Changes to Hunter Pet Families in 6.0

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Nachtwulf
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Re: Changes to Hunter Pet Families in 6.0

#101 Unread post by Nachtwulf » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:10 pm

They're trying to -reduce- CC though. If they're seriously reducing CC, why do hunters have three versions (or even four, if the variability of range goes live) of the same effect? Give them the root back or something, just so it's different. If they're "removing pet CC" which is what they've SAID they're doing, then they ought to remove this too.

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Re: Changes to Hunter Pet Families in 6.0

#102 Unread post by SpiritBinder » Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:43 am

Nachtwulf wrote:They're trying to -reduce- CC though. If they're seriously reducing CC, why do hunters have three versions (or even four, if the variability of range goes live) of the same effect? Give them the root back or something, just so it's different. If they're "removing pet CC" which is what they've SAID they're doing, then they ought to remove this too.
Slows have never been classified a CC, It never controls a characters ability to do anything, simple slows their ability to move. Roots control a characters ability to move, it effectively stop them from doing it, hence it’s classified a form of CC. It is one of the weaker version of a CC due to you still being able to cast/attack anything in range, and was also one of the last CC to be give a diminishing returns effect, but it’s still a CC, and there are currently a LOT of them…

~~~ Roots ~~~~

~ Death Knight
Chains of Ice
~ Druid
Entangling Roots
Mass Entanglement
~ Hunter
Charge (Tenacity pet)
Narrow Escape
Pin (Crab pet)
Lock Jaw (Dog pet)
Web (Spider pet)
Web Spray (Silithid pet)
~ Mage
Freeze (Water Elemental)
Frost Nova
~ Monk
Disable
~ Priest
Glyph of Mind Blast
Void Tendrils
~ Rogue
Paralytic Poison (Shiv Effect)
~ Shaman
Frost Shock (including Frozen Power)
~ Warrior
Staggering Shout
Warbringer

That said, there are still are some (shorter) roots that do not share not share diminishing returns with the above Roots category

~ Hunter
Entrapment
~ Mage
Ice Ward
~ Monk
Spinning Fire Blossom
~ Shaman
Earthgrab Totem

But if they are going to remove all CC from pets, even if it is the weakest and still possibly a common type, they can’t leave any roots on our pets. I get it, it would be so good if we could still have a pet that could root a target, but the best/closest thing they can give us, is a slow at this point in time…. unless they change their mind on pet CC.

Xota wrote: I just think it's absolute bunk that exotic Silithid will have melee range snare while non-exotic spiders and warp stalkers will have 25 yard range. Silithid have been spitting webs at range since they've been tameable.
THIS I think is something that I needs to be addressed also, It is hopefully more of an oversight than an intended change.

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Re: Changes to Hunter Pet Families in 6.0

#103 Unread post by Ickabob » Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:31 pm

I really don't see slows as a 'problem CC' like a stuns and fears. Hell, I'd rather be slowed forever and actually be able to control my character, rather than be stunned or feared and unable to do jack about it.

Slows were never the problem, there's really no need to trim them away.

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Re: Changes to Hunter Pet Families in 6.0

#104 Unread post by Kurasu » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:54 am

Looking at the info, I'm going to third the 'hydras should have multistrike' view. They could easily move the Mastery to one of the other pets (which have no real thematic need for either ability).

I also see that Spirit Beasts are still being shafted. Where every Exotic has three abilities, they only have two and a minor ability that even a normal pet is getting along with their buff. Either that, or cats are being overpowered by having two full-level abilities where most non-exotics only have one.

Unless the spirit beast stealth is powered up from the cats' ability? Or the heal/Mastery buff are being increased to a point where the loss of an ability is not an issue? I could live with either of those (preferably the heal, though I'm a tad biased).
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Re: Changes to Hunter Pet Families in 6.0

#105 Unread post by pop » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:36 am

-snip- wrong thread

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Re: Changes to Hunter Pet Families in 6.0

#106 Unread post by Xota » Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:15 pm

Kurasu wrote:Looking at the info, I'm going to third the 'hydras should have multistrike' view. They could easily move the Mastery to one of the other pets (which have no real thematic need for either ability).

I also see that Spirit Beasts are still being shafted. Where every Exotic has three abilities, they only have two and a minor ability that even a normal pet is getting along with their buff. Either that, or cats are being overpowered by having two full-level abilities where most non-exotics only have one.

Unless the spirit beast stealth is powered up from the cats' ability? Or the heal/Mastery buff are being increased to a point where the loss of an ability is not an issue? I could live with either of those (preferably the heal, though I'm a tad biased).
Spirit beasts' stealth should allow them to move at normal speeds, I'm tired of having to wait on Tlehuitzotl to waddle into range of a mob in order to drop stealth. And let their stealth remove dots when out of combat, pet's dots keep breaking my camo. But I agree, the heal should be buffed as well. Like "also heals pet when cast on target that's not the pet" or let spirit beasts gain Resolve.

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Re: Changes to Hunter Pet Families in 6.0

