Am i the only one who is disappointed?

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DarthMurdock
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Am i the only one who is disappointed?

Unread post by DarthMurdock » Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:26 am

I play as a BM hunter as my main, but for Legion, i am disappointed that BM's get a gun, instead of a bow, as the artifact weapon. Personally, i think that MM's should get a gun, because they are going to be the hunter class without a pet. Or just give us the option between a gun or a bow.
Ive posted this on the official forums aswell, but it got buried by other posts really quick.

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Re: Am i the only one who is disappointed?

Unread post by Wain » Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:49 am

No, there was a lot of discussion of this in another thread, which I can't find right now. Maybe someone else can link it.

My personal feeling is that the bow/gun theme is more race-related than spec-related and therefore (mostly) forcing a gun on one spec and a bow on the other will go against the race theme of about half of players. I think they should have worked at allowing both specs a choice of the two weapons, but have different traits depending on the spec chosen for it (at the time of commencement, I don't mean to allow hunters to just easily switch specs on it). But I get the impression that they have their minds fixed on a much narrower model and they are determined that what works well for a few classes is going to be forced to work for all. The shaman weapons are equally a bit bizarre. Enhancement gets Doomhammer, even though it's a dual-wield spec, because the designers are absolutely determined that we will have that weapon, no matter how poorly it fits, so now they make it magically spit a second weapon into your off-hand. That doesn't feel forced at all :P Meanwhile Elemental Shaman - the *ranged* spec - are given a fist weapon... the weapon commonly associated with Enhancement and clearly a melee weapon.

I know the system works well for some specs and classes, but the cases I mention just seem forced and strange to me. I so far feel they really have become blinkered and are determined to force it through as it is.
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Re: Am i the only one who is disappointed?

Unread post by Quiv » Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:50 am

When I think Orc warrior, I think axes. When I think Dwarf warrior, I think hammers (maces). However an Orc using a mace or Dwarf using an axe doesn't bother me.

A night elf beastmaster using a gun or dwarf marksman using a bow though? It could be the coolest looking gun/bow model in the world, still would feel very wrong to me. However I've personally resigned to accept it due to...
Wain wrote:I know the system works well for some specs and classes, but the cases I mention just seem forced and strange to me. I so far feel they really have become blinkered and are determined to force it through as it is.
I was thinking about this the other day. Feedback feels practically useless due to how invested they seem to be on it. I just can't seem them scrapping this system.

Edit: I switched the MM and BM in the above sentence. Had them backwards. :oops:
Last edited by Quiv on Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Am i the only one who is disappointed?

Unread post by Makoes » Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:17 pm

That's why I am mogging my gun into a bow...They can make these artifact weapons as pretty as they want or force players specs into a certain weapon, but my Night Elf does not use guns. to be honest, it's not that different from on live...if the Bis weapon for my hunter is a gun...and I need to use this bis gun, I can still mog it like a bow.

in legion they are just giving us our bis weapon's early on.../shrug

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Re: Am i the only one who is disappointed?

Unread post by Slickrock » Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:42 pm

Quiv wrote:A night elf marksman using a gun or dwarf beast master using a bow though? It could be the coolest looking gun/bow model in the world, still would feel very wrong to me. However I've personally resigned to accept it due to...
This.

However, it's clear they want a unique look/looks for each spec. So, do you throw the lore away? or do folks simply mog over it?

Given that we still don't know how to unlock the various looks, many of us might be mogging over the artifacts anyway.
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Re: Am i the only one who is disappointed?

Unread post by Slickrock » Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:45 pm

Makoes wrote:That's why I am mogging my gun into a bow...They can make these artifact weapons as pretty as they want or force players specs into a certain weapon, but my Night Elf does not use guns. to be honest, it's not that different from on live...if the Bis weapon for my hunter is a gun...and I need to use this bis gun, I can still mog it like a bow.

in legion they are just giving us our bis weapon's early on.../shrug
And this. Let's be real.. none of our artifacts have the care and thought that other classes do in the art department. We can all find existing choices that are better than the coming artwork.

And we are probably going to mog over them anyway to fit the look of the rest of our mog set.
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Re: Am i the only one who is disappointed?

Unread post by Nachtwulf » Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:59 pm

I actually like the second gun model (second from the top in that one pic?) a lot... because it's simple. Most WoW guns are great snub nosed clunky-ass things (I admit, I have collected a few just BECAUSE they were just that fugly) but that one slim sniper-rifle type one is really quite nice, I think.

The rest? ....ermmm... not so much. Even the weird gunbow they added feels contrived, although if it has a lightning string, I may be swayed slightly.

Marks and Surv, though, have pretty uniformly badass goodies... though by the same token, it does seem really weird to have an obviously belfy (or at least generically elven) bow in the hands of...say... an orc. Or a Forsaken. Or a dwarf. Most of the others don't have such an obvious racial bias.

on the upside at least we don't ALL HAVE ASHBRINGER OMFG.

