Hey, Wain/Noah... a ruling please...

Anything related to Hunter pets.
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Slickrock
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Hey, Wain/Noah... a ruling please...

Unread post by Slickrock » Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:17 am

Could we get a clear ruling on the appearance-only "buff" pets tamed via death-timing? Some here think it's still ok, others think it's bannable, some would still like to tame some, and the rest are sick of the fight.

We know the scripted one is verbotten, and we know the stat-buff pets are verbotten as well. But what about the pets that just happen to die at the proper time when being tamed? This all started because someone happened to figure out that sequence. Is that quietly allowed? or bannable? The previous blue posts and GM responses never were quite clear...

It would be nice to know...

Without a ruling, the arguments here will continue, along with the accusations, brow-beating, and name-calling.

Waiting for feedback please... :D
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Re: Hey, Wain/Noah... a ruling please...

Unread post by TygerDarkstorm » Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:26 am

I don't think those of us warning had said it's necessarily a bannable offense. I only think you would get banned if you had some previous infraction on your account.

I think the most most people would get is a suspension.

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Re: Hey, Wain/Noah... a ruling please...

Unread post by SpiritBinder » Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:42 am

BLIZZARD wrote: Bug Exploitation
We have a top notch Quality Assurance team who tirelessly stamp out bugs and design inconsistencies within World of Warcraft. However, a handful of trained professionals can never isolate and resolve each and every bug in such a deep and complex game accessed simultaneously by thousands of players. You may come across the occasional bug during your adventures. Some bugs are minor and do not affect gameplay, but sometimes these bugs can be used to provide an unfair advantage to certain players or affect the service itself. Factors included in determining the appropriate penalty:

•Whether or not the exploit is performed intentionally, maliciously, and/or repeatedly
•Whether or not the exploit damages another character, their gameplay, the service itself and/or its economy
•Whether or not an attempt has been made to conceal the exploit's use
If a player is found to have abused/distributed an exploit, he/she may:
•Be given a verbal warning if exploitation is unintentional and no attempt has been made to hide its occurrence
•Be temporarily suspended from the game
•In extreme cases the account will be closed outright
Bug exploitation that we consider extreme includes, but is not limited to:
•Any exploit that has a severe negative impact on a realm's economy
•Causing disruption in service or intentionally crashing a realm/server
While these repercussions may seem harsh, we feel very strongly that this type of abuse has no place within Azeroth due to its negative effect on other players or the service itself.

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Re: Hey, Wain/Noah... a ruling please...

Unread post by Ryai » Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:44 am

but I still want another burning boar ;-; QQ


I wish they would just allow the aura/special crap that doesn't affect the game to stay, it just feels unfair because they take this away from us, yet I still see people hacking the game so easily and wantonly with barely any repricussions.

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Re: Hey, Wain/Noah... a ruling please...

Unread post by TygerDarkstorm » Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:49 am

It is silly, Ryai, I agree. But that's how Blizz wants their game to run and it's just something we should respect and obey. They've done a HUGE amount of work for us hunters this expansion.

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Re: Hey, Wain/Noah... a ruling please...

Unread post by Lisaara » Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:59 am

TygerDarkstorm wrote:It is silly, Ryai, I agree. But that's how Blizz wants their game to run and it's just something we should respect and obey. They've done a HUGE amount of work for us hunters this expansion.
Agreed. I'd not mind keeping the harmless buffs but it's Blizzard's ruling. So the 'buff' pets, no matter how they're gotten, are exploits and it's against the ToS. Sadness indeed.

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Re: Hey, Wain/Noah... a ruling please...

Unread post by cowmuflage » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:01 am

Yup it's Blizzs game so if they want to say what we can and can not do I'm fine with that! They do alot for us after all <3

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Re: Hey, Wain/Noah... a ruling please...

Unread post by Anyia » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:06 am

cowmuflage wrote:They do alot for us after all <3
Particularly absorbing our hard-earned money... :lol:

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Re: Hey, Wain/Noah... a ruling please...

Unread post by Rawr » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:07 am

Anyia wrote:
cowmuflage wrote:They do alot for us after all <3
Particularly absorbing our hard-earned money... :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: so true :mrgreen:

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Re: Hey, Wain/Noah... a ruling please...

