Your choice to update a model.

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Kalliope
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Re: Your choice to update a model.

Unread post by Kalliope » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:49 pm

Ryai wrote:
Kalliope wrote:
Dvalin wrote:Kalli, what would your first pet choice be for a model update or do you mean a worg update generally not just a texture fix?
Well, it depends on how the texture fix would be applied, if it would require a major remodel to smooth things out to be more like worgen fur.

I'm very uneasy about wanting more than touching up old artwork. I would say that the old world cats need love as well, but I wouldn't want the scraggly old lions looking like Sambas, for example. They have character, even if they look like they're from a different game in some ways.
Kalli evolved from blue to purple?
Yep, I got a new skin with the latest build.
Ryai wrote:But I mean even you have to admit that the hair could do with some work and the model itself to an extent. I think Sambas is used as an example for the majority because well like how druid cat models are, his is well even if it's the basic cat model, it's gotten touchup and work all cats could have.

IE more polygons, less balding lions.
This is exactly why I mentioned the old lions in the first place. They could use the work. They're a bit too scraggly by today's standards. But if more polygons means getting another Sambas, then I'll pass. It's a rather extreme standpoint, but can you imagine how much work for the art department it would be to keep recreating various versions of the same pets, somehow retaining the old vibes? I don't really expect to see resources and time allocated in that direction.

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Re: Your choice to update a model.

Unread post by Ryai » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:53 pm

Oh no no no you misunderstood, I didn't mean as much of a drastic change as like old drood cat to new or about Sambas, as there is a way to keep old lion vibe, with just some updates. You know atleast a better mane not like Sambas but you know, more hair less spikes? And whiskers.

Fixed whiskers would be nice.

And a new skin!

Oh know what this means!

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Re: Your choice to update a model.

Unread post by Kalliope » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:58 pm

Oh yeah, I agree; the mane could be shaggy and soft without being floofy. But that's a delicate balance. If it's TOO silky, then the mane will look like a toupee. >_<

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Re: Your choice to update a model.

Unread post by Dvalin » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:45 pm

Ok I just headed out to the Barrens and got a nice screen cap of both Sambas and a current maned lion so we can have a little side by side comparison. Please note I'm not saying all the manes lions should look like Sambas but its the best comparison we have at the moment ... unless I do a side by side of a black old scorpid and a black Madexx.

Anyway here's the old Lion

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and here's Sambas

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Honestly now I know the old lions had character, I ran around with Humar ( the only maned lion I've ever tamed) for good 10 levels back when 10 levels was a long time and I can see the appeal they used to have but I mean come on which would you rather look at?

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Re: Your choice to update a model.

Unread post by Akycha » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:47 pm

Would I get mauled is I said the original model?

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Re: Your choice to update a model.

Unread post by Kalliope » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:55 pm

I second the original model. Jambalaya is a Savannah Highmane, not Sambas, and always will be. :D

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Re: Your choice to update a model.

Unread post by Dvalin » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:56 pm

Akycha wrote:Would I get mauled is I said the original model?
Of course not, everyone is entitled to their opinion, if you like the old one thats great but for me its lacking, I know the old one does have a bad case of pixilitis at the moment but if you could translate some of the rough and raggedness of the old model into a higher poly model when textures aren't just plastered on to planes maybe I'd look again but at the moment they aren't for me.

Anyway this is just an example of how some new textures and models could be beneficial, its not just the poor lions who suffer. I'll go and get my black MAdexx out of the stable and find a spot to pair him up against a black scorpion as anothr example.

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Re: Your choice to update a model.

Unread post by Vephriel » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:34 pm

I very much prefer the original lion model, I don't like Sambas at all. Though I will say that the back part of the body looks nice with the muscle definition, that ridiculous mane and vapid 'derp' expression just kills it for me. The whole face/head I suppose just really doesn't appeal to me.

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Re: Your choice to update a model.

Unread post by Ryai » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:47 pm

Vephriel wrote:I very much prefer the original lion model, I don't like Sambas at all. Though I will say that the back part of the body looks nice with the muscle definition, that ridiculous mane and vapid 'derp' expression just kills it for me. The whole face/head I suppose just really doesn't appeal to me.
I think Dvalin isn't saying they need to look like Sambas. But I for one would kill for an old world lion skin that has Sambas's body structure, IE actual muscle tone and definition with NO jaggedness and perhaps a smoother mane that isn't 5 lines of hair. But not a mini Sambas.

It's the same as cata crocs and old crocs- I love them both but Cata crocs are far superior in model and skin. And it's not fair as I would love to use old crocolisks as I love their chinese dragon look, but their model breaks when they run, they squash and squish.

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Re: Your choice to update a model.

Unread post by Dvalin » Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:16 am

Ryai wrote:I think Dvalin isn't saying they need to look like Sambas. But I for one would kill for an old world lion skin that has Sambas's body structure, IE actual muscle tone and definition with NO jaggedness and perhaps a smoother mane that isn't 5 lines of hair. But not a mini Sambas.

It's the same as cata crocs and old crocs- I love them both but Cata crocs are far superior in model and skin. And it's not fair as I would love to use old crocolisks as I love their chinese dragon look, but their model breaks when they run, they squash and squish.
Ryai wins at understanding my point :P you shall have a freshly baked cookie!

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Re: Your choice to update a model.

