Aspects cooldowns are too high for it's benefit

[Nachtwulf]

I'll be honest, I'm loving survival. Then again, I mained a fury warrior all through Wrath and SV kinda reminds me of old school fury. That and Carve makes farming old content like 10000x easier than it was before.

But I do have to agree, the cooldown on Cheetah seems egregious. I don't mind that it's -there-... I understand that Blizzard wants to reduce mobility across the board, and that every class has had stuff pruned off to that end. Fine, if that's their vision, no worries. And yeah, Pack was more annoying than it was useful. But the cooldown on Cheetah is -awful-, for as short as it is. The only reason why it might be considered better than sprint is that the first half a second or so of it is REALLY HELLA FAST and then you slow down, which makes it more powerful when it comes to getting away from something and out of melee range, but that doesn't make up for the wait time. Its CD should be half of what it is now. I mean, I still use it, but urgh, it takes so long to come off CD.

[zedxrgal]

Not much more I can say then what's already been said. SB has the 100% exact thoughts /feelings I do. FFS it is SO FRUSTRATING and anger making to do a PuG /Raid wipe and have to run ALL THE WAY BACK VERY SLOWLY to the boss because he's in tim-fucking-too of the raid. And on a gnome legs!!
RIP aspect of the Cheetah
Just like everything else Blizzard has ruined.

My dwarf disc priest? No longer has fear ward. She's had fear ward since BC. I barely even recognize the kit anymore.

This for me too. I've a gnome named Compactdisc. Who now cannot run disc anymore because it's so freaking foreign. The wow spec languages I've known since 04 have been wiped out and I now have to learn several new languages ALL OVER AGAIN. In less than a month. Sucks ass too cause my disc priest was one of my favorites. If I wasn't on a hunter I was on her or my lock. Now. Nope. BM hunters? Bye bye. Disc priest? Bye bye.

But I digress. They fucked up the aspects bad. Again I get their wanting a revamp /change. Fine. But to completely ruin it to where it's useless is really unacceptable. I cannot justify spending money per month on this game to play one class.

[Sukurachi]

All these changes, and so many to other classes, are really really sad and frustrating.

there are now two members of my small guild who are very much upset about the changes to their classes and considering just dropping the game completely. For them, the fun has been removed.

I'd consider it if I had another option to go to, sadly, I don't. WoW is my lifeline to some sort of social life (I live in the middle of the forest, in nowhere land).

[Nachtwulf]

Give survival a chance. I was a little dubious at first but aside from fighting every muscle memory telling me to get out of melee range what are you doing, it's a hoot.

[Sukurachi]

Give survival a chance. I was a little dubious at first but aside from fighting every muscle memory telling me to get out of melee range what are you doing, it's a hoot.

I've been trying S. Hunter, but honestly, it simply doesn't feel like a hunter. it just feels like a melée class. Your pet just happens to be there, you barely have any real interaction with it. I've found it actually plays a lot like my DK.

[Quiv]

I've been trying S. Hunter, but honestly, it simply doesn't feel like a hunter. it just feels like a melée class. Your pet just happens to be there, you barely have any real interaction with it. I've found it actually plays a lot like my DK.

I have the same feeling. I really enjoy Survival, but I just don't feel like a hunter, I don't feel the hunter fantasy behind it. Its like they tried to force it to fit the "Nature Survivalist" but it just didn't quite make it. Speaking of forcing, the pet feels really forced to me, like they had to put it there.

If the idea of the Survival rotation and kit was added to a class that wasn't forced into a pet, then I feel it could have really blossomed. I'll always wish they modeled the melee hunter as a Beast Master like Rexxar, but c'est la vie.

[Kalliope]

I actually really like flanking strike because it works directly with your pet. Whichever of you isn't tanking gets a boost, which feels like real teamwork to me.

The problem is that it's not obvious visually that this is what's happening.

[Shade]

I've not tried survival yet. My main toon is a BM hunter-she's been a BM hunter ever since I joined WoW. My first guild forced me to raid as a MM-but I would always go back and switch to BM when I was out of the raid. I have a secondary hunter on the Horde side, she might go survival eventually....

