Aggresive Stance, do you want it back?

Slickrock
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Re: Aggresive Stance, do you want it back?

Unread post by Slickrock »

Yes, yes, yes. They will never give it to us, but yes.

The new stance is buggy at best, but they want to force you to have to command your pet to attack, and otherwise it's sitting by your side. The new defensive is terrible, especially in raiding fights. On spine, I'm never quite sure what my pet will do.

I loved the way the old aggressive would work. I could tell my pet to attack one target, and then I could work on another mob, boss mechanic, add, etc. There's no way to do that reliably now.
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Re: Aggresive Stance, do you want it back?

Unread post by Ziarre »

Here's how it works: new Defensive will stay on the mob you tell it to attack until it dies. If it's not already attacking something and something hits you, it will attack that.

I frequently use it for Blackhorn so that it's attacking the vrykul adds/Blackhorn while I'm working on the drakes/Goriana. Now and then I'll have to manually send it in, but both have enough aoe/randomly targeted things going on that they're bound to irk my pet before long. On Spine, I tend to use it or Passive since the fight's more about control and burst than sustained dps.
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Re: Aggresive Stance, do you want it back?

Unread post by Rawr »

Ziarre wrote:Uh...you can still tell them to switch targets manually (just like old times!) when you don't want to wait. They wouldn't switch targets at all until told to, was the only difference back then. And, yes, they'd run back to you and then turn around to run to a mob...I remember that quite well. I remember hoping Assist would fix it. :P
Don't be wishy-washy you said in your other post "You just gotta understand how Assist works, is all--if already attacking a mob, it requires a few seconds of damage on the new mob so that it knows you're sure about switching targets." If it requires a few seconds before the pet decides to attack what I told them to that's waiting. And with the old defensive stance I never remember them having the bugs they have now, the running back and what not, that was my biggest complaint with them they replaced something that worked with something that didn't. :mrgreen:

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Re: Aggresive Stance, do you want it back?

Unread post by SpiritBinder »

Ziarre wrote:You mean, the way Assist works now but without smart target switching? xP Seriously, that's pretty much the only difference between Assist and old Defensive.


I will have to respectfully disagree with you on this one, for my own personal reasons and observations.. Personally, there is more difference between Old Aggressive and the New Assist, compared to the New Assist and the New Defensive.

Currently the only difference between the New Assist and the New Defensive is that you need to get hit for the pet, oh yeah and with assist you pet will target the target your attacking after a few seconds.

Now the Old Aggressive and the New Assist are really different IMO. As others have already pointed out there has been a very buggy conversion with the stances but I'll stick to just what the mechanics are meant to do. The Old Aggressive (and even defensive) if you where doing any kind of AOE your pet would move onto the next target immediately after the last target died, regardless or not if your pet was the focus of the MOB's attention or not. The new assist has it running back to your side, then running back into the fray, potentially dragging mobs around as your pet is running about and certainly loosing up time of the mobs your trying to kill.

The Old Aggressive was just that, Aggressive. Your pet would find the closest target and have at it. Yes there were benefits to it in pvp, but I personally found it wonderful for grinding mobs. You could drop a mob and run over to loot it, and meanwhile your pet would have already run off and started eating and gaining aggro on the next closest one, and by the time your done looting, 1/2 the work was done and you could help finish off the next mob, and so on.

Also some mobs are hard to see/difficult to originally target, yet a pet on aggressive would find/hunt them out in seconds. Even if they where LOS or behind a wall/inside a small hunt, etc. I really liked this assertiveness.

Lastly coming from an RP perspective, it really gave my pets a chance to "run a muck" and go chew on what ever took their fancy. They almost seemed unleashed and rather happy, running around a causing trouble, I thought it quite amusing and fun when I was out grinding Externals/Motes/Ogres/etc back in the day.

If I had the Choice, Yes I would want it back, more choice and utility is always a good thing, if it ain't broken, why try fix it?
Does it keep me up and night that it gone, not so much, sure I can tab target, send in my automatically, etc, it's not a massive deal breaker.

** NOTE on New Assist and the New Defensive***

If you are going to play BM in MOP, with BM's new aoe (pet swiping) the issue of your pet running back to you after the last target has dropped should now be fixed due to your pet being on the aggro table of all the mob's within the swipes range, regardless of pet spec. This should definitely fix the issue if your pet is on assist, on defensive, you still may need to get slapped a little for your pet to react.

T A N N O NT H E S P I R I T B I N D E R

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Re: Aggresive Stance, do you want it back?

Unread post by MaximumOverdrive »

I like your post Spirit, about how I think of things too.

Another note I noticed about assist too, is that I'll refocus on another mob and tell my pet to attack it too and my pet will run over to the new mob, but then it'll run back to the old mob again, then run back to the new mob. It was really annoying dealing with it all the time. I really do still prefer the old ones to the new ones. I've learned to deal with the new stances, but if I had a choice, I would go back to the old ones.
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Re: Aggresive Stance, do you want it back?

