Exotic pet abilities: Make some changes plz?

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Ryai
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Re: Exotic pet abilities: Make some changes plz?

Unread post by Ryai » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:08 pm

Rawr wrote:For the Shale Spiders I think they are fine, as for the Devilsaurs I think they do need to do away with the reduced healing and give it something more befitting a giant terrifying dinosaur like make Monstrous Bite increase physical damage taken as Ravagers only pet with that debuff. :mrgreen:
Actually worms and Ravagers have the +% dmg increase, and rogues, druids and I think wars already provide it and if they gave a dps exotic that sort of ability... yeah.

It's why Wolves and Saurs both share crit. It's why cats and SB's both share Roar of Courage. It's to keep the 'omg cat is better than SB and wolf is best thing ever' deal from happening but with dps pets.

And even if we can spare the 15 focus for widow venom- why remove the ability from Devilsaurs? That's like saying removing any ability from a pet that can be a bonus to you or another class, because the pet makes up for not having to waste rage from a dps war for sunder for the pally, or in the case of a devilsaur, not waste focus or more importantly a GCD when sometimes you can't afford to [mostly PVP tbh but still]. It's a matter of convience and preference.

The devilsaur debuff is convienent, nothing more nothing less and I honestly think it's better to just agree to disagree on the subject.
Yeah cause honestly if they start mucking about with pet abilities, exotic or not, they better start doing something else, like pets in any tree you want. Then they could change the abilities accordingly, like lets take Devilsaurs since well it seems such a rampant discussion.

Devilsaur; Monstrous Bite [Tenacity]: Sunders the target's armor with its massive fangs by XX for XX, stacks twice [basically like improved faire fire or whatever but only needs to be applied twice for full sunder armor affect]
Devilsaur: Monstrous Bite [Cunning]: Deals a crushing wound that reduces healing efficiency by XX for XX seconds.
Devilsaur: Monstrous Bite [Ferocity]: Rips the opponents weapon from their hands, disarming them for XX seconds.

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Re: Exotic pet abilities: Make some changes plz?

Unread post by Rawr » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:39 pm

Ryai wrote:
Rawr wrote:For the Shale Spiders I think they are fine, as for the Devilsaurs I think they do need to do away with the reduced healing and give it something more befitting a giant terrifying dinosaur like make Monstrous Bite increase physical damage taken as Ravagers only pet with that debuff. :mrgreen:
Actually worms and Ravagers have the +% dmg increase, and rogues, druids and I think wars already provide it and if they gave a dps exotic that sort of ability... yeah.
Having an increased physical dmg debuff on a ferocity pet in a raid (like mine) that doesn't have it is nice, and there are virtually no raid or dungeon bosses that heal, so that debuff is worthless unless you PvP with a Devilsaur. I dont recommend PvPing with such a big pet, they seem to die pretty fast. And only 1 spec out of each of those classes has it and with wars and druids they have to spec into it, rogues I'm not sure. :mrgreen:

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Re: Exotic pet abilities: Make some changes plz?

Unread post by Darven » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:39 am

Nice to see this got atention.

Now the devilsaur, the AoE fear would be great in pvp and i said re-name the crit spell and the aoe fear would take its name.
i like the crit.....

i havent been on this ptr so id asume the shale spiders have the stun that was mentioned? thats good

And since the gyreworms are being changed to elementals, there goes my hopes of having that skin.

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Re: Exotic pet abilities: Make some changes plz?

Unread post by Lisaara » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:43 am

Darven wrote:Nice to see this got atention.

Now the devilsaur, the AoE fear would be great in pvp and i said re-name the crit spell and the aoe fear would take its name.
i like the crit.....

i havent been on this ptr so id asume the shale spiders have the stun that was mentioned? thats good

And since the gyreworms are being changed to elementals, there goes my hopes of having that skin.
Well while it may be great in pvp, you can't just think of pvp. Ferocity pets are used mainly in raids/dungeons/pve. Devilsaurs aren't cunning pets. I also don't think many classes can fear aside the priest and warlock, which even then, most dont use fears very often so fears kinda arent necessary. If it were put into a Cunning pet, I could see it since cunning pets are most recommended for pvp.

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Re: Exotic pet abilities: Make some changes plz?

Unread post by TygerDarkstorm » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:47 am

Personally, I'd rather have the mortal strike debuff over an AoE fear, and I'm like the only person who argued above that hunters should learn to incorporate widow venom.

As Taluwen said, you can't think of just PvP, not to mention, that fear would accrue DR which would be bad for arena and warlocks/spriests/warriors in your BGs. (I think pet abilities get DR anyway, would only makes sense.)

I don't think devilsaurs would have to be cunning to be a PvP pet. As we've seen since 4.0.1, Blizzard doesn't really seem to have the trees split between those types of utilities anymore and cunning pets are reporting to do about the same DPS/damage as ferocity pets.

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Re: Exotic pet abilities: Make some changes plz?

Unread post by Lisaara » Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:06 am

TygerDarkstorm wrote:Personally, I'd rather have the mortal strike debuff over an AoE fear, and I'm like the only person who argued above that hunters should learn to incorporate widow venom.

