New looting system

[meepitco]

http://www.wowheadnews.com/blog=196083/ ... -3d-models
All can be found there, but Druid tanks are screwed now.

[MaximumOverdrive]

How are druid tanks screwed?

[meepitco]

I think it was stated in the comments there, but it would be like this:
Druid tank rolls a 89 on a Agil/Stam anything
Rogue rolls a 59 on it.
At least to what I read, the rogue would end up winning it, regaurdless that the druid might of needed it. Unless this is wrong, I could see that happening.

[Chimera]

cause staves and polearms are considered dps weapons, not tank weapons, and druids cant wear anything else so if they sign up as tank role, they automatically lose the roll on the weapon to a hunter or dps kitty druid without even a single effort-- same for armor too (to kitty druids and rogues as meep mentioned)

because this is the Raid Finder, its not a coordinated group so no one but the druid and whoever was grouped with them when they qued would know that the druid wants to be the tank but signed up as a dps to have access to their proper armor/weapons

[MaximumOverdrive]

Well they're specifically setting the items to somewhat role specific. Well being a tank they might get priority. Right now they're still working out the details...but it might just be that they will have to roll against the rogue, just like the plate tanks have to roll against each other. The druids aren't any worse off.

As for weapons...the tanks can roll on it...the stuff can be for more than one role ya know...

[Kalliope]

The druid tank would only be screwed if that piece of gear was flagged as dps only. Since there are a lot of pieces that overlap, I'm assuming that agility leather wouldn't necessarily be flagged for dps only.

However, if an owl rolled against both of them and won in this little scenario, it doesn't look like the rogue or tank would be protected because:

Please keep in mind that, at least for now, this system will only look at class role, and not player spec.

[meepitco]

*nods* It seems I came out a little wrong on my first post. This is probably still in the process of being worked out, so it could change any moment. From what I just read, it kind of made me think of that scenario, along with reading one of the comments on that post.

[MaximumOverdrive]

*nods* It seems I came out a little wrong on my first post. This is probably still in the process of being worked out, so it could change any moment. From what I just read, it kind of made me think of that scenario, along with reading one of the comments on that post.

It's ok...it's a new system so there's always confusion at first...plus this still hasn't been finalized yet and can change alot.

[Worba]

Yes - they are going to be flagging dungeon drops 1 at a time, not by weapon type, so for example a polearm or staff could be flagged for tanks if it had tank stats, else it would probably be dps.

Same idea with AGI/STA gear - if it was AGI/STA/DODGE then probably tank, etc etc.

I think this is good for tanks and DPS; I'm a bit concerned about healers as they might be a little harder (?) to differentiate from a lock or mage, but overall it's a big nod to common sense and I hope they expand it to 5 mans like they said they were considering... even if it only applies to new content.

[Chimera]

feral druids take the same weapons and stats as hunters (focusing on weps in this sentence), so it'd need to be flagged as dps & tank, so that if a bear tank were to fight against a hunter, the tank would win. Same for armor, rogues and ferals, both specc's use the same armor, they'd need to make it dps & tank so that the bear tank could compete and win since they are a more important role. Without well geared tanks and healers, the raids would ultimately fall apart because regardles of how buffed up your dps is, if the tank dies, the healer is usually their next target and everyone dies in a domino effect.

And i say this as a feral dps kitty who wants to rip the heads off bear tanks and rogues because they win the gear i really want >.> my feral cat is my most well geared character for the amount of content ive done (which is more like early cata content) and the luck i had in getting drops from dungeons and raids and the purchases i made from the valor vendor (which is now the JP vendor)

[Lisaara]

I'm a cat and a bear druid. I don't see how this makes anyone screwed, especially since nothing is set in stone yet. So...no sense getting our fur in a bunch over something they said they're still working on.

[Meggers]

Too late Jessi, I'm bunched. -looks for brush- D:

[Lisaara]

Too late Jessi, I'm bunched. -looks for brush- D:

Dont make me start givin wedgies around here! *stomps her paw* You'll walk like a male night elf! XD

[Worba]

Had a look over some of the high end druid gear and... yeah. I see what you mean about bear tanks - aside from the druid set bonuses (which you'd expect being drud valor gear) all I saw was generic DPS stats. So if those stats are a guide, then that would raise the question of how exactly does one piece of AGI/STA gear become flagged as a "tank" item while the next is left for rogues and hunters to fight over.

