
Re: Some pets have unique attack speeds again -Broken Tooth
When I try the macro string you posted it comes back as "nil 0"
Re: Some pets have unique attack speeds again -Broken Tooth
checking my own set of pets:
frostsaber pride watcher: 1.5
bloodfalcon: 1.6
shattered hand warhound: 1.5
black water strider (I don't remember which one it actually is, likely either the deep strider or the pond skipper) : 1
riplash: 1.5
frostsaber pride watcher: 1.5
bloodfalcon: 1.6
shattered hand warhound: 1.5
black water strider (I don't remember which one it actually is, likely either the deep strider or the pond skipper) : 1
riplash: 1.5
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Re: Some pets have unique attack speeds again -Broken Tooth
So Ayamiss the wasp boss in AQ is 1.2, but, the green wasp that spawns as an add is 1.0. Tricky getting that add though, as it flies rather high. I missed it before it despawned after taming the boss.
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Re: Some pets have unique attack speeds again -Broken Tooth
What an awesome find! I really hope they don't remove this.. Probably will because fun detected ™ !
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Re: Some pets have unique attack speeds again -Broken Tooth
I do love seeing chimaeron hit like a truck! Even though it's the same dps.
Re: Some pets have unique attack speeds again -Broken Tooth
Shameless plug, I posted an addon that includes attack speed in the tooltip for wild (and pet) beasts. Now you don't need a macro, you just enable and mouseover.
https://wow.curseforge.com/projects/stablehand
https://wow.curseforge.com/projects/stablehand
Re: Some pets have unique attack speeds again -Broken Tooth
This is great! thanksXota wrote:Shameless plug, I posted an addon that includes attack speed in the tooltip for wild (and pet) beasts. Now you don't need a macro, you just enable and mouseover.
https://wow.curseforge.com/projects/stablehand