Is it time for exotics to retire?

[Maizou]

No, I don't mean remove exotic pets from the game.

I mean remove the idea of beast master only pets.

They're obviously going to be tuning marksman so that the optimal talent will be Lone Wolf, as Blizzard's idea for Marksman is to be petless. The other two talents will be choices, but you'll probably want to be Lone Wolf for 'maximum' damage.

This means we're essentially down to 2 pet specs, which means having about 1/4 of the pet species reserved to 1 of 2 specs seems a bit silly when with the way pets are now, the only thing those pets do are give simple utility buffs.

So, how about, I know it won't happen in legion, why not do something new?

Remove the exotic limitation on pets, and allow all hunters to tame all the different species of pets, but give Beast Mastery a new ability to replace exotic pets, Exotic Abilities? "Infuse your pet with an exotic ability, granting it an ability of your choosing. Replacing this ability must be done while you are rested." (in Town or under effect of the inscription tome)

So you can call on the power of nature to call on the bond between your pet to slow your fall speed, walk on water, etc. Thoughts?

[Helsinki]

I would love for this to happen.

[Xota]

No. For me, the feel for survival is that the pet is more like a beast-brother. For BM, the hunter is the tamer/trainer, and their skill in those things allows them to 'whisper' more fantastic or fearsome beasts. For MM, they're like rangers, and a pet is like an optional utility for them.

I get where you're coming from, but it would dilute BM's niche.

[Wain]

This is exactly what I've long wanted! But given that they have given no sign of adding anything useful to BM, as they frantically struggle to get classes stable for the pre-Legion patch in only a few weeks now, I can't imagine them reworking BM powers to cover every pet family. I'd dearly love to be proven wrong though.

[Quiv]

I would love a reworking of the exotic system. To me, its an outdated concept that is serving less and less purpose with each xpac. I think it should be back to the drawing board with it, and this would have been a perfect xpac to do it with their focus on class fantasy and all.

[Lisaara]

I don't want it removed, but it does need to be tweaked. I don't, personally, want SV or MM to have Loque or any spirit beast because it doesn't seem like something they'd have the ability and knowledge to tame such a beast. Part of why I chose BM, to be able to tame exotics. If you take it away, BM has nothing.

[Rhyela]

The exotic pets used to mean something, but as time goes on we've been given more and more normal pets with very exotic appearances. And with even the buffs going away, it just seems to me that an animal being exotic doesn't really mean anything anymore. I would LOVE for them to remove that restriction, and give BM hunters something more meaningful instead, like more control over their pets, or unlocking more of their pets' potential. However you want to call it. Exotics used to be special back in the day, but I think that time has long passed.

[Xella]

In Mists and Warlords I felt obligated to use an exotic pet while I was BM just because they brought so much more to the table. Two stat buffs (in most cases) and utility? Why would you ever use a non-exotic as BM? The only times I ever used the pet I wanted to use was in raids, where all the stat buffs were covered and the utility was mostly covered anyway (save a few times where I had to hard swap to a core hound for heroism cos our mages were dead and we had no shaman at the time) or was hard to consistently use (pet battle res on non-melee is a nightmare since your pet won't run to a corpse to get in range and the range is so short). You could argue that questing out in the world you'd be able to use whatever pet you wanted also, because you don't have to push your DPS so hard when it's just you. I feel that way about a lot of things but oddly, not about my main. The only time I can think of that you'd want a non-exotic over an exotic would be PvP cos spider's slow or root or whatever it was was better than crocolisks and warpstalkers and silithid.

I feel like the same is going to be true in Legion, possibly even more so if pets don't get a "clean-up" pass prior to launch (and I have to imagine it's a VERY low priority right now, since it mostly doesn't matter except if one of the new families is still missing a basic attack). You'll have your choices expanded slightly because the stat buffs are gone so if you don't like how bulky and brick-like all the core hounds are, you can take a nether ray for heroism and not lose out on anything, but you're gonna want to have one or the other in one of your five active pet slots if you're doing 5-mans or harder outdoor content where the personal dps gain would be worthwhile or whatever. And if you're in a position where you might have to/want to switch specs on the fly (like in a raid), you're not gonna have access to the core hound, so either you gotta bring both, or you ONLY bring the nether ray and save your other slots for other pets.

With Stampede's redesign (BOO! HISS!) it's also mostly a non-issue now, but I never liked having exotic pets in my active roster when I wasn't BM and casting stampede and ending up with duplicate pets because one of my non-exotics had to fill in for the pet I couldn't actually summon. I mean, I still did it—for a while I was running a shale spider and then I swapped to a spirit beast in that slot, and even though I haven't been BM in a month or more I'm pretty sure Tadassana is still in slot 3—but it always bothered me a little.