Unread post by Rawr »

MaximumOverdrive wrote:I like your post Spirit, about how I think of things too.

Another note I noticed about assist too, is that I'll refocus on another mob and tell my pet to attack it too and my pet will run over to the new mob, but then it'll run back to the old mob again, then run back to the new mob. It was really annoying dealing with it all the time. I really do still prefer the old ones to the new ones. I've learned to deal with the new stances, but if I had a choice, I would go back to the old ones.
That's what I've been saying, thank you for saying it clearer than I can. :mrgreen:

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Re: Aggresive Stance, do you want it back?

Unread post by Ziarre »

I don't believe I was comparing Assist to Aggressive. I was comparing it to the old Defensive. Aggressive was of little to no use to me as it was far more trouble than it was worth for most of the things I cared to do while it existed.
Rawr wrote:
Ziarre wrote:Uh...you can still tell them to switch targets manually (just like old times!) when you don't want to wait. They wouldn't switch targets at all until told to, was the only difference back then. And, yes, they'd run back to you and then turn around to run to a mob...I remember that quite well. I remember hoping Assist would fix it. :P
Don't be wishy-washy you said in your other post "You just gotta understand how Assist works, is all--if already attacking a mob, it requires a few seconds of damage on the new mob so that it knows you're sure about switching targets." If it requires a few seconds before the pet decides to attack what I told them to that's waiting. And with the old defensive stance I never remember them having the bugs they have now, the running back and what not, that was my biggest complaint with them they replaced something that worked with something that didn't. :mrgreen:
No wish-wash involved. You didn't tell it to attack anything by switching targets, it automatically noticed you were attacking something new and switched as well. Hitting the 'Attack' button is telling it to attack. Under Assist the pet will switch targets automatically with a few second's delay. Telling them to switch manually, by hitting the 'Attack' button, is as instant as it ever was.

*sigh* I do so dislike repeating myself, but I hope that was a bit clearer.
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Re: Aggresive Stance, do you want it back?

Unread post by Rawr »

MaximumOverdrive wrote:I like your post Spirit, about how I think of things too.

Another note I noticed about assist too, is that I'll refocus on another mob and tell my pet to attack it too and my pet will run over to the new mob, but then it'll run back to the old mob again, then run back to the new mob. It was really annoying dealing with it all the time. I really do still prefer the old ones to the new ones. I've learned to deal with the new stances, but if I had a choice, I would go back to the old ones.
He just said the exact same thing I've been saying sense page 1, you seem to be the only who has never seen this happen before and I'm beginning to wonder if you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Pets WILL when told to hit something else run half way to that target or even all the to them then run back to what they were originally hitting then run to what you told them to hit. This is annoying and waists time and for a BM Hunter it hurt our dps. I never had this problem with the old stances nor did I ever see a pet run all the way back to its master dragging adds when it wasn't on passive before this expansion. And WHY is it our new stance has to have "a few second's delay" to quote you, for it to work. The old stance you say attack that other guy, the pet attacks that target. The new stance you say attack that other guy, the pet waits a few seconds, runs to it, decides half way to go back, then goes back to that target, by then u are dead or close enough. To quote Spiritbinder "if it ain't broken, why try fix it?" :mrgreen:

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Re: Aggresive Stance, do you want it back?

Unread post by Ziarre »

In the new stance, if you hit the ATTACK button it will attack instantly. If you switch targets without hitting Attack, it takes a few seconds to make certain that you have switched targets so that your pet is not bouncing between mobs as much.

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing, just running out of ways to rephrase the same damn thing so that it's understood--it keeps going right over your head.
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Re: Aggresive Stance, do you want it back?

Unread post by MaximumOverdrive »

Except what we're talking about is doing exactly what you do, except that the pet always runs back to the original target again, even AFTER telling to manually attack the other target. That's what we're getting out.

I've MANUALLY told my pet to attack another target, it'll run to the new target, then it runs back to the old target again, then it runs back to the new target. That's what we're talking about being buggy. We're not waiting for the assist to kick in, we're telling our pet to attack, and it'll swap to the old target again then swap back. It's why I don't like the new assist.
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Re: Aggresive Stance, do you want it back?

Unread post by Ziarre »

Some are still going on about the delay thing, but in regards to what you're talking about...

Hmm. Only way I've noticed that is without it getting to the new mob--it starts going to the new mob, I hit Kill Command too early, and it turns around and KC's the mob it was just at. I tend to blame that on Kill Command, though.

I really don't recall 'running all the way to the mob then running all the way back to the other mob.' That kind of thing is usually visible enough that were I to see it...you can bet the Attack button would be mashed a few more times just to drive the point home. Some paranoid part of my vanilla-hunter-self is always watching for my pets haring off where they really shouldn't be, heh.
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Re: Aggresive Stance, do you want it back?

