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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:47 am 
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Illustrious Master Hunter
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Purr I think why people are lashing out at you was because in your posts you seemed to keep on mentioned 'dps can just QQ over it' and you also kept mentioning how you liked everyone QQ over getting no mounts or pets, and It also looked like you signed up for the forums just to do this..? just some advice buddy but thats called trolling and if this is your first time on the internet I would say to try and make your posts less threating so you aren't trolling
Im also not trying to be offensive in anyway this is just advice

/rerail

Im not too found of this :| I mean hoinestly what did blizz expect out of this? yeah sure tanks and healers get awards but I think they should do something for the dps to, and not just forcing us to waste our money on the action house to buy mounts

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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:49 am 
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While I think I'd still prefer it if your group ended up getting a CTA'd person -> bags for all (see pages 4+5), the BoA change is a step in the right direction. If I don't feel like tanking, I don't have to do so, but I still have the OPTION of doing so for a chance at the goodies my main is missing. Still not entirely pleased, but we'll see how much affect this change ACTUALLY makes on queue times. If DPS queues drop from 45 minutes to 30 minutes... I still won't queue on anything and my alts will essentially rot at 85 in greens + BoE blues/epics. If it drops down to 10-20 minutes (like it was when we used the smaller battlegroups), I'll actually start queuing again, both on DPS alts and on tank/healing alts.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:53 am 
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Jessibelle wrote:
Agreed totally. I've tried tanking too and got possibly the most assholish group ever and much like with healing, I swore off tanking. Goodies won't make me come back to it.


So... you post that both tanking and healing are extremely hard and you'll never do it, but you can't see why it might not be a bad idea to give a few freebies to the people who are willing to take on those two jobs? Seriously?

As someone else pointed out, a failtank or failheal usually means TPK, which means they won't finish the instance, which means they won't get the precious sparkly bag. That work for you? On the other hand, you can carry one or two bad DPS through an instance, with a good tank, healer, and one good DPS. What does that say to you about the relative importance of these class roles, in casual play?

And oh, heaven forfend someone should get a drop mount from classic/TBC. It was such hard work, running those instances as a level 80 (and now 85) faceroller; why, once I fell asleep on the keyboard and hit the wrong button and it took the bosses 5 seconds longer to die!

Honestly, "hard work". Don't be silly.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:55 am 
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Disclaimer: "you" generalised.

For the record, I pretty much agree with everything Purr has said.

As someone with a hunter main, druid tank alt, and priest heal alt (amongst others), I certainly think the goodie bags are an excellent idea for tanks or healers who have to pug. If you have not experienced tanking or healing in a level 85 Cataclysm heroic pug, I personally feel you're unable to really appreciate exactly how stressful it is. If you are lucky, you'll get a good tank who is reasonable to heal (or uses CC), a nice healer who can manage their mana, and three DPS who stand in the right places and respect the wishes of the tank and the healer when it comes to CC. How many times have I ever had a heroic dungeon like that? Perhaps once or twice. Tanking and healing in heroics is *hard*. It's not just unpleasant or bothersome, it's truly difficult - even with "good gear", some pulls or some group makeups struggle.

The extra valour points suggestion has been shot down a couple of times but I'll repeat: if you want to get good tanks and healers, there is no need for additional valour points. I've been selling off the VP boots on my toons because I don't need them and I don't want them... even more so when the remade troll heroics come out and we can get even MORE valour points. The boots are already selling piss cheap on my server... We don't need more valour points. Just because your particular guild or friends or even in some extreme cases server (though I doubt the latter) is behind as far as valour rewards go, does not mean the rest of the 6 million WoW players are in agreement there. Anyone who is considered a "good" tank or healer (aka geared) at this point in game will have absolutely no need for valour, not even for offsets (who else's guild is disenchanting more epics from raids than they actually use?).

I don't see the reason for a huge flare up in regards to mounts dropping. This change isn't exactly going to make them common! They're still rare, still hard to get, and you're still much much more likely to get the mount drop from farming the instance than the off-chance you will a) complete a full pug heroic, b) get your goodie bag with a mount in it and c) it is a mount you don't have/want. It's still very minimal. If you have farmed mounts before you'll know the drop rate chances. Sure, there's a possibility Joe Blow will rock up, pug a heroic and get is white chicken in his first goodie bag: just as there's a chance you'd get it first run too. It's chance.

Sure, I've managed personally to handle the long queue times. I either ask a guildie to tank or heal to reduce queue times, or I'll use the 30-45 min queue to have a shower, eat, clean, tab out and do other things... Very rarely will I just sit there and stare at the game waiting. :P But if I instead can't run with guildies and get to wait for 5 minutes, with a similar amount of luck in regards to a good group or a bad group, either kick the bads or pull them through (which I have to do 95% of the time anyway), can finally complete the run and go on my merry way, I can use the additional half hour I would have had to wait to farm for that mount I want! :P Win-win.

