Two Active Pets for BM in Legion?

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Xota
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Re: Two Active Pets for BM in Legion?

Unread post by Xota » Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:20 pm

This would be my feedback, but I cynical about non-testers' feedback being dismissed after what happened with grounding in WoD.
On use: Summon/dismiss Titanspark Guardian.
and an option to imbue the spirit of Hati on a pre-existing pet, making it the Titanspark Guardian instead.

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Re: Two Active Pets for BM in Legion?

Unread post by Shade » Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:26 pm

SpiritBinder wrote:
Bendak wrote: Also for those curious, Hati is dismissed if you dismiss your main pet. Hati can also take damage and die. If she dies, there is a 2 min debuff called "broken bond" before she is summoned again. I had to force this situation to test it out since it's not something that's going to happen much in practice (except maybe in pvp).
She will not follow any orders to return/passive setting/etc. that is connected to your pet however.

If you send you pet in to attack, once you or you pet attach the target, then she joins the fray. She does not respond to any pet attack commands that you use for your main pet.

If she is chewin on a Mob/dummy, you have to dismiss your pet (and her) or unequip the gun or she will not stop, she is set to aggressive and you can't pull her off anything or command her to chew a target of your choosing.

If you unequip the gun to dismiss her, it is not instant, it still take a few seconds for her to dsspawn. Dismissing her via dismiss pet seems to be the fastest way to force off a target/out of combat, but unfortunately you are then forced to dismiss you main pet also.

She does not feel overly responsive, but again it may that because she technically belongs to the gun and is only as a guardian for you. Hopefully after a bit more testing feed back she feels more complimentary.
How does she react if you feign death I wonder? I usually use that to quickly drop aggro from myself and my pet most often.

Also, reading the spoiler on Hati-I can see how they tied her to the gun-unfortunately it still doesn't make me like the model any, le sigh. Just will have to get use to it or do something that I've never willing done since joining wow and change my hunter's spec. Happily there are a number of class and spec changes on my other toons that I am looking forward to this expansion-just sad that I am not thrilled, as of yet, for what is happening to what has been my main class and spec for over six years. Ah well.

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Re: Two Active Pets for BM in Legion?

Unread post by zedxrgal » Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:23 am

SpiritBinder wrote:Also, Hati is a She ^.^
Wait. All the Norse mythology I've read Hati was /is a boy.
In Norse mythology, Sköll (Old Norse "Treachery") is a warg that chases the horses Árvakr and Alsviðr, that drag the chariot which contains the sun (Sól) through the sky every day, trying to eat her. Sköll has a brother, Hati, who chases Máni, the moon.


So is Hati being female Blizzard's lore or is there more mythology I am missing?? :?

I'm so confused.

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Re: Two Active Pets for BM in Legion?

Unread post by Slickrock » Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:32 am

Eh, I will level 2-3 hunters as BM and MM to remain viable through buffs and nerfs through the expac. I don't mind the model either.

My main concern would be an out-of-control guardian.
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Re: Two Active Pets for BM in Legion?

Unread post by zedxrgal » Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:47 am

Shade wrote:Also, reading the spoiler on Hati-I can see how they tied her to the gun-unfortunately it still doesn't make me like the model any, le sigh. Just will have to get use to it or do something that I've never willing done since joining wow and change my hunter's spec. Happily there are a number of class and spec changes on my other toons that I am looking forward to this expansion-just sad that I am not thrilled, as of yet, for what is happening to what has been my main class and spec for over six years. Ah well.
Sorry for the double post but this pretty much exactly is my thoughts & feelings.

I know its alpha. Nothing set in stone. But currently things are not something I am liking. Since 04 I've been BM and now that will probably change or my hunters probably won't get much love. It really is upsetting they used the NR worg skin for this. And this will be petty, and I'll hold final judgment till I get a more definitive answer, but it really irks me Blizz made Hati a female. I mean. No book I've ever read on mythology showed Hati as a female. But in the spoiler Hati is called "she". Which really bothers me. Ugh. Waiting to see how this shapes up. But my hunters will probably be unloved next expansion or will be SV.

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Re: Two Active Pets for BM in Legion?

