Petopia Classic - initial discussion

Discuss WoW Classic, and the development of our Petopia Classic site.
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Wain
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Petopia Classic - initial discussion

Unread post by Wain » Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:26 am

I'm currently working on resurrecting the classic / vanilla database for WoW Classic.

- I hope to have it running on a version of the site that has a "Classic" branding, so hopefully it won't confuse anyone looking for standard data. Probably classic.wow-petopia.com.
- For nostalgia, I'll probably give it the dark green background that Petopia used to have. I may or may not take new pet images to match the background. We'll see.
- I'm inclined to not use the old logo (you can see it here) as the new one is so much nicer. What do you think?
- the pet database is currently just under 600 pets, unless I missed any. I'd completely forgotten that Birds of Prey used to be Owls!
- I believe I have data on all the skill ranks that wild pets knew. If you remember, to learn a new rank in a skill you had to tame a wild pet that knew that rank, and then you could pass it on to your other pets. I thought that was kinda fun.
- Unless I'm mistaken, the Gore skill wasn't added until BC, so probably won't be used.
- Only some wild pets knew any of the wild skills, right? There are a lot that don't have any rank of any skill listed.
- It'll be interesting to see how close to original WoW they actually come, and how much the Classic database will have to deviate from Vanilla. For example, will some pets be "casters" that renders them mostly useless? Will some pets colour-change again? Since they're starting from a recent WoW build as a base and working backwards it's hard to be sure of things like this.
- A few pets also used to have special abilities on top of the standard ones, making them extra useful in raids. I wonder if that will return. It did result in most other pets being made redundant for raiding. :/
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Re: WoW CLASSIC Petopia

Unread post by Valnaaros » Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:53 am

According to Blizz, they'll be using Patch 1.12 for Classic and will only be fixing exploits and bugs that existed then. Outside of that, they plan on keeping it pretty much the way it was back then I.E. no new models, no xmog, no account-wide benefits, some classes/specs being useless, etc.

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Re: WoW CLASSIC Petopia

Unread post by Wain » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:00 am

Yeah. From what I'm hearing, a lot of the underlying code is modern, though, so it could mean that pets won't be colour-changers, or won't retain special abilities, simply because the underlying code has changed. I could be wrong, I'm just curious how it's going to go and what I'll need to plan for.
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Re: WoW CLASSIC Petopia

Unread post by Valnaaros » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:05 am

The demo will give a pretty good idea on how it'll all work, I'd think.

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Re: WoW CLASSIC Petopia

Unread post by Wain » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:14 am

Yep. Hopefully we’ll know in a few weeks :)
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Re: WoW CLASSIC Petopia

Unread post by Wain » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:16 pm

Serpents. Hmmm. Can anyone confirm that serpents weren't a family before 2.0? They're not a BC family but according to Wowpedia they weren't added until 2.0, which means they may not be a family in Classic. :/ I'm including their data for now but I may have to remove it.
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Re: WoW CLASSIC Petopia

Unread post by Rawr » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:56 pm

I think before 2.0 they were a glitch pet. Yeah if I remember correctly they were Wind Serpents that looked like Serpents but were made an official pet in 2.0. :mrgreen:

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Re: WoW CLASSIC Petopia

Unread post by Wain » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:47 pm

Thanks. That matches what Wowpedia said then. I guess I’ll exclude Serpents from Classic then
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Re: WoW CLASSIC Petopia

Unread post by Rawr » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:50 pm

They might put it in just because they (well the one) was tamable before 2.0. :mrgreen:

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Re: WoW CLASSIC Petopia

Unread post by Wain » Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:57 am

Here's a summary list of all the NPCs I can find:

http://www.wow-petopia.com/classicpetsummary.php

There are 562 tameable creatures, including Serpents. 553, if Serpents end up not being included.
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Re: WoW CLASSIC Petopia

Unread post by Wain » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:58 am

I'm currently compiling family skills, and which wild pets knew which skills when tamed (and at what level).

Can anyone remind me - did pet families in Classic have an official spec? Petopia used to divide them up into "Offensive", "Defensive" and "General", based on their damage and tanking modifiers, but I can't find anything that says whether those were official categories, or if it's something Petopia just did for convenience. It's really been too long for me :P
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Re: WoW CLASSIC Petopia

Unread post by Namárië » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:12 am

Uhh I don't think pets had spec back then. . But I might be wrong. There were caster stats though. . Specially on windserpents. .
There always were superior pets. I remember boars being THE pet to get. And everone tame pigs from wpl or epl. If it was before or after Gorillas were the best I don't recall...
Only some wild pets knew any of the wild skills, right? There are a lot that don't have any rank of any skill listed.
Yes. Bite rank 8 were only avalible in brd on wolves there. That's the only one I remember where to get but it was specific pets for claw, bite and dash in every rank.


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'm inclined to not use the old logo (you can see it here) as the new one is so much nicer. What do you think?
Heh I forgotten the old logo. Using the new is a better choice imo :).

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Re: WoW CLASSIC Petopia

Unread post by Niabi » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:33 am

If memory serves me right, I believe vanilla pets had a talent tree much like how player classes did back in the day. Pet talent trees were specific to the type of pet you'd tame i.e.: Bears and Boars had a tenacity tree, Cats and Wolves had a ferocity tree, and Windserpents had a cunning tree. You could select certain talents within that tree like increased stamina and improved stuns, etc. that were specifically tied to that particular tree. I posted all of the pets and which tree they belonged to in another, older post. If I can find it, I'll link it here for reference.