Unread post by MaximumOverdrive »

Yeah, I get ya, heh. I tend to watch my pet too, and that's why I've noticed it. The place I noticed it most is during the Madness fight, when you're attacking the claw/wing at first, then the corruption comes up and swap to it, then I tell my pet to attack it too. Pet will run to the corruption, then run back to the claw/wing, then back to the corruption, and I have no idea why it does that. Trust me, I mash that attack button too. It's just weird and drives me crazy sometimes.
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Re: Aggresive Stance, do you want it back?

Unread post by Ziarre »

Usually that's where I notice it running back if I hit Kill Command too soon after the order to switch, so I'll usually wait a moment until I'm certain it's there or almost so before I hit Kill Command again.
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Re: Aggresive Stance, do you want it back?

Unread post by MaximumOverdrive »

Well, when I'm on Madness, I'm in my surv spec so I'm not using Kill Command, and it still happens to me. I dunno what it is, but it happens.
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Re: Aggresive Stance, do you want it back?

Unread post by Foru21dr »

I only miss aggresive stance in PVP for stealthies since our flares do not work in showing them I loved having my pet find that dang rogue or druid and go after them.

I don't have the buggy problem that is being described with Assist so I can see where that would be annoying. I do know... if I tag any mob with a shot, assist will cause the pet to attack any I have tagged. I don't raid.. so this is only what I notice in instances. When a tank gathers up a mob, I will multi shoot them so I have more than one target tagged. The pet will go after the one I originally selected, and then will switch to the one I'm shooting. Because I have multi shot several, my pet will not come back to me until all are dead. It will stay up there. It will switch to the one I'm shooting and when that target dies he will go after the next one, until it turns to the new target I'm shooting. I have no problem keeping my pet up in the group as long as I realize I have tagged all I want it to get. I will even single shoot mobs hitting each one individually so that my pet knows to go after them, though mostly I use multi shot.
When I want my pet to attack something else that I'm not shooting, I usually have to change the stance to passive to keep it on the one I tell it to attack, otherwise the pet will run back to the target I'm shooting. Realize once you change the stance, the multi mobs you targeted will be reset. So once that target is down and I put back to assist... I must retag the group again for my pet to go attack and not come running back.
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Re: Aggresive Stance, do you want it back?

Unread post by Turgus »

Yes.
On the condition that the Assist Stance stays as it is quite useful in raiding and in groups.
Each of them had its use, and Aggressive Stance was advantageous for my play style as it allowed me to multitask better when I was pulling multiple mobs.

Let me explain.

When pulling a group of four for instance, I could send my pet in and have him/her tank the two of the mobs, as I pull off one mob trap it, and kite another around while my pet tanked the two others.
I didn't have to worry about it switching from its target to mine, or it coming back to me before it switches to another target if the one they were tanking died.

To do the same sort of thing right now requires me to keep my pet in Passive Stance which makes more work as I have to micro-manage my pet more.

In addition to this, it made grinding so much easier when we had it as we didn’t even have to tell our pet to head towards another mob or group after killing a mob or group of mobs. It would run from one group to the next attacking each in turn until all mobs were out of its agro range. Sure this has led to some interesting misadventures when my pet ran past two groups of mobs to attack a third group, or towards an elite that was pathing back and forth, etc, etc, but it was darn useful when we had it. But, Assist Stance does have its uses and fills in for Aggressive stance quite well with the exception of the misadventures previously mentioned.

Oh, how I miss those crazy pet antics….especially when my ZG bat was so fast. :lol:
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Re: Aggresive Stance, do you want it back?

Unread post by Kalliope »

You guys know that kill command on the beta forces the pet to run in to use it, right?

A lot of the buggy issues are getting addressed. :)

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Re: Aggresive Stance, do you want it back?

Unread post by Ziarre »

I noticed that! I wasn't sure I was seeing it at first, but after I saw it a few more times it was quite a 'yay!' moment. I miss beta every time I'm in Dragon Soul...that twilight drake event drives me batty with the drakes hovering just out of KC range.
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Re: Aggresive Stance, do you want it back?

Unread post by Foru21dr »

Kalliope wrote:You guys know that kill command on the beta forces the pet to run in to use it, right?

A lot of the buggy issues are getting addressed. :)
I noticed on live that if I use kill command he will run in too. Will say though that I've done that when in passive stance. Have not noticed if on assist
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Re: Aggresive Stance, do you want it back?

Unread post by Kalliope »

Foru21dr wrote:
Kalliope wrote:You guys know that kill command on the beta forces the pet to run in to use it, right?

A lot of the buggy issues are getting addressed. :)
I noticed on live that if I use kill command he will run in too. Will say though that I've done that when in passive stance. Have not noticed if on assist
Nono, I didn't say it accurately. The pet will CHARGE IN on the beta. :D The pet gets a speed boost to do it, not just attack. :)

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