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Re: Am i the only one who is disappointed?

Unread post by Xota » Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:05 pm

Makoes wrote:That's why I am mogging my gun into a bow...They can make these artifact weapons as pretty as they want or force players specs into a certain weapon, but my Night Elf does not use guns. to be honest, it's not that different from on live...if the Bis weapon for my hunter is a gun...and I need to use this bis gun, I can still mog it like a bow.

in legion they are just giving us our bis weapon's early on.../shrug
I do think it's different from live. On live, you don't go a whole expansion without new artwork for your chosen weapon type. Even if you xmog a bow over a new gun, you have new bow artwork to choose from. And the weapon artwork is supposed to be one of the main reward systems in Legion. And Wain's example of shaman highlights an even bigger problem that a few other specs will have. Elemental shaman get fist weapons. Only fist weapons xmog onto fist weapons. Not daggers, not hammers, definitely not a staff.

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Re: Am i the only one who is disappointed?

Unread post by Slickrock » Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:58 pm

Xota wrote:
Makoes wrote:That's why I am mogging my gun into a bow...They can make these artifact weapons as pretty as they want or force players specs into a certain weapon, but my Night Elf does not use guns. to be honest, it's not that different from on live...if the Bis weapon for my hunter is a gun...and I need to use this bis gun, I can still mog it like a bow.

in legion they are just giving us our bis weapon's early on.../shrug
I do think it's different from live. On live, you don't go a whole expansion without new artwork for your chosen weapon type. Even if you xmog a bow over a new gun, you have new bow artwork to choose from. And the weapon artwork is supposed to be one of the main reward systems in Legion. And Wain's example of shaman highlights an even bigger problem that a few other specs will have. Elemental shaman get fist weapons. Only fist weapons xmog onto fist weapons. Not daggers, not hammers, definitely not a staff.
Yeah.. fist weapons make no sense for ele really..

I do wonder how long it will take to unlock all the looks.. at least one is gonna get locked behind honor/prestige grind.
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Re: Am i the only one who is disappointed?

Unread post by Shade » Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:28 pm

My first thought whenever I hear the term 'marksman' has always been a sniper-in and out of WoW. And to me snipers use guns-so yeah I don't get the entire BM=gun, MM=bow thing-it feels really just weird to me.

I play BM hunter and have only ever switched to MM back in WOTLK when the guild I was raiding with at the time required me to be MM or get kicked. I'm pretty dedicated to playing as a BM-going around and tracking down the pets that I want to tame is one of my favorite things to do in WoW. I play alongside my best friend and we do not level or quest without each other-so one does not get ahead of the other. However I am able to log into WoW more often than she is, so my options are to raid with random pugs or find other things to kill my time in WoW-going after rare tames is a fun time killer when I don't want to do something else and get ahead of her.

I really, really hate the gun models in WoW as well as the gun noises. I have guns for transmog on my hunter-but it is pretty rare for me to actually use them. I am pretty disappointed in the BM gun so far and will likely be transmogging over it.

But the thing that makes me the most upset is the use of an outdated 8 year old model as Hati, the summon that comes with our weapon. Considering all the art and care that has gone into things-like the AMAZING druid forms?-getting stuck with that old, ugly, anatomically broken model feels like a slap in the face.

Happily the lull between this expansion and the next, and the lull between this expansion and the last, has allowed me to max level a number of toons. I'm pretty close to having a max level character of each class now-started my warrior just now, have my lock over 90 and my paladin almost to 70. Should have them all maxed out by the time Legion hits-so I'll have plenty to choose from if the things about BM that I dislike goes live.

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Re: Am i the only one who is disappointed?

Unread post by Quiv » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:55 am

Slickrock wrote:And this. Let's be real.. none of our artifacts have the care and thought that other classes do in the art department. We can all find existing choices that are better than the coming artwork.

And we are probably going to mog over them anyway to fit the look of the rest of our mog set.
I hope they have data to show how many artifacts are indeed mogged over. Granted those who don't like a look but can't be arsed to mog over it may skew the data, but I still think it could be a real indicator to the success or failure of the artifact system.

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Re: Am i the only one who is disappointed?

Unread post by Slickrock » Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:26 pm

Quiv wrote:
Slickrock wrote:And this. Let's be real.. none of our artifacts have the care and thought that other classes do in the art department. We can all find existing choices that are better than the coming artwork.

And we are probably going to mog over them anyway to fit the look of the rest of our mog set.
I hope they have data to show how many artifacts are indeed mogged over. Granted those who don't like a look but can't be arsed to mog over it may skew the data, but I still think it could be a real indicator to the success or failure of the artifact system.
The real data will probably come in as how many bother to grind out all the appearances, or specific ones.
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Re: Am i the only one who is disappointed?

