Blizz,why do you hate hunters?mostly BM?

[Deadblaster]

Proof that blizz hates us.Stampede was nerfed, HARD.instead of the 125%dmg done by pets,its now reduced to 25%....Blizz..seriously..25% with each pet.that just makes up for 100% more dmg for a short while...it still sucks.

[Snowwalker]

Nerfed.. If this is true, they took the nerfing off, and just used the straight up bat....

[Equeon]

Um... 125% to 25%?! What?!
Oh, sure, other classes can enjoy an occasional massively OP ability. And the one single, fun thing we get... is nerfed TO THE GROUND!
For this, they might as well let us use the other pets for a full minute or two.

[7seti]

Care to link where you saw this? From my understanding, it was changed to 25% of the dps it formerly was, but with twice the duration and half the cooldown. It's meant to be less bursty, but with the same damage overall and now useable in arenas.

[Serendipity82]

Frostheim made an interesting point on this. This ability was ment for PVE and couldn't be used in PVP. So the PVPers complained and this is what we got. Stampede can now be used in Arenas etc. but it does less damage over a longer period of time.

[Boven]

It's a situation wherein some hunters complained and Blizzard listened to them, pretty much to the detriment of the hunter community as a whole.

Some hunters complained that it couldn't be used in arenas. I'm sure what they *wanted* was to have it remain the same, just on a shorter cooldown, but didn't realize that Blizz would think that a bit too OP.

Some hunters complained that with it's long cooldown, it could only be used once during a PvE boss fight. Again, they didn't realize that Blizz wasn't just going to leave it as it was and just change the cooldown on it. To add insult to injury, even with its nerf, it's still not affected by Readiness.

So, basically, some vocal hunters got what they wanted, but instead of a buff, it was a nerf. I, too, was a bit disappointed in the long cooldown on it, but then I don't do arenas and the only big PvP use I'd have for it would've been burning down some flag carrier in a non rated BG. For PvE, I'd have loved to have been able to use it more than once during a boss fight, but really kind of saw it in the same way I see Rapid Fire in Cata: a good dps boost when needed, but only likely to be used once in most fights.

[Slickrock]

Proof that blizz hates us.Stampede was nerfed, HARD.instead of the 125%dmg done by pets,its now reduced to 25%....Blizz..seriously..25% with each pet.that just makes up for 100% more dmg for a short while...it still sucks.

Before you go total emo on this, two things....

1) The damage was reduced, but the cooldown was reduced, and the duration was lengthened. The net result is NOT a damage nerf, but it IS a burst nerf.

2) You have your fellow hunters to blame for this. All the vocal PVPers complained about how it wasn't useful for them, so Blizz changed it, so it is less useful for PVE. (see previous post for more on this).

So don't blame Blizz, blame your fellow hunters, but it's not the nerf that you think it is.

[Meggers]

I hate balancing pvp/pve around eachother. They should just bite the bullet and nerf things in a pve or pvp setting. IE stampede would stay the same unless you zoned into a PvP zone or used it against a player. It would flip over to the other version of the skill. Guild Wars always did this and it was rather successful!

[Sasrei]

Well it wasnt that awesome to begin with from what I heard, but im kinda used to blizz nerfing the heck out of hunters. Any time we are slightly OP instead of trying to normalize us with other classes they nerf the heck out of us.. its pretty frustrating. Especially with pvp, heck I may not even pvp at all or wait until I use my jp to get HP to get pvp gear just so that Ill have the gear I need to get expertise and hit and you know.. actually hit my target. Heck I was hoping that maybe hunters in this expansion would be awesome in pvp.. kinda really sucks when you find that they may be worse.. Stampede still wont be that useful in pvp anyways.

[Rhyela]

I hate balancing pvp/pve around eachother. They should just bite the bullet and nerf things in a pve or pvp setting. IE stampede would stay the same unless you zoned into a PvP zone or used it against a player. It would flip over to the other version of the skill. Guild Wars always did this and it was rather successful!

I've been saying this for a long time. They keep trying to make everything "balanced" for both PvP and PvE, and it's just so hard to do. You either make one thing insanely overpowered, or frustratingly underpowered.

IMO, all abilities should have the so-called switch where it does one thing in PvP and another in PvE. It might take more time and effort, but things that take more time and effort are usually worth it.

[Whoisthat]

This was much needed tbh. PvP'rs are always screwed over by those casual PvE'rs (It's a joke...). If hunter's didn't have a nice move like that in Arenas I would be pretty pissed; I am glad for once they did the right thing (In my opinion) besides, with a longer Duration it'll be fine.

