What if a rare spirit beast introduced at lower level in 5.1

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Re: What if a rare spirit beast introduced at lower level in

Unread post by Kurasu » Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:43 am

Lazurianis wrote:QUOTE: "Fighting a Spirit Beast is harrowing". . There for implying that no Spirit Beast will be A. Low Level. Or B. A Common NPC.
While I will agree that it will not be a common NPC, if it follows lore, I don't see why this would imply that a Spirit Beast would not be low level. 'Harrowing' doesn't mean 'Terrifying because of their massive power'. 'Harrowing' means 'causing physical or psychological pain'. Essentially, they are driving you crazy because of the way they phase in and out. This doesn't require a high level to do. Even a low level beast, who could phase itself in and out of this realm, would drive people crazy. Imagine trying to locate Ghostcrawler if the phasing he did lasted 15 minutes at a time. Imagine in combat, you can't attack him because at will, he can phase himself out; you have to wait for the 1 second window that he attacks you to be able to do even a little damage, or target him. Now, make him level 5. Would it be any less frustrating and, thus, harrowing? Not at all.

TLDR; You keep using that word... I do not think it means what you think it means.
Because, When they mentioned that a Spirit Beast rarely appears in the same area twice, as I (personally) have noticed, Vanilla Areas that have any form of a Rare Spawn can appear more than once every hour. So if that is the case, what is the purpose of the lore saying that they rarely appear?
Well, A) a creature that technically is unique, and can be killed only once, appears every hour. Suspend your disbelief! And B) Who's to say that they couldn't make a spawn longer or shorter? It's limited by the creature. Not the zone.
1. Spirit Beasts will never appear in Old World content because in the previous expansions, there were little to no areas that was focused around death and spirits.
EPL, WPL, most of the troll and elf zones, areas of The Emerald Dream (which still exist on the grid at the moment), Moonglade, Un'goro as a 'pure land', really the list can go on and on. There is a lot of spirituality and death in Azeroth.
2. Spirit Beasts are POWERFUL. There will not be a level 47 Spirit Beast roaming around Searing Gorge. Because Levels is like a Rank. The higher level you are, the more powerful you are.
And yet, I can walk into Molten Core and, in five minutes time, destroy The Firelord Ragnaros. Solo. I can enter Onyxia's Lair and defeat the queen of the black dragons, or I can take Nefarion out with just myself. I can even solo an Old God. Does this mean that by lore, I am more powerful than any of these things? I'd like to think so, but I *don't* think so. Not by Lore. Just by game mechanics.
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Re: What if a rare spirit beast introduced at lower level in

Unread post by Yoruko » Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:51 am

Lazurianis wrote: My point is, putting in lower level spirit beasts in the game is just absurd sounding, let alone them not to be rare spawn. As mentioned before, Spirit Beasts actually have a place in lore of World of Warcraft, so now look at it like this, if Blizzard was to add a Lower Level Spirit Beast, doesn't that mean (from a lore stand point) that the Spirit Beasts are weak and untrained? And that they have become so desperate that they resort to weaker and untrained Spirit Beasts?
Levels are there for laying out the game content into a progressive "task" for the player and to enhance the game mechanics. Low level does not equal weakness lore wise. Is Illidan weak in the lore because he is nowadays just a level 70 raid boss? Nope.
Because according to lore, Spirit Beasts phase in and out of existence, and that they RARELY appear in the same area twice not to mention, they are SPIRIT BEASTS, they are very powerful. QUOTE: "Fighting a Spirit Beast is harrowing". . There for implying that no Spirit Beast will be A. Low Level. Or B. A Common NPC. Because, When they mentioned that a Spirit Beast rarely appears in the same area twice, as I (personally) have noticed, Vanilla Areas that have any form of a Rare Spawn can appear more than once every hour.
Once again, levels have nothing to do with the actual "power" of the beast. It's just content convenience and determines at which point of their progress through the game the player is supposed to meet the mobs.

