BM new problems with talent changes vs. taming Hutia

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MadHatterBunny
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BM new problems with talent changes vs. taming Hutia

Unread post by MadHatterBunny » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:28 am

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Remember this lovely? I've been thinking. Now since silence shot went to Marks taming this beauty is going to be a whole lot harder now. She has a self heal that must be interrupted. Only things that work are silence shot, scatter shot, and entangling roots (druid). She's now going to need a group as soloing her down will be a difficult challenge with scatter shot's cool down.

I don't think Blizz was thinking this through with taking silence shot off of the talents. Yeah balance for pvp (I really don't pvp much), but those changes should not come into pve. Jeez. They added this pet in the game that requires that mechanic.

Not only that, silence shot has helped my BM spec with other stuff in the game. I still think all hunters should have the choice of picking it.

Spirit pets can only be tamed by Beast Masters. I find it funny that Hutia may become the difficult one out of the three now. lol.

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Re: BM new problems with talent changes vs. taming Hutia

Unread post by Ickabob » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:07 pm

They need to either give silencing shot back as a talent or just give us some sort of baseline interrupt.

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Re: BM new problems with talent changes vs. taming Hutia

Unread post by MadHatterBunny » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:08 pm

I agree. BM needs the pet stun back and silence shot needs to be a talent. The pet stun doesn't work on a lot of situations. SS covers what we lack.

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Re: BM new problems with talent changes vs. taming Hutia

Unread post by Castile » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:16 pm

I'd also add you need to silence the dinomancer's that drop the dino taming tome. Granted you could probably do it as marksman but as they sometimes heal twice in a row you need more than one silence to kill them sometimes (SS and Scatter). Again someone didn't fully think through the implications of taking this one shot away :S

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Re: BM new problems with talent changes vs. taming Hutia

Unread post by MadHatterBunny » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:31 pm

Yep!

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Re: BM new problems with talent changes vs. taming Hutia

Unread post by Nevish » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:39 pm

Only rational way that I can work about that is to have a pet with interrupt to abandon before taming...say, a monkey or moth, which have long ability CDs and will taunt off if Intimidation is used. Not exactly lucrative.

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Re: BM new problems with talent changes vs. taming Hutia

Unread post by SpiritBinder » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:55 pm

There is a few work around for this if not addressed.

1st, you could bring a friend to interrupt for you, not ideal and also means that you cannot solo, but still it's an option.

2nd is actually not dissimilar to using a trick that we needed to use for our old friend King Krush (back in the day) and that is, bring a pet friend.

To tame Krush early on in wrath blood lust/hero was a must to get our tame in before the next fear. People were using drums and haste potions and haste gear and haste trinket procs.. and, well anything to get us over the line. The biggest problem most found was getting lust/hero. By this expansion however, we had our own in ancient hysteria from corehounds. People hunting for Krush were taming a trash core hound for just this tame.

There were macros that involved, chugging down pots, using trinkets, casting ancient hysteria, abandoning your trash hound and then casting tame beast. It was crazy, exciting and nerve wracking days, but back to the current problem.

This time however, all we need is another pet to help us out, a Gorrilla with their family ability Pummel.
Instant 30 sec cooldown
Pummel the target, interrupting spellcasting and preventing any spell in that school from being cast for 2 sec.
and there is your interrupt as BM.

I would suggest you turn growl off and limit the use of KC to make sure you’re the one with the threat at all times. One your engage have your pet on passive for a little until you get an aggro lead and then send it in to smack away at it and keep it in rage for Pummel when needed. Once you get Hutia down in health enough to tame, interrupt it’s next heal once more, stand behind and frost trap and then use ye'old faithful abandon pet macro, /deterrence, /tame beast.

Hey presto, Hutia on your BM.

And in before people complain that that’s too much work/too hard to tame it, it's a hell of a lot less than Krush...
(Which I don’t remember hunters QQ'ing to blizzard that "it's too hard for me! Why do you hate hunters!!!")

Hutia, had a 10 minute spawn timer
Krush, good luck finding him even once, than alone and if you got one attempt before he was ganked by somone else.

Hutia, screw up and abandon your gorilla and need to try again, not to worry there are gorillas just around the corner in the same zone.
Krush, was there even a core hound anywhere in Northrend?

Hutia, bring a full stable of 5 Gorillas? Not that hard now with 50 pets slot now. :lol:
Krush, Hmm 5 pets, which pet will I have to lose to have just one gorilla!