#107 Unread post by pop » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:02 pm

Mmochamp updated pet skills. Funnily embrace of the shale spider see s to be renamed as strentgh of the earth. Somethig tells me that gyreworm and shales spider are gonna gonna be regrouped.

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Re: Changes to Hunter Pet Families in 6.0

#108 Unread post by Krysteena » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:40 am

pop wrote:Mmochamp updated pet skills. Funnily embrace of the shale spider see s to be renamed as strentgh of the earth. Somethig tells me that gyreworm and shales spider are gonna gonna be regrouped.
Am I mistaken in believing gyreworms are like the boss in Stonecore? The one that throws Manadtorm off the ledge and is optional, as he's easy to skip? If so...gimme! They'd be so cool!

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Re: Changes to Hunter Pet Families in 6.0

#109 Unread post by pop » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:45 am

Kayro wrote:
pop wrote:Mmochamp updated pet skills. Funnily embrace of the shale spider see s to be renamed as strentgh of the earth. Somethig tells me that gyreworm and shales spider are gonna gonna be regrouped.
Am I mistaken in believing gyreworms are like the boss in Stonecore? The one that throws Manadtorm off the ledge and is optional, as he's easy to skip? If so...gimme! They'd be so cool!
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Re: Changes to Hunter Pet Families in 6.0

#110 Unread post by Krysteena » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:47 am

pop wrote:
Kayro wrote:
pop wrote:Mmochamp updated pet skills. Funnily embrace of the shale spider see s to be renamed as strentgh of the earth. Somethig tells me that gyreworm and shales spider are gonna gonna be regrouped.
Am I mistaken in believing gyreworms are like the boss in Stonecore? The one that throws Manadtorm off the ledge and is optional, as he's easy to skip? If so...gimme! They'd be so cool!
Yes, available in your favourite gem colour too. Get alll 5 now!
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Re: Changes to Hunter Pet Families in 6.0

#111 Unread post by Nachtwulf » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:17 pm

I just wish they'd ditch the stupid restriction that you have to wait until 69 to even tame exotics. There's all these low level exotics now and despite being (mostly) rare, and thus hunt-able, they're worthless as anything but xp-bait. Given that pet abilities scale, and that they've removed almost all CC from pets (which should shut the pvpers up) I don't understand how getting exotics as, you know, the MAIN DEFINING THING ABOUT BEAST MASTERY should have to wait until so bloody late in the game.

I mean, you get -Titan's GRIP- at like... 36 or something stupid now. And Titan's Grip is pretty damn potent for a lowbie.

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Re: Changes to Hunter Pet Families in 6.0

#112 Unread post by chrth » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:43 pm

Nachtwulf wrote:I just wish they'd ditch the stupid restriction that you have to wait until 69 to even tame exotics. There's all these low level exotics now and despite being (mostly) rare, and thus hunt-able, they're worthless as anything but xp-bait. Given that pet abilities scale, and that they've removed almost all CC from pets (which should shut the pvpers up) I don't understand how getting exotics as, you know, the MAIN DEFINING THING ABOUT BEAST MASTERY should have to wait until so bloody late in the game.

I mean, you get -Titan's GRIP- at like... 36 or something stupid now. And Titan's Grip is pretty damn potent for a lowbie.
Oddly enough we're discussing this over at Wowinsider right now ... how weird.

The most compelling explanation is that an exotic pet may imbalance low level BGs

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Re: Changes to Hunter Pet Families in 6.0

#113 Unread post by Praedator » Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:37 pm

chrth wrote: Oddly enough we're discussing this over at Wowinsider right now ... how weird.

The most compelling explanation is that an exotic pet may imbalance low level BGs
There aren't that many exotic families open at low levels so even then exotic pets will slowly trickle in. Chimeras show up first since they are first encountered at level 12, and core hound will show up as well since the Kurken(two headed wolf) is level 12, also theres a level 12 worm. Next shale spiders due to the low level rares(around 30s). Then devilsaurs, rhinos, and silithids(40-60). Then, water striders(60-70). Then, a person is at 69 anyways so they would have unlocked all of them anyways.

The only problem I can foresee is ancient hysteria at really low levels, but even then its a percentage not a fixed number so its wouldn't be too bad. For example 30% of 12 is 4.

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Re: Changes to Hunter Pet Families in 6.0

#114 Unread post by Quiv » Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:33 pm

They could simply have the pets extra exotic ability not be learned until 69. If that was the case, a level 48 devilsaur and level 48 wolf would be identical.

Granted the WoD changes gave exotics 3 abilities verses normal pets 1, but even then they could just lock out two abilities until 69 or whatever level(s) they think is balanced.
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Re: Changes to Hunter Pet Families in 6.0

#115 Unread post by Nachtwulf » Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:07 pm

Yeah, I agree. And really... all ancient hysteria is is a slight haste boost. It's not a big deal.

Though since the code is already in place for pets to learn abilities at a given point (they don't get their base species skill until 20, cats don't get their mastery boost until 80 or something) it would be very simple to stage the exotics the same way.

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Re: Changes to Hunter Pet Families in 6.0

