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Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:44 am 
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Grand Master Hunter
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Still a little "ehh" on hunters damage as it is, but then again it can vary and we're looking a little better. It's all about I the gear and how well you can actually play your class. If you can pull out good damage as a hunter (in a raid in Draenor) perhaps the term "Huntard" shall be dropped?

Give a hunter good gear and a good rotation and you can pull out a load of DPS. However I do what my guild were getting annoyed about. Monks aren't looking as good as they used to.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:12 am 
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Well I finally got off my duff about checking what my damage was actually going to look like in 6.0 since I do raid Heroics and I am more often than not the top dps on a boss. So all of the talk about how bad we're doing in 6.0 started to get to me considering our team got to H Garry this week and it's becoming more and more apparent we probably aren't going to down him if it isn't before Tuesday.

Here's the sims as of today for T16H:
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http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/T16H-Stat-Raid-10-9-14.html

Soooo, I decided to download Skada for beta, copy Enikka over to beta again and get an idea of what 6.0 is going to look like in reality.

In a raid fully buffed on live now, I average 450k on a ST fight like H Malk/Jugg. On a training dummy on beta without buffs, I can barely break 10k. That would obviously be a bit higher with buffs, but that's still pretty awful. I'm legitimately concerned about the ability to even do mythic if we're being gutted so bad in comparison to the other classes. I really hope I'm worrying over nothing here, I know we usually tend to start expacs towards the bottom of the pack. But, we also don't generally have to suddenly double our raid roster to do the same content we did the week prior either.

I'm also going to refuse the idea that I need to go MM to be competitive. I'll switch to an alt before I play that spec. I was forced into it during Firelands and before. I'm not doing it again, Enikka can sit the sidelines if that's the case.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:48 pm 
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Isn't T16 the current tier? T17 is the new tier I thought.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:33 pm 
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I'd say keep in mind that that's only level 90 stats, and the classes rank much differently at 100.

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Now, there's no saying if this will be absolutely accurate, but that's how simulators were ranking classes at 100!

That said, at 90, that does indeed rEALLY SUCK for hunters. And BM isn't looking all that much better at 100, though MM is shooting ahead. ...Actually 100 sucks for hunters in general unless you're MM.

I'm sure this won't last and things will change, though.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:26 am 
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All my favorite classes are kind of sucking. Ret pallies, shadow priests, and BM hunters. The only things worse than BM in that tally are one type of spriest and the -tanks-. That's awful!

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Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:53 am 
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Demonology....is second on that list, That is my Favorite Warlock spec


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Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:25 am 
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Well, if nothing else I can dust off my Arc mage and Fury warrior. I hated having to go Arms but Fury was just too ridiculously whackamole and I couldn't keep up with the rotation while running around like a ninny (required for pretty much every MoP raid boss as far as I can tell).

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Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:53 am 
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I don't sim much, are these based on standing still the entire time? Watching the fights on beta, theres hardly any of that, and hunters have a large range of mobile-friendly dps. Those rankings wont be the same in reality I think. I doubt we'll end up all specs in top third, but we will rise when we see our mobile dps in action.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:29 am 
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Jeez this is making me all so nervous D:
This isn't all final..right? They have to know that having dps just slightly better than a tank's is pretty bad...right?
This is nerve wracking.. because I feel like it'll go live with us sucking....and Blizzard won't do much to fix it....
I mean..they kinda let specs go down the pits all the time.. so I'm just scared DX


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Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:41 am 
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At least shadow priests got a nerf? Ever tired 1v1'ing one in a BG? There's no point. You're crushed, and you can't touch them! Still sad to see hunters damage low, and as it's so close to release I'm worried that we hunters aren't going to be doing anything at all. However, could be worse. Blood DK's are low on that list...those are so powerful!

I don't want to go MM for PvE, and get rid of SV. But...I may have to. But MM seems so bleh.

*sprinkles a load of salt everywhere*

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Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:49 pm 
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Yeah, very much keep in mind, folks, that these are numbers from simulators- not real people doing the dps. Also, they're very likely not taking into consideration fight mechanics. These simulators give us an idea of what it's like at the moment, but it's a very vague idea! Many many things will change.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:19 am 
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Okay..! Cus I raid in guild that's moving on to try and become a hardcore raiding guild and I got startled :lol:


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Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:03 am 
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Kayro wrote:
At least shadow priests got a nerf? Ever tired 1v1'ing one in a BG? There's no point. You're crushed, and you can't touch them! Still sad to see hunters damage low, and as it's so close to release I'm worried that we hunters aren't going to be doing anything at all. However, could be worse. Blood DK's are low on that list...those are so powerful!

I don't want to go MM for PvE, and get rid of SV. But...I may have to. But MM seems so bleh.

*sprinkles a load of salt everywhere*

BGing against one doesn't mean they're good in pve. :P These charts don't symbolize anything in pvp. These are for raiding stats. Shadow Priests are at the very bottom currently in dps so no, it's not a good thing they're nerfed. I've been wanting to play my SPriest without being a laughing stock in a raid.