Hutia, pummel, 30 second cooldown.
Krush, Hysteria, 10 MINUTE! debuff cooldown.

And in before people complain that we should not even have to deal with this, they broke it by taking away SS, it's not our fault!!! I know! It's freaking annoying, I'm with you on this one, the only class without a baseline interrupt, it’s pretty much a really really bad joke. But.... if you really want Hutai next patch and they don’t give us an interrupt...technically it's still doable ;)

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Re: BM new problems with talent changes vs. taming Hutia

Unread post by SpiritBinder » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:56 pm

Nevish wrote:Only rational way that I can work about that is to have a pet with interrupt to abandon before taming...say, a monkey or moth, which have long ability CDs and will taunt off if Intimidation is used. Not exactly lucrative.
Dammit, you kind of beat me. ;)

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Re: BM new problems with talent changes vs. taming Hutia

Unread post by Kalliope » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:06 pm

The reason I'm concerned about this change is that even though pet interrupts are possible, it's an added layer of difficulty that wasn't there when the mini-encounter was designed.

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Re: BM new problems with talent changes vs. taming Hutia

Unread post by Quiv » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:14 pm

I'm glad I got my Sky Mirror off the pandaren rare before this change!

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Re: BM new problems with talent changes vs. taming Hutia

Unread post by SpiritBinder » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:20 pm

Kalliope wrote:The reason I'm concerned about this change is that even though pet interrupts are possible, it's an added layer of difficulty that wasn't there when the mini-encounter was designed.
And I totally agree, it will certainly add another layer of complexity to fight having to abandon a current pet that’s your “interrupter” before taming the one you want.
Its blaringly obvious that they did not care to think of this before just removing SS from BM. I’m equally over PvP funking up PVE as everyone else, my head barley stops spinning from the last change before another gets thrown in.

To add, I don’t mind the complexity, but agree if it was the intent to start with as well. This complexity was only added as a by-product of them not seeing the ramification of removing SS, not matter how fun or un-fun it will now make this tame.

There are a lot of other Spirit Beast options out there for them to not give a rats about how hard this one may become. If they don’t give us an interrupt of some sort, I’m afraid that this unintentional complexity will quite possibly stay for a while.

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Re: BM new problems with talent changes vs. taming Hutia

Unread post by MadHatterBunny » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:05 pm

I still don't like the BM pet stun as a talent. I've played BM since the beginning. I welcomed SS into my spellbook because it was a needed upgrade for pve. I would rather see SS as an option for all hunter specs. The three trees can use it and be very helpful in dungeons and raids. Not only that SS is a core ability to help us out when we need to help out our tanking pet. Certain enemy abilities require a counter or our pet is seriously hurting when our heals are trying to go off. My talent focus is different as I do a lot of dungeons/raids. I would rather leave out the mend talent because it is taking an important slot I can use in my play style.

Rare tames/dinomancers and other enemies require some form of an interrupt. The BM pet stun is useful, but against the panda monk rares, dinomancers, hutia/other, once the stun is up the AI will cast again (heals/really deadly spells). Giving all specs SS gave them an interrupt balance in most situations of the game. It became a core element. Some hunters may pick something else, but it was useful because I could play my favorite spec and be helpful. On an even ground.

I can use a pet stun for hutia. My only worry is that pet stuns my be treated like the BM pet stun spell later.

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Re: BM new problems with talent changes vs. taming Hutia

Unread post by Nevish » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:20 am

SpiritBinder wrote:
Kalliope wrote:The reason I'm concerned about this change is that even though pet interrupts are possible, it's an added layer of difficulty that wasn't there when the mini-encounter was designed.
And I totally agree, it will certainly add another layer of complexity to fight having to abandon a current pet that’s your “interrupter” before taming the one you want.
Its blaringly obvious that they did not care to think of this before just removing SS from BM. I’m equally over PvP funking up PVE as everyone else, my head barley stops spinning from the last change before another gets thrown in.

To add, I don’t mind the complexity, but agree if it was the intent to start with as well. This complexity was only added as a by-product of them not seeing the ramification of removing SS, not matter how fun or un-fun it will now make this tame.

