Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
- Tilo
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
Sethekk Halls, easily farmable. Magister's Terrace, easily farmable. Stratholme, easily farmable.
The only thing is Strath is the only one you can do multiple times until you are so sick of the baron you see him in your dreams. SH and MT are heroics and you can only do them once a day, while if you do it the heroics to say.. I dont know, get the gear you need, or valor points, or much needed experience for raid you can keep queing all day long and theres a chance you may get something like a mount from any of the dungeons like, and it is by just queing, you dont have to be in that dungeon to get it
Vitreous Stone Drake (Stonecore)
Drake of the North Wind (vortex pinnacle)
Blue Proto-Drake (◦Utgarde Pinnacle)
◦Anzu - Sethekk Halls (Heroic)
◦Kael'thas Sunstrider - Magister's Terrace (Heroic)
◦Baron Rivendare -Stratholme
including multiple mini pets
including rare gems, flasks that sell alot, and extra gold
so yes we may kill YOU tanks or heals over dumb things (even I agree) the only difference is, when I leave the dungeon I dont have a chance of repaying all my deaths ten fold or a rare mount who yes is rare! anzu sucks, skadi sucks.. and baron is evil
so rare chance of getting it yes, but you do it enough something is bound to drop doesnt it?
the only good thatll come out of this for dps is if all the dps go onto their healers or tanks so that we can get one atleast once a week..
thank you Ashaine and Kurenio!!!!
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
This caused a LOT of people to simply drop group and take the deserter debuff the instant they got off the Oculus loading screen—because they personally didn't like the instance, because there was a general level of "can't rush through and AoE everything now that it's past the first month," and because once you lost two or three people, it was invariably just faster to go back to your own server and sit through the queue again.
So they nerfed Oculus. A lot of people never gave it a second glance and just kept bailing, because the overall "fun" quota of the instance hadn't changed—it still required you to use vehicles you were never trained to use, it still couldn't be mindlessly zerged like every other dungeon—and because the problems that would trip it up before the vehicles started hitting harder weren't caused by the vehicles hitting like that pink fluffy ornamental grass they sell on QVC (and which I would totally splurge for if we had a garden and not an apartment), it was caused by fundamental issues with the dungeon's pacing and with the nature of pugs.
Seeing that Oculus was still getting the short end of the stick despite having been boiled down to the point where people could cross their eyes at Eregos and he'd keel over (no lie, once towards the end I did the Eregos fight using only one hand on my keyboard and the other supporting one of those supposedly-3D images in random patterns they print on cardboard. Never did see the castle that was supposedly there...), Blizzard decided that an incentive system would be the best way to get people to not drop immediately. If you randomed into Oculus (and ONLY if you randomed, you couldn't specific-queue), upon the death of the last boss, you'd find a bag in his loot chest, which would contain some random gems, some gold, and a small chance at the Reins of the Blue Drake, which had previously been on Malygos-10's person. This actually had quite a few positive points in its favour, which I'll come back to in a second.
The biggest downside, of course, was that not everyone was interested in the mount, and certainly not everyone who's using the dungeon finder to do randoms. So instead of having people almost-unanimously take the deserter debuff if Oculus popped up, you'd end up with a group of 2-4 people who didn't give two hoots about some crappy gems and a mount they'd never ride, and one person trying desperately to get them to NOT drop because if there was only one person left in the group, the LFD tool won't let you find replacements for your group anymore (since you no longer had a group)... so those twenty-seven instances you did that day just so you could random into Oculus for a 5% chance at the drake? Completely and totally wasted. I have a notebook of the sort I keep around my computer for notes and doodles FILLED with statistics, based on my own experiences in the ~600 random dungeons I ran post-Blue Drake migration, of how often Oculus came up (for me it was less than the 1/16 chance it should have been), how long the queues took (both alone and with a tankadin friend of mine that would occasionally come help), how many people on average dropped group before the first trash pull (not just in Oculus; HoR was probably the only other dungeon that inspired the same amount of "oh, screw this"-ism from pugs and the leap in difficulty between one and the other that still managed to elicit such reactions would make me laugh if it didn't make me cry), how many mounts I saw other people get (how many of those then said "lol, another one? that's the fourth this week!" or something else that made me want to stab large pieces of rusty pipe through their esophaguses. Esophagi?), and so on. When we get a real house and all my boxes move up from CA, I may end up tabulating and posting those numbers somewhere, just for the morbid "fun" of it.