"Harrowing." This in no way rules out low levels or common NPCs. Fighting undead could be called harrowing just as well and there is several common and low level undead NPCs.

Lower level rare NPC spawn timers are shorter for player convenience: they give you helpful loot and an exp boost. (Players also progress through lower level content at a much faster phase so it only makes sense to have mob spawn timers to correlate?) Regardless, they can just as well be considered to be rare and unusual. This would only mean the beast is more readily available to players game mechanic wise, but does not nullify the lore aspect of it being rare and unusual.
So if that is the case, what is the purpose of the lore saying that they rarely appear? It's no different at that point than waiting for a quest mob who has a respawn timer.
Technically there is no difference. Sometimes you just have to wait longer. :)
1. Spirit Beasts will never appear in Old World content because in the previous expansions, there were little to no areas that was focused around death and spirits.
Please don't make personal opinions into statements of fact when none of us can say for sure what the developers will or will not do in the future. It's misleading and can cause misinformation. ;) What comes to areas about death and spirits, there are several as other people have already stated.
2. Spirit Beasts are POWERFUL. There will not be a level 47 Spirit Beast roaming around Searing Gorge. Because Levels is like a Rank. The higher level you are, the more powerful you are. Sure, looking back at Northrend and some Cataclysm areas, they aren't powerful anymore, but they used to. Look at Ghostcrawler for example, he is still very powerful, because of his HP and Damage he does.
Levels hardly count as ranks. (Besides maybe random out world PVP, but that has nothing to do with lore. :) ) Whatever you do in game, if you are doing level appropriate content you are technically always at the highest rank. Levels are a tool for the developers to tell the story and give you the content in the order they want to, not a measure of how strong an entity is inside the story.

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Re: What if a rare spirit beast introduced at lower level in

Unread post by Lisaara » Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:23 pm

While I'd rather they didn't put it in a lower level zone(if they do, it's fine. It's just personal preference), I'm in agreeance with Kurasu and Yoruko. They brought up some very valid points.

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Re: What if a rare spirit beast introduced at lower level in

Unread post by Lazurianis » Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:58 pm

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Last edited by Lazurianis on Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What if a rare spirit beast introduced at lower level in

Unread post by Lazurianis » Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:59 pm

pop wrote:1. No, almost all parts of Azeroth are focused around death and spirit. Wow is a Hyper Fantasy area.

2. I think you have confused between game mechanic and lore. A mob's level and our level and ability are just game mechanic. Lore is there to explain and enrich game mechanic. A creature found in a later expansion doesn't mean it is stronger than the previous encounter. I don't think a level 85 Stag in the Jade Forest would be any stronger than a level 55 yeti in Winterspring. Do you really think a level 60 dragon in old Azeroth is weaker than a level 90 bee in the Arboretum?
Whatever, if you want to be right, go ahead, I am not going to argue over it. I just figured i'd state my opinion and why, i'm not going to be told by someone who doesn't even know me that I am "confused", because quite frankly, I know exactly what i'm talking about.[/quote]
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Re: What if a rare spirit beast introduced at lower level in

Unread post by Ziarre » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:02 pm

Stating opinion is fine, but let's not be hostile about it?

Low-level spirit beast might be a bit odd considering levels, but considering lore...not so odd.
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Re: What if a rare spirit beast introduced at lower level in

Unread post by Kalliope » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:18 pm

On the subject of "low level beasts can't be powerful," it sounds to me like someone didn't fight certain lowbie mobs before they got moved/nerfed. Krethiss the Shadowspinner was a NIGHTMARE for lowbies. Fighting Hogger at the earliest possible level was a rite of passage for every single character I had. Just because an NPC is in a low level zone, it doesn't make them weak; they're still quite powerful in proportion to the NPCs around them.

On the subject of spirit beasts, they've traditionally been released only in new zones, which makes them more of an endgame pursuit. We haven't seen new spirit beasts that are under the then-level-cap since Northrend (where all but Skoll were). However, Mists didn't release with a spirit beast, unlike the previous two expansions. This is already a break with tradition. There are some events in this expansion that take us outside of Pandaria; perhaps there is some reasoning for spirit beasts to be released outside the new continent....or perhaps not. We won't know until we know what they are. This is all just speculation.