Unread post by SpiritBinder » Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:12 am

Shade wrote:
How does she react if you feign death I wonder? I usually use that to quickly drop aggro from myself and my pet most often.
If you FD, she just keeps on attacking at this point in time. I macro'ed a FD and weapon swap which worked. But you have to stay down for a good 3-4 seconds for her to actually despawn. (this could be lag dependent however, but didn't seem so) I've not tried the pet FD yet, maybe thay might effect her, I'll look into it.

zedxrgal wrote:
SpiritBinder wrote:Also, Hati is a She ^.^
Wait. All the Norse mythology I've read Hati was /is a boy.
In Norse mythology, Sköll (Old Norse "Treachery") is a warg that chases the horses Árvakr and Alsviðr, that drag the chariot which contains the sun (Sól) through the sky every day, trying to eat her. Sköll has a brother, Hati, who chases Máni, the moon.


So is Hati being female Blizzard's lore or is there more mythology I am missing?? :?

I'm so confused.
During the Titan Spark quest line, Hati is referred to as "Her" a few times, so I guess that's just the direction that Blizzard has decided to go. Blizzard have always borrowed from a LOT of mythology and sometimes down right just used it straight up, but they have been many times that they have changed or swapped key parts/information about. Whether it because they are trying to create something unique or just not really into following up the the exact original. I can be very bothersome if your a stickler for using the right information in a story once told, but it's kind of hard to work our which direction they are coming from. That said, it could just be an oversite and could certainly leave feedback about it, you never know.


But your 100% right that Hati was meant to be Skolls brother according to Norse Mythology. This doesn't mean that yours can't be a boy, I've always seen my loquenahak as a girl even if it's meant to be a boy and decided she is just one of their offspring.

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Re: Two Active Pets for BM in Legion?

Unread post by Bendak » Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:38 am

SpiritBinder wrote:
She will not follow any orders to return/passive setting/etc. that is connected to your pet however.

If you send you pet in to attack, once you or you pet attach the target, then she joins the fray. She does not respond to any pet attack commands that you use for your main pet.

If she is chewin on a Mob/dummy, you have to dismiss your pet (and her) or unequip the gun or she will not stop, she is set to aggressive and you can't pull her off anything or command her to chew a target of your choosing.

If you unequip the gun to dismiss her, it is not instant, it still take a few seconds for her to dsspawn. Dismissing her via dismiss pet seems to be the fastest way to force off a target/out of combat, but unfortunately you are then forced to dismiss you main pet also.

She does not feel overly responsive, but again it may that because she technically belongs to the gun and is only as a guardian for you. Hopefully after a bit more testing feed back she feels more complimentary.
Yeah, one of the first things I did was send in feedback suggesting that Hati obey all the same commands as your main pet. It seems pretty trivial so I hope they go this route. If your pet is on passive, Hati is on passive. If you tell your pet to attack or follow, Hati does the same. I encourage every Hunter who gets into alpha/beta to send this feedback (if you agree with it) because I think the last thing we want is for Hati to ever be a nuisance. We've gotta be proactive about it. Even if you're not in beta, you can still politely tweet the devs your concerns.

Personally I am OK with Hati being a wolf, but I'd prefer if it used the draenor model or at least update/upres the WOTLK one to not look so... 2007. It kinda stands out against modern character and pet models.

Oh, and FWIW, I am having quite a bit of fun with BM so far. :D Bit rough around the edges, but let's be honest... Legion is coming out probably in August or September. There's a ton of time to improve. Half the talents don't even work right yet.
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Re: Two Active Pets for BM in Legion?

Unread post by SpiritBinder » Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:40 am

Upon a little more testing,

Hati will change to what ever target you have selected after 3-4 second, even if you aren't actively attacking it yourself and just targeting it.

If your main pet is not active, Hati will not appear, nor will she ever come out. You can swap the gun in and out while in combat and it does not make any difference, she will not spawn/assist you unless you have a pet active. As soon as you call you main pet, Hati will spawn a second or two later.

Can't find the new
  • Pet Training Manual: Play Dead
to test whether or not it works on Hati as well as your main pet (it is no longer a glyph and glyphs are also disabled on the Alpha I think) but it's a lvl 110 item, but requires lvl 32.

Dismiss pet does not work on Dire Beasts, but by the time you finish dismissing your pet they are only active for a few seconds after before they naturally despawn.