Unread post by f1nr » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:31 pm

I am literally furious about this. I've mained a Night Elf Hunter since TBC, always using BM as long as it was viable and switching to the flavor of the month spec for raiding. The artifact bows look absolutely stunning, and now apparently they come with a quiver = WANT.

As it was already said, it's mostly about race combos rather than specs. The problem is most races feel better with a bow (humans, nelfs, draenei, orcs, trolls, tauren, forsaken) rather than a gun (dwarfs... that's it). I would actually consider levelling a dwarf hunter for Legion but then again they don't really fit with most Spirit Beasts for me... It's a nightmare.

And the worst thing is they are actually aplifying it with the models. I mean the bows clearly look elven.

I really, really hope they will give us a way to snap at least 1 look from MM.

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Re: Am i the only one who is disappointed?

Unread post by Rhapture » Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:21 pm

f1nr wrote:I am literally furious about this. I've mained a Night Elf Hunter since TBC, always using BM as long as it was viable and switching to the flavor of the month spec for raiding. The artifact bows look absolutely stunning, and now apparently they come with a quiver = WANT.

As it was already said, it's mostly about race combos rather than specs. The problem is most races feel better with a bow (humans, nelfs, draenei, orcs, trolls, tauren, forsaken) rather than a gun (dwarfs... that's it). I would actually consider levelling a dwarf hunter for Legion but then again they don't really fit with most Spirit Beasts for me... It's a nightmare.

And the worst thing is they are actually aplifying it with the models. I mean the bows clearly look elven.

I really, really hope they will give us a way to snap at least 1 look from MM.
As jealous as I am about not getting the quiver, I am more concerned that we might get stuck with an ammo belt. If that is the case, I really REALLY hope we can turn the visual off somehow.

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Re: Am i the only one who is disappointed?

Unread post by Xota » Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:37 pm

f1nr wrote:The problem is most races feel better with a bow (humans, nelfs, draenei, orcs, trolls, tauren, forsaken) rather than a gun (dwarfs... that's it).
Some of those are more subjective than others. Personally, I think humans, worgen, forsaken, tauren, and goblins all work better with rifles. But I agree with the basic point, that "spec fantasy" tied to a weapon is a lot weaker than "race fantasy" or "character fantasy".

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Re: Am i the only one who is disappointed?

Unread post by Albain » Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:13 pm

The skins bother me. It feels half-finished at best, as does Hatii's 8 year old ugly Northrend Worg appearance. Every patch to the alpha we see them roll out new gorgeous skins for every other spec but us. I admit I am feeling very, very neglected as a BM hunter right now. I am hoping this will change.

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Re: Am i the only one who is disappointed?

Unread post by Nachtwulf » Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:41 pm

There's several new worgs in the most recent update that use an undamaged (well, it's got some scars on it) version of that nice new boss worg.

Hopefully they'll swap Hati out soon. REMEMBER. ALPHA IS -ALPHA-. Also tell them about it yourself. Every day if you have to.

I whined about 'every male draenei skin has purple hooves even if they're green' for like six years and they finally listened!

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Re: Am i the only one who is disappointed?

Unread post by Drayk » Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:46 pm

I keep trying to keep an open mind but ever since I heard the phrase techno-magic being linked to Beast Mastery all of the hype had been slowly draining.

I hate the idea of using a gun as an elf and this half-assed attempt at placating the people who wanted bows misses the mark completely, I don't want a gun why would I want a bow that looks like a gun?

If it wasn't for the fact that Marks is no completely petless I would switch to it in a heartbeat for hat beautiful bow.

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Re: Am i the only one who is disappointed?

Unread post by Albain » Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:12 am

I am still holding out hope. They're giving us a glyph that lets us summon stabled pets instead of wild dire beasts, which is a step in the right direction. They ARE listening... I just have to hope they're gonna listen to all of it.

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Re: Am i the only one who is disappointed?

Unread post by Telsek » Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:14 pm

Xota wrote:
Makoes wrote:That's why I am mogging my gun into a bow...They can make these artifact weapons as pretty as they want or force players specs into a certain weapon, but my Night Elf does not use guns. to be honest, it's not that different from on live...if the Bis weapon for my hunter is a gun...and I need to use this bis gun, I can still mog it like a bow.

in legion they are just giving us our bis weapon's early on.../shrug
I do think it's different from live. On live, you don't go a whole expansion without new artwork for your chosen weapon type. Even if you xmog a bow over a new gun, you have new bow artwork to choose from. And the weapon artwork is supposed to be one of the main reward systems in Legion. And Wain's example of shaman highlights an even bigger problem that a few other specs will have. Elemental shaman get fist weapons. Only fist weapons xmog onto fist weapons. Not daggers, not hammers, definitely not a staff.
Unfortunately, my NE hunter went all of WoD without finding a transmog for my gun that I liked. I am using an old skin, from BC to change my gun into a bow.
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