TL;DR: You can take either side in this debate and come up with a logical argument. There's no need to take anything personally.

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Re: What if a rare spirit beast introduced at lower level in

Unread post by Zangor » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:27 pm

im still watching MMOchampion everyday with the hopes that the next build will have a spirit beast model or two in it that they will have data mined!

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Re: What if a rare spirit beast introduced at lower level in

Unread post by ejpaints » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:49 pm

Zangor wrote:im still watching MMOchampion everyday with the hopes that the next build will have a spirit beast model or two in it that they will have data mined!
Ditto. It's the one family I collect all of. Can't help myself. Cept GC. I did abandon him. Dunno why but I just never could bond with him. I routinely rotate through them all. Out of all my pets it's the one type I just can't stick with one. Although I guess skoll does get favoritism a bit.

Been checking daily hoping for a new one. It'll come though, eventually. Just a bit disappointed bc I read we'd been assured one for 5.1 and I honestly at this point don't see it happening.
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Re: What if a rare spirit beast introduced at lower level in

Unread post by Zangor » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:59 pm

until noah comes around and says they need to be delayed until 5.2 i am inclined to trust blizzard with getting it done. at the very least they could quickly add a xuen model beast or a crane god model beast and make it use already existing tracking methods or challenge tame mechanics.

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Re: What if a rare spirit beast introduced at lower level in

Unread post by Kalliope » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:05 pm

Zangor wrote:im still watching MMOchampion everyday with the hopes that the next build will have a spirit beast model or two in it that they will have data mined!
This and the replies to it have little to do with the thread topic. :/ Please try to avoid that.

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Re: What if a rare spirit beast introduced at lower level in

Unread post by Loki » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:16 pm

Whatever, if you want to be right, go ahead, I am not going to argue over it. I just figured i'd state my opinion and why, i'm not going to be told by someone who doesn't even know me that I am "confused", because quite frankly, I know exactly what i'm talking about.
But this makes no sense. If level were an indication of lore strength, every Pandaren (even the villagers) could take out boss dragons, unspeakable horrors, Old Gods, huge golems, mammoths etc.

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Re: What if a rare spirit beast introduced at lower level in

Unread post by Lisaara » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:34 pm

Kalliope wrote:On the subject of "low level beasts can't be powerful," it sounds to me like someone didn't fight certain lowbie mobs before they got moved/nerfed. Krethiss the Shadowspinner was a NIGHTMARE for lowbies. Fighting Hogger at the earliest possible level was a rite of passage for every single character I had. Just because an NPC is in a low level zone, it doesn't make them weak; they're still quite powerful in proportion to the NPCs around them.

On the subject of spirit beasts, they've traditionally been released only in new zones, which makes them more of an endgame pursuit. We haven't seen new spirit beasts that are under the then-level-cap since Northrend (where all but Skoll were). However, Mists didn't release with a spirit beast, unlike the previous two expansions. This is already a break with tradition. There are some events in this expansion that take us outside of Pandaria; perhaps there is some reasoning for spirit beasts to be released outside the new continent....or perhaps not. We won't know until we know what they are. This is all just speculation.

TL;DR: You can take either side in this debate and come up with a logical argument. There's no need to take anything personally.
*remembers Hogger and proceeds to curl up in a fetal position*

You are right. That does break tradition so it could still happen.

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Re: What if a rare spirit beast introduced at lower level in

Unread post by Snowy » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:53 am

Erm... Pop hasn't said anything for a while as far as I can see. And you already responded to the exact same post a few days ago.