I can't remember if Oculus went through Yet Another Nerf after the bags went in; I think it did but I can't recall for certain. In any case, the bag was enough incentive to get mount farmers randoming, but it wasn't a good incentive for people who didn't care to stick around and help out their fellow players.
The Oculus bag did have some positive effects as previously mentioned, and I think some of those will carry over nicely to the Call to Arms. Notably:
Previously, you could only get the Blue Drake from one source—10-player Malygos. This was back when 10 and 25-player dungeons were split so it's not like you had to choose between going for the Blue vs. going for the Azure, but you did have to worry about a very small dropchance (1-5% I'd guess, probably 1% like most other mount drops, but the bag was 5% so maybe not), and fighting over it with up to nine other people if and when it did finally drop. Moving the mount to the bag had two positives for mount collectors: with the Blue in 5-mans, Blizzard moved the Azure to include both 10- and 25-man Malygos, giving raiders who were able to get the groups for it two chances at the Azure drake a week. The Blue, on the other hand, wasn't limited at all, except by your play time and your ability to stomach running random after random (and your skill at manipulating your average item level so you could knock down your possible randoms from 1/16 to 1/12—I was never very good at that, all my gear having been 264+, so I always recruited someone's green machine alt to run randoms with me when I could). There were several days, when Rowend (my protadin friend) and I both had nothing more pressing to do with our time, that we ran over 50 randoms before one or both of us couldn't wait for the other to get tired and give up for the day. For CTA, players who have access to the Call will be able to bypass the 5 instance cap (instances opened via LFD count towards your cap, but will not be affected if you're already at cap)—that is, a tank/healer with CTA available can run 5x Strat and then queue for LFD and continue having chances at Baron's Deathcharger, instead of having to wait the 30m-1h for their instance cap to expire. Similarly, if a CTA-eligible player has already locked themselves to Heroic Sethekk and Heroic Magister's Terrace, they will be able to continue to run dungeons in search of those mounts instead of waiting until 9am the next day for another shot.
My tank friend told me once that the "only reason" he was willing to run the instances with me was because it was a good source of gold (and epic gem transmute mats, when we did finally get Oculus). I suspect he had other motives (like friendship!), but he's a cagey sort and it's hard to get a straight/complete answer out of him some days ;P I certainly know he made a bundle betting with other guildmates against me getting the mount on any given run, though! If the CTA gold/gem reward is sufficient, I can see him going back to running randoms all day long like we did in Wrath, because it'll be the most efficient way for him to make money (well, he'll also have to get bored of Rift in order to care, but y'know how it is). The big difference here is that because the reward will be tied to him solo-queuing, we DPS won't be able to tag along for the ride anymore unless we bribe him (which we do nowadays for alts, since everyone's mains have everything they need). Additionally, he won't have to wait for the Cataclysm-equivalent of Oculus to pop up in order to make the extra money because every random he does will fork it over at the end.
From a purely selfish perspective, every random I do on my shaman is a random I don't need, unless it's Stonecore or Vortex Pinnacle (and chances are it'll be a useless run there too, since I've never seen either drake drop). Why aren't I rewarded for helping out people who still need the gear and the valor points? Where's my "stick me in the queue to prop up a group's DPS and give me a mount" bag? Or better, where's my "okay I'm not called to arms, I don't need the instances, I'll leave my spot in the queue open to a DPS who cares... now take away the instance cap so I can keep farming strat until my eyes bleed, not until the server says I can't anymore"?