There are a lot of other Spirit Beast options out there for them to not give a rats about how hard this one may become. If they don’t give us an interrupt of some sort, I’m afraid that this unintentional complexity will quite possibly stay for a while.
Took the words right outta my mouth. There's a difference between a deliberate mechanical complexity, and a technical oversight caused by careless alteration or nerfing. Right now, we are neck deep in the latter. I almost want there to be an in-game ability called "Lack of Foresight", because that's what 90% of our class problems are caused by.

The irony goes deeper because Hutia was supposed to be a "quick fix" to people trying to get spirit beasts but not having the time to camp for the rarer ones. Now we have one more pet that people will have a hard time getting because of poorly thought out mechanical errors.

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Re: BM new problems with talent changes vs. taming Hutia

Unread post by MadHatterBunny » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:09 am

Nevish wrote:
SpiritBinder wrote:
Kalliope wrote:The reason I'm concerned about this change is that even though pet interrupts are possible, it's an added layer of difficulty that wasn't there when the mini-encounter was designed.
And I totally agree, it will certainly add another layer of complexity to fight having to abandon a current pet that’s your “interrupter” before taming the one you want.
Its blaringly obvious that they did not care to think of this before just removing SS from BM. I’m equally over PvP funking up PVE as everyone else, my head barley stops spinning from the last change before another gets thrown in.

To add, I don’t mind the complexity, but agree if it was the intent to start with as well. This complexity was only added as a by-product of them not seeing the ramification of removing SS, not matter how fun or un-fun it will now make this tame.

There are a lot of other Spirit Beast options out there for them to not give a rats about how hard this one may become. If they don’t give us an interrupt of some sort, I’m afraid that this unintentional complexity will quite possibly stay for a while.
Took the words right outta my mouth. There's a difference between a deliberate mechanical complexity, and a technical oversight caused by careless alteration or nerfing. Right now, we are neck deep in the latter. I almost want there to be an in-game ability called "Lack of Foresight", because that's what 90% of our class problems are caused by.

The irony goes deeper because Hutia was supposed to be a "quick fix" to people trying to get spirit beasts but not having the time to camp for the rarer ones. Now we have one more pet that people will have a hard time getting because of poorly thought out mechanical errors.
I agree.

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Re: BM new problems with talent changes vs. taming Hutia

Unread post by Slickrock » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:02 pm

I've suggested to GC that if they don't want to give Silencing back to BM, that they either: a) nerf the beasts that require a silence, or b) add a silence mechanism to taming.

Not ideal, but better than not having realistic access to these pets due to PVP-inspired nerfs.
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Re: BM new problems with talent changes vs. taming Hutia

Unread post by Slapperfish » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:14 pm

Even if we DO end up having to use pets to interrupt Hutia, there's still the fact that we have to DISMISS our pet once we hit the tameable phase, thus wasting precious time that could be spent preparing Deterrence, haste potions, Tame Beast, etc. and running the risk of Hutia getting in our faces and two-shotting us.

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Re: BM new problems with talent changes vs. taming Hutia

Unread post by Kalliope » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:25 pm

Slapperfish wrote:Even if we DO end up having to use pets to interrupt Hutia, there's still the fact that we have to DISMISS our pet once we hit the tameable phase, thus wasting precious time that could be spent preparing Deterrence, haste potions, Tame Beast, etc. and running the risk of Hutia getting in our faces and two-shotting us.
And/or healing.

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Re: BM new problems with talent changes vs. taming Hutia

Unread post by Slapperfish » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:09 pm

Kalliope wrote:
Slapperfish wrote:Even if we DO end up having to use pets to interrupt Hutia, there's still the fact that we have to DISMISS our pet once we hit the tameable phase, thus wasting precious time that could be spent preparing Deterrence, haste potions, Tame Beast, etc. and running the risk of Hutia getting in our faces and two-shotting us.
And/or healing.
Hence the "etc." :3

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Re: BM new problems with talent changes vs. taming Hutia

Unread post by Quiv » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:15 pm

Well this NYI glyph might help...

http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=146657

Glyph of Scattered Thoughts (NYI)
Your Scatter Shot no longer Disorients the target, but now interrupts their spellcasts, preventing any spells in the same school from being cast for 4 sec, and Scatter Shot's range is increasd by 0 yards.

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Re: BM new problems with talent changes vs. taming Hutia

Unread post by Ickabob » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:55 pm

They need to just give us an interrupt. We shouldn't have to beg friends to help us or rely on crappy pet interrupts. Plain and simple.

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