** Another unrelated hicup, Multishot seems to be adding HM to targets, even as BM, but I think that's just an oversight for the time being.

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Re: Two Active Pets for BM in Legion?

Unread post by jensketch » Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:52 pm

Bendak wrote: Oh, and FWIW, I am having quite a bit of fun with BM so far. :D Bit rough around the edges, but let's be honest... Legion is coming out probably in August or September. There's a ton of time to improve. Half the talents don't even work right yet.
This. So am I, a ton of fun. The things that are broken are very minor things. I really don't know what is up with all the hair pulling and teeth gnashing that goes on in the forums so much, I have to chalk it up to it being testy mythic raiders who want the game to be fit into the mold they expect it to be.

Marksman is what I tried first because BM wasn't out yet but BM has been a blast - it feels a little different, but that is to be expected. I imagine that those of us who move onto Legion will adjust accordingly with whatever Blizzard ends up doing.

As long as I can still solo everything, I'm fine :D :D :D And on Alpha, so far, so good -- even tough stuff.

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Re: Two Active Pets for BM in Legion?

Unread post by Xota » Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:28 pm

jensketch wrote:I really don't know what is up with all the hair pulling and teeth gnashing that goes on in the forums so much, I have to chalk it up to it being testy mythic raiders who want the game to be fit into the mold they expect it to be.
Please resist dismissing others concerns by making up their motivations.

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Re: Two Active Pets for BM in Legion?

Unread post by jensketch » Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:57 pm

Xota wrote:
jensketch wrote:I really don't know what is up with all the hair pulling and teeth gnashing that goes on in the forums so much, I have to chalk it up to it being testy mythic raiders who want the game to be fit into the mold they expect it to be.
Please resist dismissing others concerns by making up their motivations.
You should see the forums. It's night and day compared to "casual" conversations. If you only listened to the Mythic raiders who post, you'd think the entire game was going down the toilet and everything is terrible and all change is bad and Blizzard 'doesn't know what they're doing' and Blizzard 'ruined my class.' It isn't just the Beast Mastery spec - it's every spec I've tried and read the forum posts on feedback for. They are crying so loud and so hard. Foot stomping tantrums, really. Other than Shadow Priest spec, there just hasn't been any issues that I've seen that were glaring enough to accuse Blizzard of ruining the game.

I mean, some of us have been playing since closed beta, originally, 11+ years ago. Nonstop. We've done every bit of content in every iteration, every expansion, beta tested each expansion and seen the way Blizzard changes. It's a wide, wide, wide perspective and understanding.

But no, a mythic raider comes along and says what they think should happen and all of a sudden it's their word that's important? It's how they behave. Simply because I don't have any raiding down *this expansion* my feedback is deemed worthless/wrong/uninformed/<insert whatever you want here because they just make it up anyway>.

So I make my observations based on my experience, and thus; most Mythic raiders are some entitled little <#$*%^> ;) Purely from observing their behavior on the Alpha forums.

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Re: Two Active Pets for BM in Legion?

Unread post by Equeon » Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:24 pm

Xota wrote:
jensketch wrote:I really don't know what is up with all the hair pulling and teeth gnashing that goes on in the forums so much, I have to chalk it up to it being testy mythic raiders who want the game to be fit into the mold they expect it to be.
Please resist dismissing others concerns by making up their motivations.
If I could +1 or "like" this, I would.

People give feedback because they want to be heard. For things like these players' favorite classes, which they may have been playing for 10 years, a drastic change in spec identity, playstyle, or "class fantasy" may indeed ruin the game for that particular player.

While many players might feel overly entitled in expecting Blizzard to cave to their desires, this is not limited to a subset of elite players. Indeed, this mentality exists across the entire spectrum of casualness. In most cases, players bringing up their Mythic raiding or high-ranking PvP are simply doing so to add more weight to their statements on balance.

Jensketch, Just because you don't have a problem with any of the Legion changes doesn't mean you can speak for millions of players and dismiss their points or complaints as tantrums or "hair-gnashing". In fact, I find your desire to portray those who provide criticism in such a way just as childish as the behavior you describe. ;)

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Re: Two Active Pets for BM in Legion?