Ah well. I still think it's a step in the right direction, and presumably this sort of question is already being taken into consideration as they flesh it out, strange as it seems from the outside looking in.

[Kalliope]

I'd also like to point out that many clothie pieces (certainly in Firelands) drop without spirit and hit, so healers will still be duking it out with casters for the same gear. Those pieces are intended for both groups, so everyone's entitled to roll. Druid tanks would be rolling against rogues/hunters for certain pieces already. So I personally am not concerned about that.

It's the owls rolling need on offspec feral gear that they might win because the system won't be looking at spec that worry me.

[Lisaara]

I'd also like to point out that many clothie pieces (certainly in Firelands) drop without spirit and hit, so healers will still be duking it out with casters for the same gear. Those pieces are intended for both groups, so everyone's entitled to roll. Druid tanks would be rolling against rogues/hunters for certain pieces already. So I personally am not concerned about that.

It's the owls rolling need on offspec feral gear that they might win because the system won't be looking at spec that worry me.

^ This

[Worba]

I'd also like to point out that many clothie pieces (certainly in Firelands) drop without spirit and hit, so healers will still be duking it out with casters for the same gear. Those pieces are intended for both groups, so everyone's entitled to roll. Druid tanks would be rolling against rogues/hunters for certain pieces already. So I personally am not concerned about that.

It's the owls rolling need on offspec feral gear that they might win because the system won't be looking at spec that worry me.

/nod

Comparatively though it does tend to favor plate tanks, e.g. bears will be proceeding at the current pace while plate tanks will only be competing vs eachother by simple virtue of plate wearers using specialized stats that can easily be flagged.

[Kalliope]

I'd also like to point out that many clothie pieces (certainly in Firelands) drop without spirit and hit, so healers will still be duking it out with casters for the same gear. Those pieces are intended for both groups, so everyone's entitled to roll. Druid tanks would be rolling against rogues/hunters for certain pieces already. So I personally am not concerned about that.

It's the owls rolling need on offspec feral gear that they might win because the system won't be looking at spec that worry me.

/nod

Comparatively though it does tend to favor plate tanks, e.g. bears will be proceeding at the current pace while plate tanks will only be competing vs eachother by simple virtue of plate wearers using specialized stats that can easily be flagged.

Except....that's not actually the case. Much like agility pieces and cloth pieces, strength plate also can have ambiguous stats, where the piece can go either way, depending on reforging.

I was using cloth as an example, but this is really something that's happened across the board.

[Worba]

It's not ambiguous when you have some pieces that drop with stats like +dodge (and reforging is irrelevant to loot priority), which is the case with plate but not leather*, e.g. when the pool of possibilities includes representatives of both stat types, then it becomes feasible to say X is a tank item and Y is a DPS item, whereas in the case of bears there are no really distinctive armor stats to create that sort of logical divide.

The bigger question as I see it is, since they've said DPS will have it's own flagging, how is that even going to be implemented - e.g. by going to such creative lengths to make bears work with DPS stats (so that a feral druid can be tank or DPS without the bother of even needing to switch armor, I guess), are all AGI/STA items going to remain "unflagged" so that those who could make best use of them still get the best shot at them, or what.

*From what I've seen - any high lvl bears feel free to correct me - remember though I said armor not things like amulets, rings, cloaks, etc.

[Lisaara]

It's not ambiguous when you have some pieces that drop with stats like +dodge (and reforging is irrelevant to loot priority), which is the case with plate but not leather*, e.g. when the pool of possibilities includes representatives of both stat types, then it becomes feasible to say X is a tank item and Y is a DPS item, whereas in the case of bears there are no really distinctive armor stats to create that sort of logical divide.

The bigger question as I see it is, since they've said DPS will have it's own flagging, how is that even going to be implemented - e.g. by going to such creative lengths to make bears work with DPS stats (so that a feral druid can be tank or DPS without the bother of even needing to switch armor, I guess), are all AGI/STA items going to remain "unflagged" so that those who could make best use of them still get the best shot at them, or what.

*From what I've seen - any high lvl bears feel free to correct me - remember though I said armor not things like amulets, rings, cloaks, etc.

Yeah we dont usually have to change armor HOWEVER we do need to change gems and enchants on the armor.