Hunter buffs and nerfs, BM goes down, MM goes up

[Slickrock]

Just wow, check the patch notes... At least it happened before releas. And MM got massive buffs.

Time to work on that MM rotation.

(Yeah, I know, it's still beta, but those are sweeping changes for this stage)

Maybe I won't be worried about spirit beasts anyway...

[Equeon]

This is frightening. I'm still never changing, though! They won't make me! <clutches exotics and hides in a corner>

[Kalliope]

I checked the patch notes.

I see a handful of buffs directed at pets that should make a difference.

Perhaps you stopped reading after seeing the marks buffs?

[Bonita]

The only thing that annoyed me was the nerf to beast cleave, but it doesnt bother me too much. The rest seems okayish to me. Im hoping I get to raid as BM at least at the start of MoP.

[Deadblaster]

I guess that Blizz still want BM to suck for PvE and that MM should still be the raiding spec.And what i mean is, if Blizz keeps it like this,i will not play MoP.Ever.

[Slickrock]

Need to test the pet attack changes, need to see how those play out. Given how focus starved our pets are, that might not help.

The CoS nerf really hurts. I don't think the arcane buff will come close to balancing that out.

FF/Frenzy were already bad, and are now an afterthought.

But MM was buffed across the board.

[Kalliope]

There were a bunch of focus cost reductions too, notably on basic pet attacks. They should be less focus-starved in the long run due to that.

[Magli]

It looks like there's a big buff to Kill Command damage in there as well, plus a boost to BM's Mastery. I can't tell from reading the patch notes whether the overall effect will be a buff, a nerf, or a wash.

I agree that Marks looks like it got a significant buff, especially to Aimed Shot damage. But I doubt this will be the last change before 5.0 goes live. How were the three specs comparing before today in terms of DPS at level 90?

[Kalliope]

It was BM, MM, surv, with pretty significant gaps between the three, the last I heard.

[cowmuflage]

It was BM, MM, surv, with pretty significant gaps between the three, the last I heard.

So they where trying to make them closer to each other then? I don't see that as a bad thing. I have not read the notes yet.

[Rikaku]

I admit, the bulk of the BM changes do not make me happy. But I will with hold my final judgement until I see some numbers. Im hoping the pet buffs are compensating for the other nerfs. But BM nerfs always scare me, because I seriously do not want to see Patch 3.0.8 Round 2 That patch still haunts my dreams.

[Shade]

Can someone link to the patch notes? I'd like to read what is going on.

[Bonita]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/286 ... uild-15913

[Aettis]

It was a small nerf for BM at first, but then a HUGE overall buff for BM.

Arcane Shot damage buffed by 75% and focus cost reduced(20 focus, down from 22).
Kill Command damage buffed by 120% and focus cost increased(40 focus, up from 37).
Frenzy(50%, down from 75%) and Focus Fire(25%, down from 40%) nerfed.
Beast Cleave(25%, down from 70%) nerfed.
BM mastery(16%, up from 13%) buffed.
Bite/Smack/Claw buffed.
And our level 90 talents had all of their damage doubled.

[Slickrock]

It was a small nerf for BM at first, but then a HUGE overall buff for BM.

Arcane Shot damage buffed by 75% and focus cost reduced(20 focus, down from 22).
Kill Command damage buffed by 120% and focus cost increased(40 focus, up from 37).
Frenzy(50%, down from 75%) and Focus Fire(25%, down from 40%) nerfed.
Beast Cleave(25%, down from 70%) nerfed.
BM mastery(16%, up from 13%) buffed.
Bite/Smack/Claw buffed.
And our level 90 talents had all of their damage doubled.

Don't know where you get those numbers.. and you left off the massive CoS nerf. But the worst part is the major loss of AOE, something we have none of currently. And perhaps more importantly, with MM buffed across the board, BM's spot as a raid spec will be iffy, again.

Can't get onto the beta server atm, but when I do I'll run the same dps test I ran earlier this week, and see what the change is.

[Aettis]

It was a small nerf for BM at first, but then a HUGE overall buff for BM.

