More nerfs... and other changes.

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AdamSavage
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Re: More nerfs... and other changes.

Unread post by AdamSavage »

Junrei wrote:Well atleast Lore isn't being a douche about all this. That gives me some teensy bit of hope.
He is new, things could change. Though he likely see's things from our point of view, but could be told what to say.
I believe if you can believe out of nothing an explosion (big bang) happened then how far fetched can god be?

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Lisaara
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Re: More nerfs... and other changes.

Unread post by Lisaara »

AdamSavage wrote:
Junrei wrote:Well atleast Lore isn't being a douche about all this. That gives me some teensy bit of hope.
He is new, things could change. Though he likely see's things from our point of view, but could be told what to say.
I know but still....I'll take Lore over GC anyday atm.

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Re: More nerfs... and other changes.

Unread post by Ickabob »

Yeah we don't have to get nasty, but we do need to use our voices and air our concerns to the devs. They won't know what's wrong if we don't tell them.
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Re: More nerfs... and other changes.

Unread post by Chaix »

looks like somebody was actually paying attention.
from wowhead
Glyph of Scattered Thoughts (NYI): Your Scatter Shot no longer Disorients the target, but now interrupts their spellcasts, preventing any spells in the same school from being cast for 4 sec, and Scatter Shot's range is increasd by 0 yards.
better than nothing, and i don't use scatter much anyways
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Re: More nerfs... and other changes.

Unread post by Tunderbrew »

Aye, that glyph is better than nothing. However; I still don't understand why such a universal piece of DPS kit is not baseline for the class and requires a glyph slot. And their reasoning of 'too much CC' looks arbitrary at best when one of our specs will have access to a true interrupt with blanket silence and a disorient or two true interrupts. By no means am I demanding the silencing component remain intact, but I don't think a baseline true interrupt is unreasonable. Blizzard, my Warrior's Pummel, Disrupting Shout and Gag Order send their regards.
Last edited by Tunderbrew on Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: More nerfs... and other changes.

Unread post by Nevish »

Tunderbrew wrote:Aye, that glyph is better than nothing. However; I still don't understand why such a universal piece of DPS kit is not baseline for the class and requires a glyph slot. And their reasoning of 'too much CC' looks arbitrary at best when one of our specs will have access to a true interrupt with blanket silence and a disorient or two true interrupts.
Foresight? Planned thinking? What are those?!

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Lisaara
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Re: More nerfs... and other changes.

Unread post by Lisaara »

Chaix wrote:looks like somebody was actually paying attention.
from wowhead
Glyph of Scattered Thoughts (NYI): Your Scatter Shot no longer Disorients the target, but now interrupts their spellcasts, preventing any spells in the same school from being cast for 4 sec, and Scatter Shot's range is increasd by 0 yards.
better than nothing, and i don't use scatter much anyways
It's a start, definitely but the class is still in shambles.

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Re: More nerfs... and other changes.

Unread post by SpiritBinder »

I'm glad they can see they we need an interrupt, but to nit-pick, now we have to lose a glyph to gain it. <.<

I don’t think the silencing component is a must by any means, but for the love of sweet baby wrathion, just give the class a standard interrupt... it aint that hard or OP.

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Re: More nerfs... and other changes.

Unread post by Ariamodasu »

Why oh why are glyphs supposed to be the spell changers that people need. There's a healing Druid one as well and they're still dodging how crap we are at moving claiming it'll come later when we've had painfully little all expac.

Still confused about Hunter's having a ton of CC, I have roots but it doesn't mean it works in holding things still most of the time.
My main's a Druid so I of course love critters. That counts for something right? Right?

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Re: More nerfs... and other changes.

Unread post by Slickrock »

Junrei wrote:
Chaix wrote:looks like somebody was actually paying attention.
from wowhead
Glyph of Scattered Thoughts (NYI): Your Scatter Shot no longer Disorients the target, but now interrupts their spellcasts, preventing any spells in the same school from being cast for 4 sec, and Scatter Shot's range is increasd by 0 yards.
better than nothing, and i don't use scatter much anyways
It's a start, definitely but the class is still in shambles.
Considering what we really need Silence for (outside of PVP) is situational, this could be a acceptable solution for that.

Still doesn't fix the other issues, but it's a start.
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Re: More nerfs... and other changes.

Unread post by Nevish »

Ariamodasu wrote:Why oh why are glyphs supposed to be the spell changers that people need. There's a healing Druid one as well and they're still dodging how crap we are at moving claiming it'll come later when we've had painfully little all expac.

Still confused about Hunter's having a ton of CC, I have roots but it doesn't mean it works in holding things still most of the time.
That's basically the problem with our CC. We have it, we're called THE CC class, and yet our use for it is so varied and situational, so neutered, it doesn't really amount to squat. It's like demanding a beautiful cake, then wondering why the baker hates you after you tell them to cook the cake without an oven and half of the ingredients.

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Re: More nerfs... and other changes.

Unread post by Ariamodasu »

Nevish wrote:
Ariamodasu wrote:Why oh why are glyphs supposed to be the spell changers that people need. There's a healing Druid one as well and they're still dodging how crap we are at moving claiming it'll come later when we've had painfully little all expac.

Still confused about Hunter's having a ton of CC, I have roots but it doesn't mean it works in holding things still most of the time.
That's basically the problem with our CC. We have it, we're called THE CC class, and yet our use for it is so varied and situational, so neutered, it doesn't really amount to squat. It's like demanding a beautiful cake, then wondering why the baker hates you after you tell them to cook the cake without an oven and half of the ingredients.
I think Cyclone on Aria and the iceburg trap as I always mix the two frost traps up is the only real CC I use between the two :) At least they DO something useful.
My main's a Druid so I of course love critters. That counts for something right? Right?