On Aspect of the Cheetah-I really do not understand the change there still. I get why Pack was removed and am thankful for it. Some jerk hunter leaves it on while I am in a raid and then the raid group's solution is to kick the hunters until pack goes away. I really hate getting kicked from a group because of some idiot trolling us.

But cheetah does not make any sense to me. It is too short and the cooldown is too long.

Shaman kept Ghost Wolf Form. Druid's Cat form has a longer sprint, and the travel form is still there. Mages have Blink with a really quick CD, Monk's have Roll and the Tier 2 Talents. Demon Hunters have Double Jump and Glide (I've not played one yet so I don't know how quick those abilities are). I could keep going. It feels like our mobility has been dumped down to the level of a warrior now and that makes no sense. Warriors are heavily armored clunky to move around tanks-hunters should be agile and fast.

Why the heck did they have to mess with Cheetah? I really do not get it at all. (Though I'm more ticked off at the loss of Camouflage than Cheetah)

[Teigan]

I've been too furious to post anything since the patch. I think what SpiritBinder said pretty much sums it up. "We destroyed everything you love, and will give it back to you in tiny shattered pieces! Enjoy!" This is not like other expansion adjustments. This is broken, careless, shoddy, messy...

[Wain]

They will always make mistakes with expansions, and they usually take until the next expansion to rewrite and correct. But usually whatever mistakes they make are just one aspect of many things and usually the expansion is still mostly fun.

But classes are different. They affect almost every aspect of game play and if you wreck them so badly then you will taint pretty much everything a player does. I really don't think they took it seriously enough, how much damage they were risking, and how much damage I believe they've done. I have stopped logging in except for data gathering for these sites and I could well still unsub for the first time ever. And it's not some kind of futile protest, I just find I don't want to play my characters any more. I'd rather watch tv. This is usually how people feel in the last months of an expansion, not when it's just starting. No matter how good the area design is for the Broken Isles I just have no desire to play my characters now.

[Quiv]

I've had my woes with the changes of this expansion, but it hasn't got me to the point you guys are talking about. I really hate it left such a bad taste in your mouth.

[Sukurachi]

I was at least enjoying doing all my garrison stuff on all my alts (oodles and oodles of alts).
However, with the monster-nerf that hit garrisons with the pre-patch, even that amusement is gone.

It was another silly decision on the designers' part: nerf gold from garrisons with the new expansion. I'd normally be fine with it, actually. Except the new expansion hasn't come out and won't for over a month yet.

[Teigan]

I really don't think they took it seriously enough, how much damage they were risking, and how much damage I believe they've done.

I agree that they did not take this seriously. The changes are horrible, but what makes them worse is the blatant thoughtlessness behind them. They've been careless to the point I actually feel insulted. Did they not think about the players at all? They certainly aren't listening and haven't been. The class changes are so grossly overdone and often nonsensical. Ripping away abilities and talents only to put them on this artifact weapon they've come up with is a horrid idea. What happens at the end of Legion? Does this weapon stay with us forever or do they turn the world upside down again? (or is this really the last expansion?) The elimination of glyphs is...bizarre and pointless. I could try to make excuses for alot of this, but then I think about the fact that pets had abilities removed, but only if they were buffs. Nothing was done to replace what was taken, when something could clearly and fairly easily have been done. Also, oxen and scalehides were "published" without even basic abilities. That speaks to the shoddy workmanship and over all lack of thought behind this broken mess of an expansion. I can't find an excuse for sending an essential part of a class out unfinished. It's as though they left stats off all the weapons. Which wouldn't surprise me right now. WoW has, to me, always been a good quality product. But, it's not anymore.

[Silivren]

I'm sorry that so many people are having a rotten time. :/ I'm enjoying myself a lot for the first time in quite a while and found myself logging into beta every chance I got to check which classes and changes were my favorite. I'm maining a survival hunter now and it's the most fun I've had on a hunter in years. Yeah, some things need tweaking, but I think it'll get better. It always does, class tweaks and the like always come in the patches that follow.