As Taluwen said, you can't think of just PvP, not to mention, that fear would accrue DR which would be bad for arena and warlocks/spriests/warriors in your BGs. (I think pet abilities get DR anyway, would only makes sense.)

I don't think devilsaurs would have to be cunning to be a PvP pet. As we've seen since 4.0.1, Blizzard doesn't really seem to have the trees split between those types of utilities anymore and cunning pets are reporting to do about the same DPS/damage as ferocity pets.
If there is a way to incorporate it, then I'd be all for it but I've yet to see where it could be. My BM rotation, simple as it is, is a focus hog even at lvl 74. It takes a lot....especially KC and Multi-shot. And since I use my devilsaur.....^^; but if Blizz made stuff not cost so much focus, I could see WV being more involved in the rotation.

As for pet trees, they're still pretty distinctive but not as much as they used to be. But if you look at the trees, majority of their abilities still points to what they're best at but if you spec them correctly, a cunning can be just like a ferocity pet.

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Re: Exotic pet abilities: Make some changes plz?

Unread post by TygerDarkstorm » Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:14 am

My hunter's 84, and I play as BM regularly, I just don't feel starved for focus in anyway. If you do, more power to you for enjoying the devilsaur's buff for what it is. I could see it being useful at lower levels with lesser haste, however, this ability has mostly PvP uses, and if you're using multi-shot in PvP...well, that's not that great really since it costs so much focus and does less damage with the more targets it hits.

BM, from my understanding, has been considered the PvP spec since 4.0.1 because it's the least focus intensive of the specs.

I just really miss the old Monstrous Bite, I thought it was a cool mechanic and I think the loss of it has kind of made me shelf my devilsaur more. Same with the loss of hyena's hamstring; I think they're cute pets, but I'm kind of loath to tame one since the reason I loved them before was being a ferocity pet with a hamstring. I like the idea of ferocity pets for PvP as they produce more damage.

It's all just a matter of personal preference, which is why I said before, with the devilsaur ability, we should all agree to disagree.

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Re: Exotic pet abilities: Make some changes plz?

Unread post by Lisaara » Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:16 am

TygerDarkstorm wrote:My hunter's 84, and I play as BM regularly, I just don't feel starved for focus in anyway. If you do, more power to you for enjoying the devilsaur's buff for what it is. I could see it being useful at lower levels with lesser haste, however, this ability has mostly PvP uses, and if you're using multi-shot in PvP...well, that's not that great really since it costs so much focus and does less damage with the more targets it hits.

BM, from my understanding, has been considered the PvP spec since 4.0.1 because it's the least focus intensive of the specs.

I just really miss the old Monstrous Bite, I thought it was a cool mechanic and I think the loss of it has kind of made me shelf my devilsaur more. Same with the loss of hyena's hamstring; I think they're cute pets, but I'm kind of loath to tame one since the reason I loved them before was being a ferocity pet with a hamstring. I like the idea of ferocity pets for PvP as they produce more damage.

It's all just a matter of personal preference, which is why I said before, with the devilsaur ability, we should all agree to disagree.
Oh no no. I was meaning from a PvE perspective. I use cunning pets for PvP and usually I take down BM hunters in SV easily. Then again, it varies from server to server.

But yeah. I'm just one thats kinda on the fence with it.

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Re: Exotic pet abilities: Make some changes plz?

Unread post by TygerDarkstorm » Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:24 am

I can't really see needing the devilsaur debuff in PvE which is why I guess I keep comparing it to PvP utility. But then again, like I said, I haven't been dungeoning much on my 84 hunter after a horrible group.

I was PvPing as SV right before Cata came out (when all the other hunters on MMO-Champ and stuff said BM was the only good PvP spec) and so long as I could stay ranged (which is, ideally, what hunters should be doing anyway =P) I did fine. I imagine it still works just as well now, especially with aspect of the fox, although I have yet to try it.

I think BM's just easier to PvP with because there's a lot fewer buttons to press and it's pretty pet based. Time your CDs right and keep KC on command and BGs tend to go pretty well from my experience.

If the change I think that was mentioned that SS and CoS were going to scale with haste means what I'm hoping (more focus per haste you have since the shots technically already scale with haste), then it'd make applying the debuff yourself even easier. But anyway, I think we're wearing the topic out. XD

If there's one change on a pet ability I'd like to see, it would be the rhino's bonus to bleed damage debuff. We have three pets that provide that debuff, two of them tenacity. It's not a crazy important debuff (unless you have a raid full of rogues I guess since ferals and MS warriors provide their own increase), and taking a tenacity pet to a raid just feels meh to me if you're needing to pump out top damage. Maybe that's just a Wrath mentality though, but the debuff still feels kind of useless as we as hunters can't use it much (except MM and they can't even use rhinos).

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Re: Exotic pet abilities: Make some changes plz?

Unread post by Lisaara » Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:28 am

Definitely the rhino needs to change. x.x; I think I said somethin about that earlier too but it got swallowed by the Devilsaur convo.

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Re: Exotic pet abilities: Make some changes plz?