Unread post by Lisaara » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:14 am

Anyia wrote:
cowmuflage wrote:They do alot for us after all <3
Particularly absorbing our hard-earned money... :lol:
Trufax...

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Re: Hey, Wain/Noah... a ruling please...

Unread post by Redith » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:36 am

Ok here we go. Lets look at this by blizz own words when it comes to taming Buged pets.
•Whether or not the exploit is performed intentionally, maliciously, and/or repeatedly
Intentionally, yes, but not Maliciously
•Whether or not the exploit damages another character, their gameplay, the service itself and/or its economy
No pets do this
•Whether or not an attempt has been made to conceal the exploit's use
Its pretty open
Bug exploitation that we consider extreme includes, but is not limited to:
•Any exploit that has a severe negative impact on a realm's economy
No damage whatsoever
•Causing disruption in service or intentionally crashing a realm/server
Does not do so.


In closing taming glitched pets do no violate Blizz rules
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Re: Hey, Wain/Noah... a ruling please...

Unread post by Lisaara » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:41 am

Redith wrote:Ok here we go. Lets look at this by blizz own words when it comes to taming Buged pets.
•Whether or not the exploit is performed intentionally, maliciously, and/or repeatedly
Intentionally, yes, but not Maliciously

•Whether or not the exploit damages another character, their gameplay, the service itself and/or its economy
No pets do this
•Whether or not an attempt has been made to conceal the exploit's use
Its pretty open

Bug exploitation that we consider extreme includes, but is not limited to:
•Any exploit that has a severe negative impact on a realm's economy
No damage whatsoever
•Causing disruption in service or intentionally crashing a realm/server
Does not do so.


In closing taming glitched pets do no violate Blizz rules
I hate to break this but I bolded & italicized where it does break it, especially here. ^^; I'm pretty sure others will back me up on that too. It's intentional and it was hidden for a time but now its leaked thanks to MMO Champ and multiple topics.

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Re: Hey, Wain/Noah... a ruling please...

Unread post by TygerDarkstorm » Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:28 am

These pets aren't glitched on their own. These buffs occur on them naturally or as per quest. It is, technically, an exploit to tame them so that they avoid the cleansing process. Obviously the cleansing process exists for a reason or no pets whatsoever would do it.

Anyway, it would be nice to get an answer from Wain/Noah about this.

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Re: Hey, Wain/Noah... a ruling please...

Unread post by Tudyk » Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:22 am

I don't think I'd consider having a topic along the lines of "How to tame these pets!" with detailed instructions in the first post "hidden" ... but *shrug* I guess this isn't an official WoW forum or whatevers.

Blizz has banned (or made impossible) plenty of things that were amusing because they could be used maliciously. Changing your char's appearance so that you saw a worgen instead of your druid's kitty form was awesome, but it had other not-so-innocent uses. Writing a macro to autorun your character from one point to another resulted in a lot fewer afk-ish-deaths running from town to town, but made totally afk-botting WAY too easy. Using /jump /logout to wave at your friends from the top of the crossroads inn was funny ... using it to hop over fences in AB before the match started, not so much.

This definitely feels like something that's way too complicated for Blizzard to have intended it, but I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around how having a pig that's on fire is effecting anybody else's game experience other than maybe making them say "oh hey! Neat flaming pig!"


My apologies if this discussion already took place, or if this isn't the place for it. XD

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Re: Hey, Wain/Noah... a ruling please...

Unread post by Redith » Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:33 am

Tudyk wrote:This definitely feels like something that's way too complicated for Blizzard to have intended it, but I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around how having a pig that's on fire is effecting anybody else's game experience other than maybe making them say "oh hey! Neat flaming pig!"
Thats my point. Its not affecting jack
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Re: Hey, Wain/Noah... a ruling please...

Unread post by Wain » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:00 am

I mentioned it to the dev. previously but did not receive any feedback on this particular matter. I won't bug him again about it. He'll reply if he so wishes :)
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Re: Hey, Wain/Noah... a ruling please...