(If I could tank on my shaman, I would. Unfortunately, my guild needed the wrong hybrid when I rerolled from my warrior at the end of twitch-inducing Hyjal tanking, so I only have one tree I enjoy, not 2-3 :\)
I had a lot more I was going to say here, going into some of the drawbacks of the Oculus bag on the overall tone of Wrath heroics, but without my Big Book 'o Dataz I can't really back it up... and I've hit character cap. Oops.
Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
I don't know what would be a good move, but this isn't it. The money and flasks, even extra honor/justice points would be fine. But I don't think pets and mounts are the right way to go about it.
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- Xella
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
Call To Arms: You are needed as a [role] to vanquish the foes of the [faction name here]! Upon completion of this random dungeon, your party will receive [Call To Arms goodies].
Would that be a better implementation? CTA'd folks solo-queueing would get into a group, and upon completion, EVERYONE in that group got a bag of goodies because the tank/healer was CTA'd. It still encourages tanks and healers to solo queue when its their turn on the LFD wheel 'o fortune, but DPS aren't left out in the cold because if they get paired with a CTA'd tank/healer, they still get some reward. Meanwhile, if they got paired with a tank/healer who was queuing with a partial group, they'd get the potential benefit of it being a partial guild group and the dungeon going faster. DPS wouldn't get the benefit every time but in theory they'd still get SOME benefit, including (hopefully) the shorter queue times.
I'm not sure if that dilutes the "you're special and we want you to queue so have some goodies" that the CTA as explained by Blizzard has too much, though.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
I think by "cross-faction pets" it means things like the mini pets sold at/near each capital (SW's cats, Org's snakes, TB's P. Dawgs, Darn's Owls, IF's Hares, UC's Roaches, SMV's Dragonhawks, and Exodar's Moths.), and MAYBE (I'm iffy on this one) the Argent Tourney pets.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
I like this MUCH better. Everyone gets a reward for cooperating.Xella wrote:I wonder.
Call To Arms: You are needed as a [role] to vanquish the foes of the [faction name here]! Upon completion of this random dungeon, your party will receive [Call To Arms goodies].
Would that be a better implementation? CTA'd folks solo-queueing would get into a group, and upon completion, EVERYONE in that group got a bag of goodies because the tank/healer was CTA'd. It still encourages tanks and healers to solo queue when its their turn on the LFD wheel 'o fortune, but DPS aren't left out in the cold because if they get paired with a CTA'd tank/healer, they still get some reward. Meanwhile, if they got paired with a tank/healer who was queuing with a partial group, they'd get the potential benefit of it being a partial guild group and the dungeon going faster. DPS wouldn't get the benefit every time but in theory they'd still get SOME benefit, including (hopefully) the shorter queue times.
I'm not sure if that dilutes the "you're special and we want you to queue so have some goodies" that the CTA as explained by Blizzard has too much, though.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
Tanks and healers will que (this is the whole point of it), shorter que times as a result, and everyone benefits. (And hopefully they'll give this to WotLK heroics and TBC heroics and get rid of the requirement where you need keys to unlock TBC heroics)
As well as posting this here, im gonna post it on that Call to Arms page i posted
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
We can't say whether it's good or bad at this point because it's not even in effect.
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
^ and raid warnings.Xakaal wrote:I would really like if they reduced the timer on party kicks since party kicking someone puts that invisible debuff on you for 2 hours regardless on if your in the same dungeon as when you initiated it or not. Really pisses me off when i run into a f*ed up group that cant even make it to the first boss so that i can leave without getting a debuff
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
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Re: Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
And before someone miscontrues what I'm saying: I'm not saying that DPS are pointless and worthless and that we don't ever need them. Obviously we need DPS otherwise dungeons would take forever, and in some cases, be unable to be completed. My main point being that our job as a DPS is typically far more relaxed and we're easier to carry than a tank or healer.
The bag regardless idea, I think, would only happen IF the tank or healer queue and their roll is being called to arms, otherwise no one would get a bag.
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