Savage rend and druid mangle conflict?

[Sarayana]

When I was chaining heroics yesterday, a kitty druid asked me if my pet (a raptor) has some sort of mangle. I said no, cause while savage rend is a bleed, it doesn't do a bleed damage increase like mangle does. Warrior then piped up and said that he's specced into trauma. Explains it, right? Except, the druid said, when he runs with hunters (without warriors in his party) his mangle often gets overwritten, so he blames the pets.

I'm pretty sure he must have overlooked another mangle type of ability in his party and that I'm right, but can you verity, oh Petopian Well of Wisdom?

Thank you.

[Tahlian]

I always thought that if there was a conflict between a pet special ability and a player special ability bringing the same buff or debuff, the pet's ability would always be overwritten by the PC's ability, for the express purpose of making pets useful when you didn't have a player of a specific class to cover a buff or debuff, but not making it profitable to sit a player to have a hunter bring their pet instead.

Was there perhaps a common denominator of a rogue being in those groups instead of a warrior? Since cat druids and rogues deal the same general "type" of damage (i.e. combo-point based and energy-generated), it's possible that some odd combination of abilities might cause Mangle to get overwritten then.

[Schatzy]

If I'm not mistaken, the Rhino special ability is a bleed damage increase one (which makes no sense at all, but oh well), so if there's any ability overwriting mangle, it would be that one.

[Chrizesu]

The rhino is the only conflict I see as well, being that the raptor's effect only boosts it's own damage.

[Tahlian]

Perhaps it's not the pet the druid should be blaming...perhaps it's the hunters themselves. Might it be possible that the Marksman talent Piercing Shots is removing Mangle for some odd (and probably bugged) reason?

I know that in our 25-man raid, there's me (a beast master) and one other hunter, who's Survival. I've never once heard our kitty druid say her Mangle was being overwritten, so it's likely not something out of either of those two talent trees.

Of course, it's also possible that the OP's complaining cat druid wasn't refreshing Mangle properly and that it was falling off as it's supposed to when its time runs out. Without parses or first-hand experience, we'll likely never know.

[Vephriel]

Hmm, it might be worth posting something on the WoW forums (as scary as they can be), to see if anyone else has noticed this.

[Ryno]

Hmm, it might be worth posting something on the WoW forums (as scary as they can be), to see if anyone else has noticed this.

Run in, and ask your question. Shield your eyes!

[Striv]

What Ryno said :O

[Sarayana]

Lol I'm scared of the WoW forums, which is why I frequent this place instead!

Quick facts run-down:
I'm SV and run with a raptor pet (Rafa, if you go looking at my armory)
The druid was a random pug, so I don't have anything but his word to go on - no rogue in our group
Warrior was pretty sure there was a conflict with trauma, it was the druid that insisted that it wasn't the first time etc. etc.

I just wanted to see if anyone else had any similar experiences or knew more of the theorycrafting behind this stuff. Thanks to your input here, I'm tempted to think he was just high/drunk/off his rocker. Or forgetting to refresh after it dropped off. Whichever.

[Dulanie]

more then likely he kept losing track of refreshing mangle. In my expierence with all the groups I've been on over the last 4+/- years there never has been a conflict. In my opinion it was either that or he was lacking +hit. I have seen an increasing number of players that have no idea how to play their class/role such as pallys trying to tank and only dropping concecration once, or thinking they can tank in full ret spec just because they have a shield. This I think is the most likely.

[Chrizesu]

more then likely he kept losing track of refreshing mangle. In my expierence with all the groups I've been on over the last 4+/- years there never has been a conflict. In my opinion it was either that or he was lacking +hit. I have seen an increasing number of players that have no idea how to play their class/role such as pallys trying to tank and only dropping concecration once, or thinking they can tank in full ret spec just because they have a shield. This I think is the most likely.

Hehe, in that case, shamans should be able to tank.

[Saturo]

Actually, shamans were originally designed to tank with enhancement spec! They changed that tough, since the shammies had worthless mitigation.

[Chrizesu]

Actually, shamans were originally designed to tank with enhancement spec! They changed that tough, since the shammies had worthless mitigation.

Pssh, they could have just upped the mitigation in the enhancement tree.

[Saturo]

Yes, but then there's the problem with gear. All the tanking stuff was plate, having to make allnew gear for one spec is a no-go for blizz, so they made enhancement use hunter gear for dpsing purposes.