Patch 5.0 speculation on MMO plus my own thoughts....

[Kalliope]

Going to copy that into the first post, Mia. It's an excellent point.

[Gimlion]

With Thrall no longer leading, i can see that Garrosh wants to make a big statement to say that he wants war, he wants a bloody war, he doesnt want to be pushed around and abide by rules. He doesnt know Jaina like Thrall does, he didnt live the life Thrall did so he has nothing holding him back and he wants to take what he believes is rightfully the hordes. Jaina is the ruler of a kingdom but a small one, its essentially a kingdom built around a port in a land that is alien and hostile, against the full might of the horse she would have to flee, reinforcments couldnt come quick enough without the use of magic which would leave her and her magi exausted and defenceless. As much as i love Jaina, i love this story line more

Not only that, but really, Jaina's ties to Thrall AND Varian has mostly kept the disputes to meetings and minor acts of conflict. If Garrosh is willing to zerg Theramore, I don't see Jaina being able to control Varian or convince him not to retaliate. Theramore is a huge access point into Horde territory, and losing it could very well set off the ill-tempered Varian (Who's still one of my favorite characters, and I'll defend his anger towards the Orcs forever).

I disagree on the supplies and reinforcements though. The Night Elves and the Draeni have much of Norther Kalimdor protected and controlled, and it would not be difficult to direct troops from there, especially with the Northrend Port in Borean so close, as well as the transport from SW and IF. Who knows, maybe the dwarves will build an even larger underground train that takes us to Alliance-Kalimdor?

I would also like to say this: I can't possibly imagine Garrosh has enough supplies after assisting in the defeat of Deathwing to launch such a major assault on Theramore.

[Chimera]

With durotar literally sitting above theramore, thunder bluff directly west, i can definitely see him having troops sent through the barrens into the marsh, and maybe not ship due to it being a port, and that they'd need to go past northwatch hold, it might be too dangerous, but perhaps air ship the short distance and land in the marsh and overtake them, the act of holding a portal open long enough to bring in enough troops needed would seriously tax the magi and the horde will be a living barrier between the night elves and draenei trying to come to theramores rescue so they'd have to wait for help from northrend, if help did come, and if it did, the horde will probably have destroyed a fair chunk of theramore in that time and still leave Jaina and her magi taxed as they try to protect the town from damage and repel the invaders.

I cant wait to see how Varian reacts xD

[Arwyn]

After the attack on Theramore, I'm wondering IF they do plan to make the Alliance attack some important Horde town/outpost in order make a solid reason for the other faction leaders to follow Garrosh. I mean they could just as easily say, you caused the problem, you fix the problem.

[RHMakonea]

After the attack on Theramore, I'm wondering IF they do plan to make the Alliance attack some important Horde town/outpost in order make a solid reason for the other faction leaders to follow Garrosh. I mean they could just as easily say, you caused the problem, you fix the problem.

Hopefully this gives leeway to the horde kicking out Garrosh

[Kayb]

Gotta say, I can't see Garrosh leading the Horde for a huge amount of time longer. I think towards the very end of MoP, he'll be out. I'm not sure that Thrall will resume the mantle, some other Orc may rise to it. But Garrosh? Nope, I honestly can't see them keeping him

[AdamSavage]

This just in, Zarhym posted something about this news!

http://i.wow.joystiq.com/2011/10/24/zar ... -pandaria/

I have him on Twitter, He just started recently posting on twitter some of his blue posts and upcoming stuff.

[Kalliope]

Gotta say, I can't see Garrosh leading the Horde for a huge amount of time longer. I think towards the very end of MoP, he'll be out. I'm not sure that Thrall will resume the mantle, some other Orc may rise to it. But Garrosh? Nope, I honestly can't see them keeping him

This sounds suspiciously like a great excuse to make Garrosh a raid boss so both factions can kill him for the good of all.

Kind of counters the theme of MoP, though, so possibly not. :/

[Kayb]

I dunno, if he's driving the war, then getting rid of him could end it

[Kalliope]

Yeah, he might be an end-of-expansion boss in that case. Hmm...

[Kayb]

that'd make a loooooooooot of folks very happy, lol

[Magli]

Well, remember that Sylvanas is also up to no good--there's been speculation that she's a potential raid boss too. Honestly, I think Blizzard likes the way they can use Garrosh and Varian to escalate tensions between the Alliance and the Horde, so I think he's safe for a while.