#116 Unread post by Sesamee » Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:58 am

So are hook wasps and wasps two separate families again? Did Blizz change their minds about merging the two?

ETA: what about Rylaks? what are their abilities? or are they in the chimera family? I hope not as they can't even fly like chimera pets.

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Re: Changes to Hunter Pet Families in 6.0

#117 Unread post by Arcanimus » Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:39 pm

I've made an updated pet abilities spreadsheet. Currently each family links to its respective family page on the main site, and each buff links to its respective spellid on wowhead.

For the families whose pages do not exist yet, I've opted to pre-link to them (following current naming conventions, of course), but if required I can easily change them.

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Re: Changes to Hunter Pet Families in 6.0

#118 Unread post by SpiritBinder » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:08 pm

Great spread sheet! Really easy to navigate and cross reference! :)
Arcanimus wrote: For the families whose pages do not exist yet, I've opted to pre-link to them (following current naming conventions, of course), but if required I can easily change them.
Was the Shale Spider --> Shale Beast family name change confirmed yet? I was looking around for it but came up short.
Kurasu wrote: I also see that Spirit Beasts are still being shafted. Where every Exotic has three abilities, they only have two and a minor ability that even a normal pet is getting along with their buff. Either that, or cats are being overpowered by having two full-level abilities where most non-exotics only have one.
THIS! ^

I was chatting about this the other day actually. What I would LOVE for them to do is give them a "Spirit Resurrection" of sorts. This would not be a battle resurrection, but and actual out of combat, cast timed resurrection that all healers have. It's not really OP by any means that I can think of, but actually adds a pretty dam nifty utility to a Pet Family themed around Healing and Spirits. Just make it cost 100 pet focus or something is also fine, or dare I say, remove their Spirit walk so they could have it?
Anyways, I just think it would add an awesome addition to a family that is now just a little lacking as Kurasu said.

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Re: Changes to Hunter Pet Families in 6.0

#119 Unread post by Xella » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:33 am

I may be behind the times (haven't been in beta much lately), but did sporebats get merged with a different family? I can't seem to find them in your spreadsheet :x

(Looks super fab tho, I know my brain isn't gonna work very well with the ability changes for a good couple months, so it's nice to have something so easy to reference! :B)
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Re: Changes to Hunter Pet Families in 6.0

#120 Unread post by Xota » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:15 pm

SpiritBinder wrote:Great spread sheet! Really easy to navigate and cross reference! :)
Arcanimus wrote: For the families whose pages do not exist yet, I've opted to pre-link to them (following current naming conventions, of course), but if required I can easily change them.
Was the Shale Spider --> Shale Beast family name change confirmed yet? I was looking around for it but came up short.
Kurasu wrote: I also see that Spirit Beasts are still being shafted. Where every Exotic has three abilities, they only have two and a minor ability that even a normal pet is getting along with their buff. Either that, or cats are being overpowered by having two full-level abilities where most non-exotics only have one.
THIS! ^

I was chatting about this the other day actually. What I would LOVE for them to do is give them a "Spirit Resurrection" of sorts. This would not be a battle resurrection, but and actual out of combat, cast timed resurrection that all healers have. It's not really OP by any means that I can think of, but actually adds a pretty dam nifty utility to a Pet Family themed around Healing and Spirits. Just make it cost 100 pet focus or something is also fine, or dare I say, remove their Spirit walk so they could have it?
Anyways, I just think it would add an awesome addition to a family that is now just a little lacking as Kurasu said.
I have a different idea, in part because I find the spirit beasts' stealth pretty useful at not pulling extra mobs I'm running/riding past. Plus everyone who is guilded is going to get mass rez, so you could either use mass rez or a brez to res a healer, and then they rez everyone else. When soloing, it would have no utility to help yourself. Just my opinion, obviously a matter of preference.
So maybe cats' and spirit beasts' stealth could be differentiated a little. Nerf cats' so there's no bonus damage. A lot of the exotic abilities look most useful when you're soloing stuff, and your pet is your tank. And initial pounce helps in the speed you clear stuff you're farming, but in raids or arenas, you're not going to get as much use out of it. That's why I think it would help make spirit beasts' pounce an exotic ability, and make cats' stealth just a little bonus ability. The second change is that spirit beasts' prowl shouldn't slow them down. It really cramps a hunter's murderous rhythm to have to wait for a stealthed tanking pet to waddle into position.

Also, the 50% movement speed reduction (snare) on spider is different than the others. The spider's is ranged, and all the others are melee range. Including the silithid, which has always spit webs before. Also, chimaeras are as shafted as spirit beasts, with only two abilities instead of three.

edit:
just saw I already mentioned spirit beast stealth speed. Sorry for spamming :P
Last edited by Xota on Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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