So yeah. I'm really quite happy with the BOA thing, possible rewards etc; if I get Anzu again or something my Druid can have it, if I get white hawkchicken my hunter can take it... I'm content. I'm more interested in seeing the list of mounts we can get from the bags! My Shammy would have loved the blue Occy drake but it's essentially impossible for her to get now... That'd be really cool :D

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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:00 am 
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Commett, thank you for wording my feelings on this matter so much more eloquently than I was able. :D :hug:

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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:03 am 
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Thats why I believe that anyone who ques in this manner, the entire group that completes the dungeon with that parson should also get a goody bag.

"Any time the Dungeon Finder queue is longer than a few minutes for level-85 Heroics, the Call to Arms system kicks in and determines which role is the least represented. In the case of tanking being the least represented role, the "Call to Arms: Tanks" icon will display in the Dungeon Finder UI menu where class roles are selected, and will also display on the UI when the queue pops and you are selected to enter a dungeon. Regardless of your role, you'll always be able to see which role currently has been Called to Arms, if any.
Call to Arms is meant to lower wait times by offering additional rewards for queuing as the currently least represented role. To be eligible for the additional rewards you must solo queue for a random level-85 Heroic in the role that is currently being Called to Arms, and complete the dungeon by killing the final boss. Every time you hit these requirements (there is no daily limit) you'll receive a goodie bag that will contain some gold, a chance at a rare gem, a chance at a flask/potion, a good chance of receiving a non-combat pet (including cross faction pets), and a very rare chance at receiving a mount. The pets offered come from a wide variety of sources, and include companions like the Razzashi Hatchling, Cockatiel, and Tiny Sporebat, but the mounts are those specifically only available through dungeons (not raids), like the Reins of the Raven Lord from Sethekk Halls, Swift White Hawkstrider from Magister's Terrace, and Deathcharger's Reins from Stratholme."

Since Tanks and healers are the shortest supply, and DPS is most promenent, DPS will be the least likely class ever to get the goody bag. And as such will be slighted by this change.

As for the bag being BoA, thats great...if you have a tank or healer to use for lv 85 heroics...then you can send the bag to whatever of your characters you want to have the loot. But people who do not have tanks/healers and only have dPS will most probably never see this goody bag.

Hence why I really think that to make this fair for EVERYONE, is that if ANY member of the random party ques in this fashion, the whole party gets this goodybag at the end.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:08 am 
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These arguments are starting to go in circles. I'm starting to think we should just lock the thread until we actually see how this works out in live.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:10 am 
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Im going to agree with makoes here, its nice for tank and healers but this is a game right? games are ment for fun, especally since we pay 15$ a mouth to play, I think everybody to be able to enjoy what thier playing for, it honestly doesn't matter if your a dps at heart or not blizzard should treat all thier costumers fairly, if they do this I say they also do something so that dps people cna also get something good, that way its fair

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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:14 am 
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TygerDarkstorm wrote:
These arguments are starting to go in circles. I'm starting to think we should just lock the thread until we actually see how this works out in live.


Im starting to think that might be best too, gonna pm Moderator, 4.1 should be out soon, hopefully before Childrens Week begins -shrug-

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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:20 am 
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rubybeam wrote:
Im going to agree with makoes here, its nice for tank and healers but this is a game right? games are ment for fun, especally since we pay 15$ a mouth to play, I think everybody to be able to enjoy what thier playing for, it honestly doesn't matter if your a dps at heart or not blizzard should treat all thier costumers fairly, if they do this I say they also do something so that dps people cna also get something good, that way its fair

That argument doesn't make players entitled to get whatever they want. You pay Blizzard to produce a good quality game, which is what they've been doing for seven years.

If people making that argument got their way, this game would be in a pretty sorry state and things would be handed to you on a silver platter even more than they already are.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:28 am 
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Out of all honesty though, I feel hurt by this change im sorry. Right now I know im being a little bitch and complaining about this but, some of those old instances are REALLY hard to get into and chances are there only dps only wanting to be going, I know the chances in the bag are rare but I think its a better way than searching for groups just to find the old instances for tanks and healers they just got to go que and do it alot, dps got spent all day looking for some damned little group to go get thier dream mount, and theres a good chance thier not going to get it, even at that ninja looters might take this chance to loot the mounts for money by needing it, I know healers and tanks face plently of stress and I know its hard but sometimes you have to think about everybody

Sorry for any swaring or any hostility I may provided. I was not trying and I may just be in a grumpy mood

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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:33 am 
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You can solo every single one of those old instances for the mounts--it's been said a dozen times in this thread. Your post makes little sense as the mounts in question for tanks and healers are pretty easily obtained anymore, and there's no ninja looting involved.

You really want to make sure you get your dream mount without it getting stolen? Solo it or group with friends you trust, not a PuG anyway. That's common sense.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:55 am 
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Man so this is only for easly soloable mounts? and not like say something like the blue proto thats a bit hard to solo? I'm fine with this. I mean I can handle a few bad heals and tanks as they don't piss me off as much as DPS who aggro more mobs or think cos they have a tank pet they can tank something while the tanks busy.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:57 am 
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Locking this topic for excessive circularity. (It's going around in circles. Angry circles.)


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