If Theramore does get sacked, I predict that a significant Horde settlement will get hit in a retaliation raid sometime mid-expansion. Didn't they say at Blizzcon that Jaina was about to get seriously bad-ass? This'll give her an excuse.

Another thought: what will Thrall be up to during all this? He's no longer Warchief, but he should still have some loyalists in Horde leadership.

[Kalliope]

Also, there was some commentary regarding Varian getting some character development....lemme find it...

From the Lore and Story Q&A:

Ive played Alliance for 7 years *crowd woos* you have done a wonderful job with the Horde story, and its really great but when it comes to Varian he is a boring and 1 dimensional characters. Does Alliance ever get to kick ass in WoW?

Heres the deal, part of the Thrall thing I have been pushing, I particularly love that character. I dont see that as a Horde issue but as a Thrall issue. Im biased. Heres what we are going to do: I dont know exactly where its going to drop, we are tyrying to get this for 5.0. Varian has the possibility to be a very awesome char. There will be a really awesome questline where Varian really shines out as a character. You will be his squire and will help Varian be an awesome character. And all the Alliance races WILL worship Varian as a true king.

The Alliance is going to need a king that has his shit together. We are going to need this for MoP. We owe the alliance big time! We are also going to explore the various relationships with Andruin (his son), before Christie Golden wrote the shattering we had no plans for Anduin. Its all thanks to Christie that Anduin has been such an important character.

We got some plans for that boy one day, so there you have it.

Basically, the Horde leaders have been getting better character development than the Alliance ones for years (in WoW; I'm not looking at outside sources, so don't start in on me for that).

Horde:
- Kael'thas defected before getting killed and replaced (who?). Lor'themar has been a terrible followup, but hey, at least Kael'thas was interesting.
- Sylvanas has gone further away from being a victim to being more of a victimizer; Wrathgate wasn't her idea and it made her look bad, but continuing to create undead in Cata was.
- Vol'jin has gotten to kick some serious troll booty in Cata, both retaking the Echo Isles and battling the Zandalari.
- Cairne was killed and replaced. Baine's in an interesting position, but hasn't done anything big with it yet (understandably).
- I don't need to elaborate on Thrall and Garrosh. There're plenty of possibilities here for the future, and we've gotten to know Thrall better than any of the other leaders, just by virtue of Cata alone. He's just a cool character. Garrosh himself has grown changed as a character as well. Love him, hate him, at least he's gone through development.
- Gallywix is a nonfactor. Every single non-dk goblin who wasn't a race changer was his rival. On the other hand, he could always find financial backing elsewhere...maybe.

Alliance:
- Varian had been missing, but was returned years ago. Since then, he's mostly wavered on his attitude toward the Horde, either wanting to go to war or not, depending on his mood and what serves the plot better. Anduin's grown up, which is a bit more interesting.
- Mekkatorque won the gnomes a small part of Gnomer, but that was it. The instance didn't even get a heroic version, so all their battling is in lowbie areas. Leaves the future open, but the past and present lacking.
- Magni got turned to stone, which prompted the Council of the Three Hammers to take over. Muradin's return in Wrath was cool, but didn't actually change anything until Magni got iced. Moira's child is still around somewhere...depending on how many years it takes for said child to grow up, we may be nearing an appearance.
- Velen hasn't done anything gamebreaking that I'm aware of, short of being consulted a few times.
- Tyrande popped up in Mount Hyjal (the raid), but that was in the past, so she hasn't really done much either that I'm aware of, probably because....
- Jaina is a bonus for the alliance, and she does much of the heavy lifting in terms of leadership, since Varian is often busy being a meathead dealing with his past and hatred of the horde. Unfortunately, being a peacekeeper doesn't allow for a lot of character development. If MoP upsets the balance, I expect that Jaina will become a lot more interesting.
- Genn is interesting because unlike Gallywix, he was always in a position of power amongst his people. Unsure whether he'll have anything to do, though. We shall see!

TL;DR - the horde's definitely gone through more upheaval, but the alliance has a lot of potential. We'll see where this goes.

[Sukurachi]

Avenge Camp Taurajo!!!!!!!!!!

[Cerah]

I'm actually really upset about this news, and I play Horde! Theramore has been the only major Alliance settlement in Southern Kalimdor since WCIII, and was founded by survivors of Lorderan, people who understandably thought the Scourge were going to take over the entire Eastern Kingdoms, and were simply trying to survive in a new land -- no different from the Orcs in founding Durotar. Thrall and Jaina's friendship has been a beacon of hope in their violent world. They have been living examples and inspirations, who proved that humans and Orcs could work together peacefully, if they only tried.