Unread post by jensketch » Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:12 pm

Equeon wrote:
Jensketch, Just because you don't have a problem with any of the Legion changes doesn't mean you can speak for millions of players and dismiss their points or complaints as tantrums or "hair-gnashing". In fact, I find your desire to portray those who provide criticism in such a way just as childish as the behavior you describe. ;)
Is the ;) supposed to mean you don't really mean that or take the rudeness quality out of your comment? It failed, you were rude.

In a vacuum, up in the little white tower, it's super easy to me magnanimous. Down in the trenches it's a *totally* different story.

You're sitting there from your little armchair judging when you have no idea of the facts - but hey, that's what we do on the Internet, that's ok, we're all used to it and we all have our thick skins so go right on ahead - I mean you will. Me sitting here observing your judgemental attitude won't stop you from doing it. In fact, it's likely to just keep you antagonizing me for *no reason whatsoever* just for a little e-sport. We've all seen it a million times before, so carry on please. It's ironic and mildly absurd that you're armchair tone policing. Pot here is the kettle. You two just exacerbate the *entire* thing by deciding to come in and try and tone police who can speak and how, just make everything worse, and cause drama (neither of you needed to come in here and post, but you just felt like you just *had* to because you didn't like what I wrote and so, instead of considering that what I wrote just was some emotional hyperbole and dismissing it as such, you had to come in and cause loads of drama.)

Now, however, back to the topic of BM hunters;

BM is fun, it's in a decent spot. Yes, it's changed and drastically so - but it's not difficult to sit back and adjust. It just isn't. Blizzard isn't asking us to buy a whole new game or start all over. They pruned some buttons to press. That's really all they did.

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Re: Two Active Pets for BM in Legion?

Unread post by Equeon » Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:52 pm

jensketch wrote:Is the ;) supposed to mean you don't really mean that or take the rudeness quality out of your comment? It failed, you were rude.
Oh, I was just following your lead with "put a winky face after saying something rude".
jensketch wrote:So I make my observations based on my experience, and thus; most Mythic raiders are some entitled little <#$*%^> ;)
jensketch wrote:In a vacuum, up in the little white tower, it's super easy to me magnanimous. Down in the trenches it's a *totally* different story.
You're sitting there from your little armchair judging when you have no idea of the facts - but hey, that's what we do on the Internet, that's ok, we're all used to it and we all have our thick skins so go right on ahead - I mean you will.
Ah yes, the brutal, disease-ridden and war-torn trenches of the Petopia forums. Truly, a wretched hive of scum and villainy, filled to the brim with armchair critics.
I "have no idea of the facts"? What does that even mean? We all have equal access to the datamined information of changes to the hunter class.
jensketch wrote:Me sitting here observing your judgemental attitude won't stop you from doing it.
"I have to chalk it up to it being testy mythic raiders who want the game to be fit into the mold they expect it to be." ; "They are crying so loud and so hard. Foot stomping tantrums, really."
I'm sorry, who's being judgmental here?
jensketch wrote:In fact, it's likely to just keep you antagonizing me for *no reason whatsoever* just for a little e-sport. We've all seen it a million times before, so carry on please.
No reason whatsoever? I think you essentially characterizing everyone who critiques the hunter changes as whining children is reason enough for me to object. This isn't some internet argument for the sake of it - I think you're being unnecessarily rude to people critiquing the hunter changes.
jensketch wrote:It's ironic and mildly absurd that you're armchair tone policing. Pot here is the kettle. You two just exacerbate the *entire* thing by deciding to come in and try and tone police who can speak and how, just make everything worse, and cause drama (neither of you needed to come in here and post, but you just felt like you just *had* to because you didn't like what I wrote and so, instead of considering that what I wrote just was some emotional hyperbole and dismissing it as such, you had to come in and cause loads of drama.)
Really? You're accusing us of "tone policing" because you're making up arguments to try and lump everyone who disagrees with you in one category (tantruming mythic raiders)? If you actually look, the complaints against the hunter changes range from highly ranked mythic raiders to those who only play a few times a month and just enjoy doing dungeons. You don't have to search farther than these here forums. You say the complainers are overreacting and acting like children over minor changes. Guess what? You're tone policing!
jensketch wrote:BM is fun, it's in a decent spot. Yes, it's changed and drastically so - but it's not difficult to sit back and adjust. It just isn't. Blizzard isn't asking us to buy a whole new game or start all over. They pruned some buttons to press. That's really all they did.
Isn't it wonderful that people can have drastically different opinions on something? What's just "some buttons" to you is a heap of lost complexity and variety to others. What's "not difficult to adjust to" for you can make or break the class for other people: whether that's a gun artifact, removed abilities, an extra uncontrollable pet, becoming melee, etc. You can't expect millions of hunter players just to "get over it" because you happen to be perfectly ok with Blizzard's direction.