Actually, any notes I read, they've been buffed a great deal compared to now. They're trying to fix SPriests so we can actually compete in the dps charts.

and guys, I can't stress this enough: Play what you want! You don't have to drop a spec you like to play one you hate. Unless you're in a heroic raiding guild(pretty sure most of us aren't), you don't have to drop anything. You're not forced to. You don't have to. No one's telling you to. :P Please please please just play what spec makes you happy. I'm not switching away from BM. BM is my favorite and I really don't care if it's not the best spec.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:14 pm 
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Even in heroic/mythic raiding guilds, a lot of them (mine included) are willing to give some freedom to their members. To quote my guild leader from a recent State of the Guild/Q&A (italic emphasis mine):
Nahela wrote:
9) What's the plan with people that underperform or play bad specs?

There's two parts to this surrounded by a ton of misconception. The first is that performance is tied purely to output. Raw output is important, but it is far from the sole factor in determining a solid raider. Someone that puts out 90% of their max potential but rarely makes mistakes is typically going to be a better raider than someone that puts out 100% of their max potential but is continually needing battle rezzes or flubbing mechanics. If you're "CRUSHING THE METERS" but ignore mechanics, tunneling bosses, or spending 25% of the time dead on the floor, then WoD is going to be an eye opener. That being said of course, if someone is consistently executing mechanics but putting out 50-60% of their potential, they're not going to be in a good place either and that's an important distinction to make.

The other part here is spec choice. There's actually been fewer and fewer cases as time goes on of significant difference between specs. Aside from Disc, Destro, and Fury there haven't been many cases throughout T16 where there was more than a ~5% difference in spec output. Ideally going forward this is something that will continue to be improved upon in WoD, but it's something I'll be keeping an eye on regardless to make sure we're all on the same page. I would rather someone play a spec that's 3-4% behind that they enjoy and play well than play the 'best' spec poorly or not enjoy themselves. Player enjoyment, particularly in our environment, is an enormous factor in terms of raid performance. That being said, if you want to play Arms and it's 10-15% behind Fury, we're going to have a chat.

I think super bleeding edge guilds (DS was in the top 100 US H-Garrosh I think? so better than that, lol) may be stricter with it but super bleeding edge guilds also typically keep a much larger roster and swap people around on a fight-to-fight basis to get every advantage they can get. We don't typically do that, nor do many of the guilds I've talked to over the years. Your mileage may vary, per usual (but you should maybe think about upgrading to a hybrid in that case, tee hee)

That said, according to one of my hunter guildies, the sim's double dipping the MM mastery and wasn't simming something else properly, which is why MM is showing so much higher than SV and BM. Which isn't really especially promising for hunters in general but at least if MM's sim is more in line with SV and BM when those bugs get worked out, at least we're not looking at everyone feeling obligated to play MM if they're playing a hunter at all.

I really think we'll get a better view of the level 90 situation once people are, you know, actually grabbing data from level 90 content and we can see some real numbers, not simulated buggy patchwerk numbers :x

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Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:41 pm 
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I didn't want to believe the charts. But before 6.0, in a normal (now heroic) run, I'd pull around 300k, sometimes more depending on the fight. I'd always be in the top two dps. Now? 7-8k dps, and I'm now not first or second, I'm usually 4th, 5th or even 6th dps.

I'm 573 ilvl. I'm BM, so I guess I should try mm. But nearly being beat by a mage that has 5 lfr pieces is ridiculous.

My 530 feral druid is already pulling 4k dps with a 484 weap. So what does that mean if they were my ilvl? :\


Edit: On Garrosh as BM, I was 10th in dps. Something is clearly wrong here.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:11 pm 
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Lupen202 wrote:
I didn't want to believe the charts. But before 6.0, in a normal (now heroic) run, I'd pull around 300k, sometimes more depending on the fight. I'd always be in the top two dps. Now? 7-8k dps, and I'm now not first or second, I'm usually 4th, 5th or even 6th dps.

I'm 573 ilvl. I'm BM, so I guess I should try mm. But nearly being beat by a mage that has 5 lfr pieces is ridiculous.

My 530 feral druid is already pulling 4k dps with a 484 weap. So what does that mean if they were my ilvl? :\


Edit: On Garrosh as BM, I was 10th in dps. Something is clearly wrong here.


To cooborate, I'm 576, and saw the same thing last night. 8k as BM, maybe 11k as MM.

Also saw Roger from Method streaming today. He was dead last.

The sims were correct. We suck at the moment.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:18 pm 
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Well, perhaps there's some hope. At least they're aware of the issue.

https://twitter.com/Celestalon/status/5 ... 8752609281

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Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:06 pm 
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I'm really happy to see they're addressing our sudden drop in performance and are hopefully either reconsidering giving us back certain abilities we lost (serpent sting and for us MM hunters, arcane shot ;----;) or giving us new ones. Truthfully I saw nothing wrong with us since we still weren't topping charts iirc in previous end-game content so I'm hoping we'll get a few of our abilities back instead of getting new ones

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Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:24 pm 
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Honestly I don't see why adjustments can't be made for PvE and PvP separately.
It seems like for the most part, Blizzard wants to avoid this method of balance, but why couldn't we keep Stampede and Scatter Shot with reduced damage/duration vs enemy players?

I don't think those abilities were particularly broken outside of arenas, and it hurts our individual survivability/damage.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:29 pm 
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Anyone notice MD being fickle? I mean I MD the tank, AoE, then pet gets all the agro and almost (or does) die. :| :mrgreen:

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