I don't think exotics have a reason to exist anymore. With the addition of non-exotics with (most of) the utility of the exotics and the removal of the stat buffs (which most exotics doubled up on to make them better/exotic), the difference between exotic and non-exotic is purely cosmetic (except for water striders and rylaks and spirit beasts, since water walking/slow fall/the heal isn't replicated on any non-exotics). And as mentioned, even that's kind of flimsy—Gara's a spirit beast but the felfire wolf is an actual wolf. Mechanicals aren't exotic and by all logic they should have been, since they're more Out There than any existing family. Rylaks don't look exotic. Chimaera don't look exotic. Water Striders don't look exotic (though you could make an argument for the Outland ones). Some Spirit Beasts do, but not all and some non-exotics look like spirit beasts. Quilen don't look any more exotic than the stone cats except that the whole family is stone instead of just part. Devilsaurs are exotic but the triceratopses and raptors aren't. And so on.

I dunno. I feel like BM should have pet-based abilities that aren't tied to their pets—a shared cooldown utility ability, where you can choose whether to use heroism or combat res or a heal and using one puts them both on cooldown like potions. You could only use them when you had a pet out, but what pet you had out wouldn't affect what abilities you could use. I'd rather it be in the hunter's spellbook than the pet's because pet abilities have this nasty habit of not resetting on a wipe sometimes, but if you want them in the pet's instead to make it easier, that's fine too. Give BM something to make their pets stronger, but ditch the idea of "exotic" pets. So what if everybody runs around with Gara or Loque out? They do that anyway (Loque especially, Gara mostly just toward the start of the expansion the way the porcupines were all over when they were added and fell out of vogue later), and then people like me don't feel obligated to run a pet they don't love as much just because it's "stronger" in some arbitrary way.

[Xota]

Seeing as pet abilities don't look like they've been worked on yet, I think it's too soon to assume they won't be distributed in a manner so that exotic pets will be the only practical option for BM. Some abilities are better for groups, some are better for pet tanking, and some are better for pvp.

For example, using pets that still have abilities, Quillen have a group ability (battle rez) and a solo ability (stone armor). If you're soloing, you won't use the battle rez, so the Quillen effectively has one talent when you're soloing. You could use a turtle or fox or anything else that has a tank ability, you wouldn't feel cornered into using the Quillen. And if you're in a 5 man or raid, your pet's tanking ability doesn't mean a whole lot, so you could choose to take a Crane or anything else with the battle rez, instead of the Quillen, if that's what you wanted. Exotic pets don't have to feel mandatory. Just make sure there's some actual stable masters on the continent, and you don't have to swiss-army knife your five pets.

I wouldn't like it if all pets were functionally identical. Especially for a spec that's been hit with a big "over-simplification/dumb-down" stick.

As far as everyone having Gara, I can't speak for anyone else, but I have it for two reasons: because it doesn't have that disgusting eyes-through-butt transparency method; I like to have at least some pets from the current expansion in my common usage. Have more opaque pets with a heal, and I expect there will be fewer people using the exact same model.

[Shade]

I don't run into other hunters who have my pets that often-even with Garra-because when I am on my hunter these days, unless I am doing LFR, it is pretty rare for me to get into a group with another hunter-so I don't really care one way or the other with the 'everyone has that exotic pet' argument.

I don't think exotics should be discontinued, personally-it is one of the defining characteristics of what it means to be a Beast Master. They are more in sync with the creatures, able to tame and use those creatures that other hunters cannot. If they did take away exotic only from BM-what would be their defining characteristic then? Having two pets out at once? That doesn't really feel that special or defining with demonology warlock having a lot of demons out, enhancement shaman summoning their duo spirit wolves/raptors.

[Ickabob]

Blizzard has already stripped enough from the spec and class as a whole, all in the name of "class fantasy" and "spec identity". Losing anything more would just be yet another slap in the face.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to say no here.

[Nachtwulf]

I don't necessarily want exotics removed, I just want them to actually mean something. As has previously been stated, except for a couple things, with the buffs removed they're basically just the same as a lot of nonexotics aside from skin, and a lot of the recent families we've gotten have been uninspiring (rylaks?) I mean, sure, the slowfall is really nice in those days before they add flight to an expac, or I guess maybe in a BG (though I don't pvp), but honestly it's not very impressive. But since they've stripped out all the utility from BM (while MM and SV still have quite a bit), if they do anything, they should remove ALL of the special abilities from nonexotics and then distribute them through exotics (which I think is already mostly the case but anyway).