Arcane Shot damage buffed by 75% and focus cost reduced(20 focus, down from 22).
Kill Command damage buffed by 120% and focus cost increased(40 focus, up from 37).
Frenzy(50%, down from 75%) and Focus Fire(25%, down from 40%) nerfed.
Beast Cleave(25%, down from 70%) nerfed.
BM mastery(16%, up from 13%) buffed.
Bite/Smack/Claw buffed.
And our level 90 talents had all of their damage doubled.

Don't know where you get those numbers.. and you left off the massive CoS nerf. But the worst part is the major loss of AOE, something we have none of currently. And perhaps more importantly, with MM buffed across the board, BM's spot as a raid spec will be iffy, again.

Can't get onto the beta server atm, but when I do I'll run the same dps test I ran earlier this week, and see what the change is.

From a blue post and doing the math over on my thread on MMO-Champ. I did forget about Cobra Shot, but it was doing WAY too much damage on the beta(more than Arcane Shot). Our single target damage is going up, AoE is going down. But we had the strongest AoE(it was wicked high). MM also was very very weak, which is why it got such strong buffs. BM was the highest, with SV just behind it/on par.

Also, even if MM is equivalent to BM, I think BM will be preferred due to the utility it can bring(especially brez), where MM brings nothing nowadays.

For reference:
MMO-Champ Beta thread: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/110 ... nformation
Blue post: "Yes, Wild Quiver does 50% weapon damage now, but we’ve increased the proc rate substantially to compensate. Also, the next build you get should include a significant number of changes to hunter ability damage, so it’s probably best to wait until then for really detailed investigation of their damage formulae. Super brief and incomplete summary of changes include nearly doubling Wild Quiver’s proc chance; doubling the damage of the level 90 talents; buffing BM’s Mastery considerably; Master Marksman reduced to 3 stacks; doubling the damage of Black Arrow and Serpent Sting for Survival; significantly nerfing Beast Cleave; nearly halving the cost of Explosive Shot; buffing Aimed, Arcane, and Chimera Shot noticeably; nerfing Cobra shot noticeably; nearly doubling the damage of Kill Command; reducing the cost of Arcane Shot; nerfing Focus Fire and Frenzy somewhat… There have been a lot of changes to Hunter damage. "

[Tsuki]

But the worst part is the major loss of AOE, something we have none of currently.

BW>Multishot spam>Fervor>more multishot???

[Slickrock]

Well, once the servers are back up, let the dps testing begin... but I'm still expecting BM to be the also-ran on AOE, at best. Considering how funky this new iteration of FF/Frenzy was, it could likely be ignored all together, and just leave Frenzy stacking.

[Aettis]

Well, once the servers are back up, let the dps testing begin... but I'm still expecting BM to be the also-ran on AOE, at best. Considering how funky this new iteration of FF/Frenzy was, it could likely be ignored all together, and just leave Frenzy stacking.

I was thinking the same thing, considering increased attack speed isn't all that great for BM.

Also, one the testers said the MM buffs weren't as substantial as we think and from his testing, BM is still top.

[Slickrock]

Well, once the servers are back up, let the dps testing begin... but I'm still expecting BM to be the also-ran on AOE, at best. Considering how funky this new iteration of FF/Frenzy was, it could likely be ignored all together, and just leave Frenzy stacking.

I was thinking the same thing, considering increased attack speed isn't all that great for BM.

Also, one the testers said the MM buffs weren't as substantial as we think and from his testing, BM is still top.

Well.. I did some testing. In my gear, on an 85 dummy, only self buffs, on a 10-minute rotation...

Last week I got 27k sustained as BM.
Today was 25k sustained as BM.

Then I tested a MM rotation, and including the CA overage, I was getting 35-38k. That's without any Aimed hardcasting. So the CA overage on the dummy might reduce that down to 30-32k, but for me, MM is clearly over BM by a large margin. (Need a 70% health target dummy for more accurate testing).

Z is doing her analysis, but won't have numbers until late tomorrow or Sunday.

The other question, that Z will hopefully be able to provide some insight on, is how the scaling turns out. Since there is so much increased RAP in the spell formulas, scaling will be quite interesting.