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Re: More nerfs... and other changes.

Unread post by Lisaara »

I don't think they realize our traps are extremely unreliable, especially in pvp.

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Re: More nerfs... and other changes.

Unread post by Tunderbrew »

A slight tangent, but I found this post to be amusing and demonstrative(in regards to the debate over our class' cc kit):
"The funny thing is I made the exact same point to Holinka on his Twitter during the last PTR in response to Hunter pet CCs being thrown in to the wood chipper. I politely asked why Hunters were being targeted for heavy CC nerfing while none of the other main offenders were as well. His response was a snarky retort and listed a CC chain by Hunters (ignoring the fact it used traps and their dubious reliability in PvP). I posted again with three other CC chains, one each for Rogues, Mages and Warlocks. Two of them were nearly identical in duration with Hunters and the Rogue one worked out to be even longer. At which point, Holinka decided to just ignore the conversation and any further posts about it."
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Re: More nerfs... and other changes.

Unread post by AdamSavage »

Tunderbrew wrote:A slight tangent, but I found this post to be amusing and demonstrative(in regards to the debate over our class' cc kit):
"The funny thing is I made the exact same point to Holinka on his Twitter during the last PTR in response to Hunter pet CCs being thrown in to the wood chipper. I politely asked why Hunters were being targeted for heavy CC nerfing while none of the other main offenders were as well. His response was a snarky retort and listed a CC chain by Hunters (ignoring the fact it used traps and their dubious reliability in PvP). I posted again with three other CC chains, one each for Rogues, Mages and Warlocks. Two of them were nearly identical in duration with Hunters and the Rogue one worked out to be even longer. At which point, Holinka decided to just ignore the conversation and any further posts about it."
I'm not surprised by this.
I believe if you can believe out of nothing an explosion (big bang) happened then how far fetched can god be?

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AdamSavage
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Re: More nerfs... and other changes.

Unread post by AdamSavage »

They seem to be extending the post count in the PTR threads, so I guess that is a good thing.
I believe if you can believe out of nothing an explosion (big bang) happened then how far fetched can god be?

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Re: More nerfs... and other changes.

Unread post by Ickabob »

Junrei wrote:
Chaix wrote:looks like somebody was actually paying attention.
from wowhead
Glyph of Scattered Thoughts (NYI): Your Scatter Shot no longer Disorients the target, but now interrupts their spellcasts, preventing any spells in the same school from being cast for 4 sec, and Scatter Shot's range is increasd by 0 yards.
better than nothing, and i don't use scatter much anyways
It's a start, definitely but the class is still in shambles.
I'll reiterate something I said in another thread regarding this:
Ickabob wrote:This glyph is a crappy band-aid at best. Scatter as an interrupt will be inferior to other class's options and here's why:

1. Scatter Shot has a 30 second CD. That's long if you compare it to Rogues 15 second Kick CD or Shaman's 12 second CD Wind Shear.

2. Scatter has a 20 yard range. Wind Shear is 25 yards and Mage's Counterspell is a whopping FORTY yards.

3. Scatter is on the GCD. Other interrupts are not on the GCD. This means, that in the heat of the moment when interrupting often matters most, you'll likely be mid cast and have to stop your casting (using a /stopcasting macro) and use your interrupt, but won't because you're GCD locked.

We shouldn't have to take a badly implemented band-aid that gives us second rate functionality compared to what other classes have baseline. That's not to mention that no PVPer in their right mind will ever use this glyph because it means giving up Scatter trapping. God forbid if there happens to be a PVE encounter where we have to control adds and interrupt. We'd be screwed.

I also remember GC stating that they want to move away from mandatory glyphs, yet I'm pretty sure this one will become mandatory for PVE, right along side Deterrance and Animal Bond. I guess adding new spells is hard.
That about sums it up.
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Re: More nerfs... and other changes.

Unread post by Slickrock »

AdamSavage wrote:
Tunderbrew wrote:A slight tangent, but I found this post to be amusing and demonstrative(in regards to the debate over our class' cc kit):
"The funny thing is I made the exact same point to Holinka on his Twitter during the last PTR in response to Hunter pet CCs being thrown in to the wood chipper. I politely asked why Hunters were being targeted for heavy CC nerfing while none of the other main offenders were as well. His response was a snarky retort and listed a CC chain by Hunters (ignoring the fact it used traps and their dubious reliability in PvP). I posted again with three other CC chains, one each for Rogues, Mages and Warlocks. Two of them were nearly identical in duration with Hunters and the Rogue one worked out to be even longer. At which point, Holinka decided to just ignore the conversation and any further posts about it."
I'm not surprised by this.
The new guys, including Lore, are quite snarky. Rygarius takes delight in tweeting about banning people.

Methinks they are getting close to that point where their poor attitudes cause a mass unsub.
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Re: More nerfs... and other changes.

Unread post by Lisaara »

Lore actually hasn't been snarky. He's the only one that hasn't.

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Re: More nerfs... and other changes.

Unread post by cowmuflage »

Slickrock wrote:

Methinks they are getting close to that point where their poor attitudes cause a mass unsub.

Honestly I see it happening (if it does and to me seems unlikely) over the poor attitudes of the players not the devs.
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