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Re: What if a rare spirit beast introduced at lower level in

Unread post by Yoruko » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:52 am

Lazurianis wrote:You know what Pop, if you want to be right, there, you are right, I am not going to argue with someone who thinks I am "confused" between Lore and Mechanics. Because if you are going to tell me what I know and don't know, it would be as pointless as arguing with a five year old who wants to buy a action figure at Toys R Us. There is no winner, because the Five year old cries and complains about not getting his toy and saying your a bad person, ect. ect. So what i'm basically saying is, I see no reason in talking or associating with someone who thinks they are right and tells other people they don't know what they are talking about. I stated my opinion and you jumped the gun and took it the wrong way because I didn't agree with your idea, so as you probably can tell, I am pissed off.
Whoa, whoa. Take a deep breath. You're finding offense where there is none intended. People have only stated why they think it is possible for a lower level and/or old world spirit beast could exist. You made some quite harsh statements in your original post so it's only expectable that others will reply with equal passion. ;)

To cut a long story short; no one made any offenses against your person, only points as to why they disagree with what you said. Both parties have the right for their own opinion. There are no "right" or "wrong" answers to this topic.

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Re: What if a rare spirit beast introduced at lower level in

Unread post by ejpaints » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:05 pm

I don't know what happened to this forum while I've been inactive mostly over the past year. But there is way too much arguing and people dictating how a discussion can be held.

I used to enjoy coming here to read and share info on rares. Now I just cringe if I post waiting to see if someone decides to pick my post apart and point out I shouldn't have posted. I'll continue to check the site for news but as far as involving myself in any sort of discussion I'm done. The community here seems to be going the way of trade chat in game. So much for being a family of hunters who just enjoyed discussions. Some of you really need to think before you post, bc there aren't many threads these days that haven't turned into some sort of argument or "I am almighty been here for ages and I say your post doesn't belong".

It was fun here once. That's no longer the case. Later guys. Hopefully you will all remember one day what this site used to be.
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Re: What if a rare spirit beast introduced at lower level in

Unread post by Shinryu Masaki » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:47 pm

Kalliope wrote:On the subject of "low level beasts can't be powerful," it sounds to me like someone didn't fight certain lowbie mobs before they got moved/nerfed. Krethiss the Shadowspinner was a NIGHTMARE for lowbies. Fighting Hogger at the earliest possible level was a rite of passage for every single character I had. Just because an NPC is in a low level zone, it doesn't make them weak; they're still quite powerful in proportion to the NPCs around them.
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Re: What if a rare spirit beast introduced at lower level in

Unread post by Wain » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:14 pm

I decided to delete one over-reactive post, which, as someone pointed out, was the second post of that nature with nothing new to prompt it. I've left the rest.

Please try to remember a couple of things here:

- many people posting here do not use English as their first language. As a result, sometimes posts can appear more abrupt or severe than the poster likely intended. Please allow some leeway for that. Not everyone has a grasp of the more complex semantics of English, but they still speak it better than I do any other language :)

- looking for a reason to feel offended can often be the easy way out. And it's also addictive. It's extremely tempting to do so, for anyone, me included. But please try to resist. It really does poison the discussion and adds nothing of substance.
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Re: What if a rare spirit beast introduced at lower level in

Unread post by Maizou » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:20 am

As I said before, to the people who say that spirit beasts are meant to be creatures from another area with immense power, etc.

There's a few places in the old world that they can stick them in.

For example: The forests in the barrens were not caused by the cataclysm. If you quest there, you learn the Emerald Nightmare's seal was starting to weaken, and it was seeping into our world. We help it get sealed again, but they could easily add a tallstrider or raptor spirit beast there. (As those are the creatures affected by the nightmare in the area)

There's a few other places I can't remember off the top of my head, but there's plenty of places that are a concentration of power that exist in the old world.

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Re: What if a rare spirit beast introduced at lower level in

Unread post by swimgremlin » Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:24 am

*Points to the gates where Nightmare Dragons once stood*

Nobody to guard the entrance/exit of the Dream. Most of the powerful "lore" Druids, (Cenarious, Malorne, Malfurion, etc) are all in the waking realm healing Hyjal and keeping watch over the Firelands. Who's to say something might not "slip" thru. :-p

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