Since MM and SV do not rely on their pets, and also have their own utility to bring to bear, let BM be the one that brings utility through their pets instead, and improve the quality of that utility beyond what it is now. Sure, having huge pet utility on top of player utility is too much, but moving it to one spec only that already lacks utility is a solution to an extant problem. It gives raids a reason to bring BM (rez, heal, hero) instead of just a loldps turret (MM) for example. Right now, MM can basically do all that AND be a turret, which makes them the obvious choice.

[Lupen202]

I stand by what I said in another thread.

I used to like exotics being Beastmastery-only to keep the spec unique. Because it was the defining characteristic; what set them apart. But due to Blizzard literally ripping the spec apart and putting it back together again... that's no longer the case; the specs now feel very different and that has nothing to do with whether they have a spirit beast, devilsaur or corehound by their side. No one aside from hunters even take notice of what pet is brought now with buffs removed. It seems being able to tame & control hoards of beasts is the "class fantasy" and what sets BM apart now, rather than having one unique, special pet beside you. Survival almost fits the bill better now, running into battle side by side with their companion.

At least that's the impression I got.

At this point, with how beast mastery is and with pet buffs being removed, I honestly see no reason why Beast mastery should be the only ones to be able to tame exotics. Them being exclusive is just outdated I feel... And with more and more pet looks being added to exotic families, there are more and more lovely beasts many will never get to enjoy unless they spec BM. And with the sorry state of it currently, the number of BM hunters is even lower than normal.

One thing I could see happening though as a sort of middle ground is decreasing the amount of exotic families. Keep exotics, keep them BM only, but only make Corehounds and Spirit beasts exotic. Maybe quillen and silithids as well. I've just always thought Devilsaurs, chimeras and the rest made more sense as normal beasts... All they have going for them is their size, but Hydras and dire horns are almost as big and aren't exotic.

[Araucaria]

Maybe they could let every spec tame exotics, but, to make them seem more "Beast Masters", give BM some sort of Eyes of the Beast, a cooldown that lets you take complete control of your pet (dealing more damage than it usually does). While you're controlling your pet, your character can repeat a rotation "memorized" a little earlier, like the rogue talent, http://www.wowhead.com/spell=152151/shadow-reflection ((If used out of combat, it could last longer/indefinitely, for fun purposes ))
If they made BM more Beastmaster-ish, I don't think there would be a problem with exotics. They could be tamed by all without breaking class fantasy too much. It might even be the direction Blizz is going, taking into account that there doesn't seem to be any new exotic family coming in Legion, as far as I know.
And once Blizz has time to add pet abilities, special traits unlocked only by Beastmasters and their exotic companions would be a great implementation, as others have said

[Vephriel]

I've always been conflicted on this. They do seem a bit...arbitrary at this point, but at the same time the idea of exotic pets appeals to me and I'm not sure how I'd feel about that being taken away from BM. I really do like that identity. Mrhgm, I'm just not sure.

[Ryna]

If I had my druthers, pets would basically just be skins that you pick abilities for in a talent sort of way and BM would just get an extra tier/point. I think that'd make it easier for future pets to be added and we could cut down all the same-ability-different-name things we have.
Example:
Tier 1 - choice of defensive buffs (shield, pet-only HoT like Rest, temp hp buff for pet)
Tier 2 - choice of offensive buffs (temp damage/haste buff for pet, temp DoT effect like molten hide/poison, enemy debuff like web/slow)
Tier 3 - choice of tactical spells (res, controllable HoT, Bloodlust)
Tier 4 (BM only) - choice of fancy spells (updraft, water walking, tricks)

Obviously it'd be weird to see someone using Updraft with like, a bear, but I think the benefits of using anything you want (and maybe attaching an amusing story about how the bear has an excessive amount of skin/flatulence or a parachute pack) would outweigh the weirdness.

[Wain]

Blizzard has already stripped enough from the spec and class as a whole, all in the name of "class fantasy" and "spec identity". Losing anything more would just be yet another slap in the face.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to say no here.

I respect that, but the system that was posted wasn't a net loss for BM - if it was implemented as described in the OP then BM would be gaining a whole lot of new pet powers, for pets of any family, which means a much greater gain in practical abilities than just those we currently get if we use an exotic pet.