Here we go:
Niabi wrote:There were Bats, Bears, Boars, Carrion Birds, Cats, Crabs, Crocolisks, Gorillas, Hyenas, Owls, Raptors, Scorpids, Serpents, Spiders, Tallstriders, Turtles, Windserpents, and Wolves ... if I remember correctly.

Bears, Boars, Crabs, Crocolisks, Gorillas, Scorpids, and Turtles were Tenacity (Tank) Pets.

Bats, Carrion Birds, Owls, Serpents, Spiders, and Windserpents were Cunning (Utility) Pets.

Cats, Hyenas, Raptors, Tallstriders, and Wolves were Ferocity (DPS) Pets.

I feel a little iffy on whether I got all of the pets into the right category or not but it's been such a looong time.
Disclaimer: Not all of these beasts may make it to the new vanilla WoW. Some of them may have been made available after the 1.12 patch. I wasn't playing at that time so I'm only going off of what I knew when I was introduced to the game at TBC launch.

Tarnfalk is right, there was such a thing as caster stats for certain types of beasts that would dampen their health and physical dps output, thus making them an inferior choice compared to other beasts. I remember certain (if not all) Windserpents having caster stats, as well as Dragonhawks -- although the later didn't become available until TBC. Oh, there was also a rare Wolf in Darkshire that was a caster pet. Can't remember the name but I remember he did shadow damage.

Pet skills were the thing you'd reserve one space in your stable for in order to learn and teach to your two permanent pets. These were basic abilities like rake, bite, charge, and thunderstomp. Here's a helpful video that covers which abilites there were and where you could learn them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42Wacqc ... e=youtu.be. Some pets also had higher attack speeds and run speeds. I remember a rare cat in the Badlands being able to keep up with mounted characters while the pink Tallstrider in Mulgore had the slowest run speed. I apologize for not being able to recall the names of these beasts at this time … it's early and I haven't had breakfast yet … my brain is on strike atm.

Other helpful references pertaining to this subject: http://classic-wow.wikia.com/wiki/Pet_talents and http://classic-wow.wikia.com/wiki/Pet_a ... _(Vanilla)
Last edited by Niabi on Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: WoW CLASSIC Petopia

Unread post by Slapperfish » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:16 pm

Pet talent trees weren't a thing until Wrath.

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Re: WoW CLASSIC Petopia

Unread post by Niabi » Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:01 pm

Slapperfish wrote:Pet talent trees weren't a thing until Wrath.
I'm going to have to disagree with you. They were very much a thing long before Wrath.

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Re: WoW CLASSIC Petopia

Unread post by Rikaku » Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:36 pm

Actually, I think talent trees for pets were introduced with Wrath. They came with patch 3.0.3 I believe. But that's when it first changed to actually being called "talents".

However, prior to that, pets had points and a sort of "psuedo" talent tree with Training Points. If I remember correctly, that tied in with the whole Loyalty system. But the concept was a bit similar.

At least that's what I remember lol

Edit:
Some info I found about the Training Point system and when it was replaced in 3.0.2 spent.
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Training_point

Edit 2:
Actually, both might be correct. Apparently TBC introduced some spec-tree stuff too, but I think they still called it Training Points? I found some old articles from BigRedKittys old site that says TBC introduced "pet talent trees".

So technically the talent tree existed before wrath, but maybe we were using a different name for them. I do remember that Wrath did bring a big overhaul to pet specs tho, but it's been so long I can barely remember it all correctly lol

Sorry, I'm probably not helpful xD
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Re: WoW CLASSIC Petopia

Unread post by Wain » Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:45 pm

Thanks heaps for all your comments and links! :)

Natural pet ability ranks (for wild pets) are now on that table, as well as a [CASTER] mark for those that were "caster" pets. It's also possible that they will consider the "caster" syndrome to be an outstanding bug and fix it anyway. They did say they would fix bugs even if they were known to exist in 1.12.

I've placed the spec type next to the family name, but for now I've stuck with the ones that Petopia was using at that time point: offensive, defensive and general. I'll read up more on that from those links Niabi provided before I decide how to name them.

As for pets that could run faster than others, from what I read that was fixed by 1.12 so hopefully it won't be something we have to worry about. I'm unsure about other special abilities, though.
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Re: WoW CLASSIC Petopia

Unread post by Niabi » Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:58 pm

@Wain: Here's a link to Petopia from July 31, 2005: https://web.archive.org/web/20050731232 ... rs.net:80/. It lists the site updated for patch 2.0.12 -- later than patch 1.12 I know but it was the earliest reference I could find. It might be helpful for the information that you need if you haven't accessed it already.
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Re: WoW CLASSIC Petopia

Unread post by Rawr » Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:27 pm

Training Points came from Loyalty and allowed you to teach your pet things like (can't remember the spell names) increased armor, elemental resistances, increased stam, Dash/Claw/Prowl (after you learned it from another tame), everything but Growl I believe. :mrgreen:

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Re: WoW CLASSIC Petopia

Unread post by Niabi » Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:15 pm

Reflecting on it a bit. Slapperfish was right about the pet talent trees being introduced in Wrath. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrtvj1SoUFo.

I do remember something along the ways of spending points to increase the abilities of your pets though. So perhaps Rikaku was also right in that there was a sort of pseudo pet talent tree thing-a-ma-jig in place during vanilla WoW.

I apologize for any mis-information I may have given. It's not easy to remember every single fact of something that has changed and evolved a gajillion times over the span of 14 years.

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