Frankly, we haven't heard anything at all from Jaina since WotLK, and even then, her last major lore moment was crying over Arthas' death (and he was a jerk even before he was a death knight). I want an explaination as to why she's even allowing the Alliance's push into the Southern Barrens. It just seems so out of character for her. You could argue that it's Stormwind's doing, not hers, but Theramore is supposed to be an independent kingdom. Jaina may not have the title of Queen, but she is Varian's equal, not his underling. Varian is merely the King of Stormwind and its surrounding villages (hehe, that makes him King of Goldshire) -- he's not, and never was, the King of All Humans.

I can see Garrosh attacking Theramore, because he's a complete and utter a**hole (as my Orc Hunter puts it, he's so full of s***, it turned him brown), but I can't see Thrall approving, if and when he ever comes back. Maybe this attack on his friend and ally is what finally forces Thrall to retake the mantle of Warchief.

Finally, I don't care if the game is called World of Warcraft, it's only called that because the original RTS games were called Warcraft. You don't see people nitpicking the "Star" in Starcraft, do you? I see Mists of Pandaria as an opportunity to finally have world peace in Azeroth (at least between the Alliance and the Horde), with the Panderen themselves being the ultimate agents of peace, tranquility, and understanding. That's why I'm looking forward to making my Panderen, to help usher in that era.

War may be "exciting", but no one wants it to last forever. When would you rather live? Now, or during the Cold War, where every day people feared the US and USSR were going to nuke each other into oblivion, and take the rest of the world with them? I, for one, am grateful that I don't live in a world of constant warfare, that instead we live in one of peace between the major powers. Yes, we have problems like terrorism, but face it. There's no way in hell that all the terrorists in all the world could destroy one city, never mind nations. They're never going to destroy the world, not like the threat of real, nuclear warfare very well could. Azeroth may be a fictional world, but I'm sure everyone there would prefer a world more like ours than like the mid 20th century's.

[Kayb]

Theramore is part of the Alliance, and Wrynn is the head of the Alliance. So yeah, if Theramore wants to stay a part of the Alliance then it has to be prepared to follow the orders given by the organization's head. If Jaina didn't want Theramore to stand alone in Kalimdor, there's gonna be plenty of shutting up and putting up on her part.

Maybe she should join the Horde

[Cerah]

Theramore is part of the Alliance, and Wrynn is the head of the Alliance. So yeah, if Theramore wants to stay a part of the Alliance then it has to be prepared to follow the orders given by the organization's head. If Jaina didn't want Theramore to stand alone in Kalimdor, there's gonna be plenty of shutting up and putting up on her part.

Maybe she should join the Horde

Wyrnn isn't head of the Alliance. The Alliance isn't organized like the Horde -- Wyrnn is not the "Warchief", the head of the whole thing. Instead, each Alliance leader is the sole leader (plural, on the dwarves part) of their respective faction, with each being completely equal to the others. Remember, Wyrnn spent Vanilla WoW and BC missing in action, so he could not have led the whole thing back then, even if he wanted to. Yes, he played a leadership role in Northrend, but there, you could see him more as a general, a military leader. It was not political.

Wyrnn cannot order Jaina to do anything, especially not in her own kingdom, no more than he could order Tyrande, Velen, or any other Alliance leader. To use a real world analogy, Jaina is not not the Hiliary Clinton to Wyrnn's Obama. She's more like Angela Merkel -- a world leader in her own right, an equal, and Wyrnn has to respect that, whether he likes it or not.

[Yaone]

Wonder what Baine will think, as I recall in The Shattering, Baine and Jaina seemed to hit it off pretty well. Anduin also for that matter. I mean, she did help him out when it was thought that Garrosh had murdered Cairne with the Grimtotems.

[Makoes]

I have to agree with some of the commenters in the link. I'd like to see this as an interactive event. Suddenly finding theramore destroyed one day with no call to arms for alliance players to even TRY to prevent the invasion...just doesnt seem right at all. I'd like to see the distruction of theramore occure ofer a period of time with quests/objectives to move the story and/or phasing along. And I would like to know just what Horde are going to suffer to equal alliances loss...

[Mindsprocket]

Well, it's said to be part of a world event, so I guess it'll be like the taking of the Echo Isles/Gnomeregan. And after that it could be a BG or maybe world PvP? That would fit with the general theme of MoP. Though a questing area or even a dungeon could also work. In any case, I doubt that Thermaore will just turn into hole in the ground from one day to the next.