Unread post by vanquished14 » Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:27 am

Aw, I *love* Sambas... Though it does bug me how he opens and closes his mouth so frequently. Personally, I think they should make old world lions more like Sambas (not exact same) and convert Sambas to a Fire Maned Lion! (so he could be Terropene's sibling) :P

I really hate the mouth on Bears. I'd like that to be changed. Really all beasts need body upgrades. Ancient Turtles, Maned Lion and Chromaggus Core Hound seem to have way better models than the old pets (granted I know Chromaggus isn't "new").

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Re: Your choice to update a model.

Unread post by Dvalin » Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:36 am

Ok here we go, compare and contrast number 2. Old Scorpid model vs new Scorpid model.

The old black scorpid model.

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and the black new Scorpid model

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The thing that makes the big difference to me is that the new scorpid model looks more like an arthropod, its all segmented and jointed in all the right places and I really love how the tail is all spikey now. The problems I have with the old model now is that the claws arent properly jointed and the textures squash and stretch especially around the face and its also just too shiny now, like it got dipped in a tub of clear gloss varnish, the new scorpid model has a subtler sheen but I generally prefer it over the old model. Please note I'm not trying to say every new model is better, I didn't like having my old turtle being changed to that drab grey ancient turtle skin. How ever I do think there are a lot of improvements and am interested to hear when you guys think, I'm not suggesting we swap every male lion with sambas and every scorpid with a madexx but they are the closest working examples, there's still room for change.

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Re: Your choice to update a model.

Unread post by Samarachan » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:05 am

I think the point is how much detail was put into the new models, and how disregarded the old ones became. They could atleast give their manes or textures a higher resolution...Look at the old lion's mane, you can count the pixels :(

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Re: Your choice to update a model.

Unread post by Miyon » Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:09 am

Vephriel wrote:I very much prefer the original lion model, I don't like Sambas at all. Though I will say that the back part of the body looks nice with the muscle definition, that ridiculous mane and vapid 'derp' expression just kills it for me. The whole face/head I suppose just really doesn't appeal to me.
Seconded.

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Re: Your choice to update a model.

Unread post by Ziarre » Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:26 am

I think a good example of updating without completely changing would be the serpents. When the naga were updated, so were they...and now? Serpent skins that have been in the game for years have gotten a 'wow' out of me. Even just a texture update can make a world of difference.
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Re: Your choice to update a model.

Unread post by Mindsprocket » Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:10 am

Count me in on the people that prefer the old lions. They certainly could use a texture upgrade, but I wouldn't want a totally different model for them.

As for pets that really need an upgrade: HYENAS! Definitely hyenas. Their "fix" took a buggy model and completely broke it. Their posture looks absolutely painful and they seem more terrified than ferocious. It's true that all old models need updates, but it's mostly cosmetic changes to get them up to par with the new stuff. Hyenas, however, are the only pets that imo are actually broken. Which is why I think they need the change the most. If I have to have a buggy hyena I'd prefer the old model, but I guess at this point it might be better to just start over with a new one instead of trying to patch up a model that never was that good to begin with.

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Re: Your choice to update a model.

Unread post by Skade » Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:17 am

Hyenas. Really bad. I would have loved to have a hyena pet, but I can't get past the incredibly blocky, pixelly models they have.

Original wolves could use one too, for the same reasons, but I guess the worgs and saberworgs kind of count? One of the reasons I'm really not after Karoma. The spirit skin is kinda neat, but yech, old wolf model. Give me a ghostly sabreworg and I would be ALL over that. Skoll is still one of my favorite models.

Agreeing with bats as well. Bats are actually my favorite animal of all, yet I never felt inclined to tame one due to the weird looking models.

Pretty much all the old cats too. I'm echoing that they all not need look like Sambas, they just could use a higher polygon counts and higher res skins. That goes for all vanilla tamable though, really. Even though, in game, I think Sambas' model is reaaaaallly nice looking, I would be mighty peeved if all my hunting was suddenly made pointless.

And these ones aren't all that old, but I still think they could use a leeeetttle work:

Foxes. Why is a fox twice the size as an undead or blood elf? The models they have are nice, but they are just so dang BIG.
Demon Dogs: And in contrast, these seem like they would be a lot bigger when tamed, instead it's not that much bigger than my hoof. It's like a demon chihuahua. I LOVE the models, especially the runed variants, but I wish they were a little more beastly in size.
Loque: That face. THAT FACE. That is all.

...But honestly, I would take a nice upgrade to PLAYER MODELS over NPCs first. Look at how nice looking the worgen and goblins look!

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Re: Your choice to update a model.

Unread post by Lisaara » Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:52 am

The old world lions need to see a dentist, imho and get fluffier/smoother manes. They don't gotta be like Sambas but their faces look DERP right now.

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Re: Your choice to update a model.

Unread post by Umbriel of Halaa » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:43 am

Probably cats. Just the baseline saber cat model, that is, such as what you'll see on cougars in Mulgore. I think I'd pretty much increase the poly count and revamp the skins. (Lionesses in the Barrens, for example, would have proper lioness skins rather than just the male-lion skin on a model with no mane.)

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Re: Your choice to update a model.

Unread post by Raydex-of-the-dawn » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:53 am

...Mage's water elemental. It's terrible. The back has holes in it :O

From there on: crocolisk edges on their whiskers. Ugly. And the teeth and edges in the Old Cliff Jumper/Black Ravager/Ironjaw/Deathmaw model. The teeth are paper thin and ugly and the edges on the fur ridges are not smooth AT ALL. I don't want northrend worgs out of them but it would be nice if they didn't have paper for mouths.

And then hyenas. D:

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