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Re: Two Active Pets for BM in Legion?

Unread post by Sukurachi » Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:11 pm

I have to say that I also found the tone of, and the choice of characterization used in, Jensketch's post to be offensive and belittling.

While that sort of thing may be part and parcel of the official Blizzard forums, or of any other WoW forum, it is not part of this one.

Jensketch: say that you actually enjoy the changes, that it brings variety to your gameplay or whatever reason you have for enjoying it. But refrain from "evaluating" other people's reactions, and particularly refrain from using loaded language to describe people you don't even know, and their reasons for not liking the proposed changes.

This may come as a surprise to you, but people who disagree with you are not wrong, nor does it make you right. People simply disagree on things. Why don't you at least try to be polite about it.

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Re: Two Active Pets for BM in Legion?

Unread post by Silivren » Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:04 am

I think everyone needs to take a giant step back and realize that opinions are going to differ. Not to mention this is alpha, and yes, I have seen some people acting like the world is ending because blizzard is still doing tweaks. You can criticize or say you don't like something, but don't go acting like this is all set in stone, because it certainly is not. That is a major point that I think a lot of people are skipping over. *shrugs*

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Re: Two Active Pets for BM in Legion?

Unread post by Shade » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:30 am

Forum Rules 1.Debate is welcome, but please treat everyone here with respect. That means: Disagree with the post, don't attack the poster.
Started to edge towards that line guys, be careful. Likely time to take a step back and take a breather.

Perhaps part of the problem with the viewpoint of only the mythic raider's viewpoint being listened to is that it is alpha at the moment and most of the people invited to the Alpha for testing are hardcore players who have been at the game for a very long time and likely are raiders as well? Correlation, not causation type of thing perhaps?

Anyways found this on MMOChamp the other day:
Hunter (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator / Artifact Calculator / PvP Talent Calculator)
[Feedback] Beastmastery Hunter
Entirely too much focus on Random Beasts, not enough on our actual pets
Since Beast Mastery has been unlocked, this has been the strongest point of feedback, and we've heard you, loud and clear.

Coming soon will be a glyph that makes Dire Beast summon your stabled pets, instead of random area-themed beasts. We're also considering a talent that replaces Dire Beast with a new shot, and are interested in feedback and ideas on that concept.

Thanks! (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
If they are looking into a glyph that allows us to change the dire beasts, perhaps that may be an indication that they are looking at a way for them to allow us to change Hati as well.

Also SpiritBinder, any luck finding that Play Dead manual to see how she reacts when it is used?

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Re: Two Active Pets for BM in Legion?

Unread post by Juxia » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:58 am

Hunter (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator / Artifact Calculator / PvP Talent Calculator)
[Feedback] Beastmastery Hunter
Entirely too much focus on Random Beasts, not enough on our actual pets
Since Beast Mastery has been unlocked, this has been the strongest point of feedback, and we've heard you, loud and clear.

Coming soon will be a glyph that makes Dire Beast summon your stabled pets, instead of random area-themed beasts. We're also considering a talent that replaces Dire Beast with a new shot, and are interested in feedback and ideas on that concept.

Thanks! (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
That's great news, hopefully something similar will be following for Hati.

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Re: Two Active Pets for BM in Legion?

Unread post by Wain » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:06 am

Chill guys. This is geting ridiculous. Your perception of how the class plays out is equally valid regardless of whether it's a good one or a bad one. No baiting characterization of each other as angry children.
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Re: Two Active Pets for BM in Legion?

Unread post by HunterFTW » Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:51 pm

Ok So to give a better image of what I was talking about when I said the guns skins effect hati wolf modle. I know its sloppy cause I used paint (sew me) but I hope it gives a better idea. So the wolf modle would be with the guns skin and then add the colors to the skins will change the wolf's color. This is just an example though.
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