[Makoes]

They cut back the damage %, increased the duration, and cut back the CD...
Anyone else notice that it calls every pet in your stable, even your active one? Was funny seeing 2 stone Quilen nomming my target.

I don't mind the change because it means I can actually use this ability more then once a boss fight, or more when out questing, or more in general. I think that more peaks in my damage is better overall then one big peak and then nothing for a long time.

[Kalliope]

Anyone else notice that it calls every pet in your stable, even your active one? Was funny seeing 2 stone Quilen nomming my target.

It shouldn't be calling your active one again. Were you running with four pets? It duplicates your active pet in any empty slots.

[Makoes]

hmmm, I don't think so, I thought I was running with a full stable. I'll have to give it a look later.

[Shinryu Masaki]

Ghostcrawler's quotes on the matter two patches ago:

"The pets will indeed use their special abilities, using whatever autocast settings they had last. The buffs/debuffs they apply will persist as long as they normally would.
Based on feedback, we are going to try an implementation of Stampede where the pets have more uptime (some combo of lower duration and shorter cooldown) but are weaker than they would be individually."

"I am praying that the "lower" duration was a typo and what you meant was "longer" duration.
Yes, I meant longer duration on Stampede. Sorry."

When the first patch that changed Stampede came out, and I saw the 125%, I was a bit surprised at first since he said they would be weaker, but then again Blizzard's employees are human and can make common mistakes like typos. So I came to the conclusion that they ment it to be 25% but the person typing hit 1 by mistake when he/she went to type 2. So seeing that this patch it is 25%, it looks like they corrected their mistake.

[Neilaren]

This was much needed tbh. PvP'rs are always screwed over by those casual PvE'rs (It's a joke...).

BM's predicament in Wrath would like to speak with you.
It's not "always" PvP ruined by PvE. We are simply two sides, like Yin and Yang, or The Force.

Just remember, everyone, an ability which is only in a beta can never be considered "nerfed". It's not live, and it's never been live. If they change how Stampede works in Mists once it's been out on retail for a year, I think it's then that we can consider things a nerf. For now, it's just a (rather annoying) side effect of the tuning process. Beta is where developers come up with crazy ideas, and then have to change them fifteen times over when things don't go exactly as planned.
Or, just scrap them entirely. I still miss Rumba...

I also agree that it'd be well worth the effort of the developers at Blizzard to just bite the bullet and rework the system so that everything has a separate PvE and PvP component. I've seen it in other games and it works. They do it already with crowd control durations, and that works, too. An expansion would have been the perfect time to do something like this, but I suppose with the talent system getting (yet another) overhaul, that would be just way too much to do at once... I think Blizzard sometimes suffers from a "too many ideas in the brain" variance of the "too many cooks in the kitchen" syndrome. So many things they want to focus on, so little things end up being actually implemented.

[Vephriel]

Just remember, everyone, an ability which is only in a beta can never be considered "nerfed". It's not live, and it's never been live.

This.

[Whoisthat]

This was much needed tbh. PvP'rs are always screwed over by those casual PvE'rs (It's a joke...).

BM's predicament in Wrath would like to speak with you.
It's not "always" PvP ruined by PvE. We are simply two sides, like Yin and Yang, or The Force.

I didn't play Hunter in Wrath... but as far as I remember it was trash for Arenas....

[Slapperfish]

Am I the only one who thinks Blizzard should be using the Guild Wars approach on abilities, skills, spells etc. in PvP?

By that, I mean that certain spells and abilities are replaced with a duplicate spell in PvP that have their own output numbers seperate from the original PvE spell (and sometimes, what the spell does as a whole is different). That way, abilities in PvE are unaffected by nerfs/buffs in PvP.

Example: Stampede would do 125% damage in PvE, but is replaced by Stampede (PvP) upon entering PvP, which only does 25% damage.

[Sasrei]

Actually I still consider it a "nerf" even if its only on beta cause even if it is subject to change you still have hope that it wont . I mean when I first heard min range was gone I was all happy and stuff, wooot mages wont freeze me in place and dance on me.. now its all agility users have a high chance of dodging my critical shots uh.. umm.. yay progress? In my view hunters need to zip it, we only seem to make it worse for ourselves instead of better remember the whole hunter healing? yah well hunters themselves complained it was to OP so they nerfed it hardcore to the point of being almost useless, then hunters complained about aspect of the iron hawk not doing as well as it should so they placed it into the healing tier instead of us having both then slightly "buffed" things.