I understand if people want some looks to be BM-only but, like Veph said, that aspect has become more arbitrary over time. The strange things that non-BMs can tame are often just as "exotic" as the true exotics. Some even more so - in Warlords any spec could tame a hydra or hippo, which is about as weird as it gets, but for "exotic" they just gave us a cheat family that should have just been another chimaera model. It remains to be seen if we'll have a new exotic family in Legion at all, but it's looking less likely for release as the weeks go by.

[Rikaku]

Seeing as pet abilities don't look like they've been worked on yet, I think it's too soon to assume they won't be distributed in a manner so that exotic pets will be the only practical option for BM. Some abilities are better for groups, some are better for pet tanking, and some are better for pvp.

For example, using pets that still have abilities, Quillen have a group ability (battle rez) and a solo ability (stone armor). If you're soloing, you won't use the battle rez, so the Quillen effectively has one talent when you're soloing. You could use a turtle or fox or anything else that has a tank ability, you wouldn't feel cornered into using the Quillen. And if you're in a 5 man or raid, your pet's tanking ability doesn't mean a whole lot, so you could choose to take a Crane or anything else with the battle rez, instead of the Quillen, if that's what you wanted. Exotic pets don't have to feel mandatory. Just make sure there's some actual stable masters on the continent, and you don't have to swiss-army knife your five pets.

I wouldn't like it if all pets were functionally identical. Especially for a spec that's been hit with a big "over-simplification/dumb-down" stick.

As far as everyone having Gara, I can't speak for anyone else, but I have it for two reasons: because it doesn't have that disgusting eyes-through-butt transparency method; I like to have at least some pets from the current expansion in my common usage. Have more opaque pets with a heal, and I expect there will be fewer people using the exact same model.

Everything Xota said is exactly how I feel on this subject, so I hope they don't mind me quoting them. Especially that middle bolded part.

Anything else I probably already said in the prior thread we had on this a few months back, so I'm probably just going to leave myself quoting this XD

[SpiritBinder]

Copy...

Paste.

Exotics – Have they lost their Relevance

Also, Don't get me wrong, I really liked the idea of BM having an ability to tame beasts that are otherwise too unruly or wild to master. It really plays nicely into being "I'm a a Master of Beasts". And I get that as being such a wonderful idea, it's hard to let go of too as it felt great to be able to do that. But sadly and however also understandably, the visual representation of what is and isn't exotic has now just been eroded and blurred into oblivion due to "Sharing the Shiny" love among all hunters.

I don't have an answer for this that makes any sense anymore, blizzard has eroded any way to make sense of it. And I find it so frustrating that I've actually given up on giving a _ _ _ _

And I 100% agree that giving BM's the ability to further enhance any pet (via an additional ability or what have you) they tame is an awesome and elegant way to bring that exact feeling of "I'm a Master of Beasts" They can come up with what ever system they want.

Whether is a lazy dulled down version of what MM/SV get when they go "LONE Wolf' on live atm. a "Here, here's a drop down menu, pick what ever you want..#yawn" kind of system. Or maybe a more heartfelt or family considered approach that actually looks at every family and what it may actually be capable of and splitting the bonuses up among large groups of families

Ok and exaple (and a pretty rough one) So Spirit Beasts Spirit mend they aren't removing thus far so lets use that. What beasts among all beasts look like they could be potentially magic enough to heal you

• Spirit Beasts,
  Spore Bats
  Cranes
  Dragonhawks
  Windserpents

and make that the group that gains "Spirit Mend" once tamed by a BM hunter.

Now a group that could use a Shell Shield

• Turtles
  Basilisks
  Beetles
  Shale Spiders
  Worms
  etc. etc.

Now all this is well and good, but also as Junrei has expressed, there are still just some things, that just feel dam exotic. And myself in my BM special snowflake way, think the idea of a MM hunter running around with Loque'nahak kinda makes my head spin and think Nope Nope Nope Nope. #TheWorldOfWarcraftIsFallingApart

But then I also know it's because we have been conditioned to think that by blizzard from the past and so I'm left very lost about the whole thing. I know exotics are not worth their salt anymore, yet i still kind of yearn for them to be, yet know they never will/can be in the way they used to be again.

The whole thing hurts both my head and my heart and all I can do is throw my hands in the air and try walk away...

[Maizou]

To be fair, they could make Spirit Beasts retain BM only, with a book like Dinomancy, which requires being in Beast Mastery spec to learn and require Beast Mastery to take out of stables/use them. (and have anyone who currently has a spirit beast auto-learn the skill)

They are really the only pets that do have a Beast Mastery feel to them.