Unread post by Euryleia » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:13 am

Redith wrote:Ok here we go. Lets look at this by blizz own words when it comes to taming Buged pets.
•Whether or not the exploit is performed intentionally, maliciously, and/or repeatedly
Intentionally, yes, but not Maliciously
...
In closing taming glitched pets do no violate Blizz rules
Two points:

First, notice the "or" in that first consideration. Thus, when you say "Intentionally, yes", you're saying it does in fact break the rule. It doesn't have to be "intentionally AND maliciously", intentionally alone is sufficient.

Secondly and far more importantly, as is noted before the list you're going over, this is NOT a list of rules that determine whether something is an exploit. It is, specifically (and I quote): "Factors included in determining the appropriate penalty." It's a list of things they consider when determining what your punishment should be for using an exploit, not a list of factors that determine whether it's an exploit or not. Also note it says "factors included" -- it's not an exhaustive list, they may include other considerations as well.

The taming glitch definitely violates Blizz rules, its just not likely to result in severe punishment.

Also...
Redith wrote:Thats my point. Its not affecting jack
This is incorrect. Many of these things are extra "particle effects" that cause performance issues on older video cards, and even newer ones if overdone. Having one rare mob running around with it isn't a problem -- having a bunch of hunters in Stormwind/Orgrimmar running around with them potentially shuts a lot of people out of the game.

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Re: Hey, Wain/Noah... a ruling please...

Unread post by Mindsprocket » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:33 am

Euryleia wrote:
Redith wrote:Ok here we go. Lets look at this by blizz own words when it comes to taming Buged pets.
•Whether or not the exploit is performed intentionally, maliciously, and/or repeatedly
Intentionally, yes, but not Maliciously
...
In closing taming glitched pets do no violate Blizz rules
Two points:

First, notice the "or" in that first consideration. Thus, when you say "Intentionally, yes", you're saying it does in fact break the rule. It doesn't have to be "intentionally AND maliciously", intentionally alone is sufficient.

Secondly and far more importantly, as is noted before the list you're going over, this is NOT a list of rules that determine whether something is an exploit. It is, specifically (and I quote): "Factors included in determining the appropriate penalty." It's a list of things they consider when determining what your punishment should be for using an exploit, not a list of factors that determine whether it's an exploit or not. Also note it says "factors included" -- it's not an exhaustive list, they may include other considerations as well.

The taming glitch definitely violates Blizz rules, its just not likely to result in severe punishment.
Exactly! I was just about to write this too.

I understand that people like these effects and want to tame these pets. But I can't believe that at this point people still argue that deliberatly glitching the game to get something you by now know you're not supposed to have isn't an exploit. Of course it is! Sure, it's not as bad as hacking the game to one-shot raid bosses. Which is why this alone probably won't get you banned. But it's still clear that Blizzard doesn't want it.

So ask Blizzard to make these pets officially tamable but stop glitching their game. It won't get you on good terms with them.

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Re: Hey, Wain/Noah... a ruling please...

Unread post by Tudyk » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:25 am

@Eurylia: Thank you for that. I had almost forgotten the amazing adventures I had attempting to get from the Mystic Ward to the Military Ward in IF (read: toggle "walk," aim in the general right direction and keep my fingers crossed that every couple seconds when a frame updated it wouldn't show me I'd fallen in the pit) on the first computer I played WoW on.

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Re: Hey, Wain/Noah... a ruling please...

Unread post by SpiritBinder » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:58 am

Ryai wrote:but I still want another burning boar ;-; QQ

I wish they would just allow the aura/special crap that doesn't affect the game to stay, it just feels unfair because they take this away from us, yet I still see people hacking the game so easily and wantonly with barely any repricussions.

LOL, listen to you self QQ I want a pony, seriously...

As for allowing special "crap" It did and does effect the game, in multiple ways.

Also I have yet to hear a case of blizzard taking any of these pets away from people whom tamed them prior the fix (with the exception of damage dealing ones).
I could be wrong, but like I said, I have yet to hear of a single one.

You cry foul about "hackers" getting away with no repercussions, well I hate to tell you, that's me and everyone else that has ever tamed any pet that was not "ment" to be tamed, using bugs or exploits. So if you would like everyone else to loose these pets, because you don't have one, that's fine. But don't come off all high a mighty about being disserviced by blizzard, when essentially, your just having a tanty.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRTkCHE1sS4

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