Unread post by Rawr » Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:35 am

I really can't see devilsaurs being used in PvP is why I think their debuff should change. A huge red named target towering over everyone else seems to have a bulls-eye on it. As for the fear thing some people are suggesting, I think maybe a cower-looking stun, like where there just standing there shaking (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=56244) I think if it had a short enough cooldown, devilsaurs my be the best dailies/farm pet ever (for me at least) :mrgreen:

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Re: Exotic pet abilities: Make some changes plz?

Unread post by TygerDarkstorm » Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:42 am

Probably. XD

That debuff is one of the reasons I hadn't gone out and tamed a rhino. For such a tanky looking pet, it feels like, to me, the only reason to tame them is for the situational (and funny) horn toss.

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Re: Exotic pet abilities: Make some changes plz?

Unread post by Kurasu » Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:25 am

Acherontia wrote:
Cozzene wrote: Widow Venom ;) A sting that you can apply yourself, I believe it's in the BM tab of your spell book? I might be wrong =(
They stack.
Wait what? :o Since when?
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Re: Exotic pet abilities: Make some changes plz?

Unread post by Rawr » Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:59 am

Kurasu wrote:
Acherontia wrote:
Cozzene wrote: Widow Venom ;) A sting that you can apply yourself, I believe it's in the BM tab of your spell book? I might be wrong =(
They stack.
Wait what? :o Since when?
Kurasu, they don't stack, Acherontia is yanking our chain and/or trolling. Debuffs like that never do and never will otherwise we would have all the warriors, rogues, and hunters use pets and abilities that sunder armor to the point where bosses have none. All debuffs, and now abilities (paw and kings) don't stack for this reason. :mrgreen:

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Re: Exotic pet abilities: Make some changes plz?

Unread post by Anyia » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:08 am

Actually, Monstrous Bite has been known to (presumably incorrectly) stack with Widow Venom. Let me see if I can find the discussion thread...

Edit: It was first noted over in Malazee's Spreadsheets thread, but I don't think I've seen anything to say whether the issue has been fixed yet or not.
Last edited by Anyia on Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Exotic pet abilities: Make some changes plz?

Unread post by Rawr » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:12 am

Anyia wrote:Actually, Monstrous Bite has been known to (presumably incorrectly) stack with Widow Venom. Let me see if I can find the discussion thread...
I've looked, everything I found says they don't, and it makes sense that they wouldn't. All other debuffs and buffs that do the same thing don't stack. Even debuffs and buffs that do the something but with more or less of the amount. Like lesser kings (LW drums), pally kings, paw, or cat roar will stack with each other. :mrgreen:
Last edited by Rawr on Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Exotic pet abilities: Make some changes plz?

Unread post by Kalliope » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:13 am

TygerDarkstorm wrote:BM, from my understanding, has been considered the PvP spec since 4.0.1 because it's the least focus intensive of the specs.
Not from what I've seen. It's survival or bust right now for PvE and PvP.

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Re: Exotic pet abilities: Make some changes plz?

Unread post by Rawr » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:40 am

Anyia wrote:Actually, Monstrous Bite has been known to (presumably incorrectly) stack with Widow Venom. Let me see if I can find the discussion thread...

Edit: It was first noted over in Malazee's Spreadsheets thread, but I don't think I've seen anything to say whether the issue has been fixed yet or not.

All I see is Acherontia commenting that it can stack. I don't see where she found this out or the site its on...... I'm sorry but without accusal numbers or proof I'm going with the default that all similar buffs and debuffs don't stack. :mrgreen:

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Re: Exotic pet abilities: Make some changes plz?

Unread post by TygerDarkstorm » Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:31 am

Kalliope wrote:
TygerDarkstorm wrote:BM, from my understanding, has been considered the PvP spec since 4.0.1 because it's the least focus intensive of the specs.
Not from what I've seen. It's survival or bust right now for PvE and PvP.
It was my thoughts just because of what it was when 4.0.1 had just hit. It was BM or bust for PvP. I figured I was wrong. I knew SV's on top for PvE since it puts out great numbers despite being focus starved, but I hadn't followed PvP really since Cataclysm actually came out so I was going on, what is now, out-dated knowledge.

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Re: Exotic pet abilities: Make some changes plz?

Unread post by Kalliope » Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:35 am

TygerDarkstorm wrote:
Kalliope wrote:
TygerDarkstorm wrote:BM, from my understanding, has been considered the PvP spec since 4.0.1 because it's the least focus intensive of the specs.
Not from what I've seen. It's survival or bust right now for PvE and PvP.
It was my thoughts just because of what it was when 4.0.1 had just hit. It was BM or bust for PvP. I figured I was wrong. I knew SV's on top for PvE since it puts out great numbers despite being focus starved, but I hadn't followed PvP really since Cataclysm actually came out so I was going on, what is now, out-dated knowledge.
What I saw in 4.0.1 was a bunch of hunters going BM to tame things like Chromaggus and assuming that all the cool new stuff meant BM was good for PvP (like, y'know, BLOODLUST). But the lower damage countered that utility, even back then. My more experienced PvP friends just laughed at all the BM hunters who were so easy to kill. >_<

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