[Valnaaros]

I'm sorry that so many people are having a rotten time. :/ I'm enjoying myself a lot for the first time in quite a while and found myself logging into beta every chance I got to check which classes and changes were my favorite. I'm maining a survival hunter now and it's the most fun I've had on a hunter in years. Yeah, some things need tweaking, but I think it'll get better. It always does, class tweaks and the like always come in the patches that follow.

Likewise. For me, there really isn't a class or spec that I've played that I don't like, and I have many maxed out characters. Even with BM and all its changes, I just learned the new gameplay and moved on.

[Delphinie]

I feel what happened with all this is they where pushing for a yearly release of expansions and this is what happened when they where trying to push for that. Its not because they where careless with the classes its because they where on a real time crunch and where not prepared for the enormity of work that was needed to overhaul all the classes this much and put out a ton of content that would last. They got overwhelmed by the goals they set for this expac and due to how WoD was panning out they just pushed through instead of delaying release so they could actually get every thing done right.

I like and dislike alot of the changes. BM being the spec for hunters I have really always played because from the beginning Surv never had any direction. It felt like it wanted to be what its has become now so its really the only one I'm happy with at the moment for hunters. BM just feels unfinished. Disc priest has been my main healer from when I decided to dip my toe in to healing in wow and now its going to be the hardest to play efficiently now. I like that they wanted to go the dps route but what should probably have happened was they split priest again so they have two heal specs and two dps specs. They have always shied away from having dps having any significant healing capability or healing any significant dps and as long as they keeping thinking that way no class can have a dps/heals spec that's worth anything.

On the point of aspect of the cheetah - most classes have taken a hard hit to mobility this expansion.

All this being said. I have found some classes I will be maining and others that wont get leveled till I have those geared and on end game content, but I will still play for the duration of this expack. What I wont do is pre-order the next one. I am tired of the lets reinvent the wheel cycle they keep doing with classes every expack. I'm really ready for them to stop taking away from every one every expack and not giving anything back. Its becoming less an mmo-rpg and more an mmo action game. That is not what I want. So for me just no more per-purchases and I really want a trial time where I can test it out and see if I want it or not before I buy it.

[WerebearGuy]

I've gotten the hang of the Survival rotation, even remembering to spam the trap and grenade on cooldown and using the attacks at the right time to maintain solid and constant dps. Then, I play Marksman by mashing my face and do 100x more damage.

I just got a beta invite, so I can be a bit judgemental about this; what in the world were testers doing? It's like nobody told Blizz that Survival is horribly undertuned. Survival should be doing a lot more, considering how much needs to be pressed to be effective. Unholy DK uses a similar number of buttons, but in comparison, Unholy does extremely well. One could even argue that Assassination Rogue has a lot of buttons too, and it's nearly top DPS overall. Survival's rotation is large, and has a versatile amount of abilities for both AoE and single target, so why does it sit nearly at the bottom of DPS? Look at the top specs; Demonology, Shadow, and Fire. Demonology has a handful of abilities and does an absurd amount of damage, Shadow has few buttons and an amazingly simple rotation, and Fire has enough buttons that you could press five buttons to be top dps. Even Marksmanship doesn't use a full action bar of buttons, and takes ZERO skill to be effective.

It's depressing. I was looking forward to Survival, but I hate being carried. People want high damage for raids, not high fun. People even asked me to switch to Marksman because they want me to do higher damage. It's sad when people ask you to change specs like that. Survival and BM should be as good as Marksman, no less. We have an awesome lurker who helps us get more fun pets, but we need a lurker who can smack a fool around and fix the DPS problems. I'm a warrior main, and melee is what I'm most comfortable with since I actually need to move constantly, so Survival felt right at home for me. I hate Marksmanship since I can just hang out away from danger and be lazy (outside of mythic raiding, of course).

EDIT: Forgot to mention, I have the right gear for Survival and Marksman. Saved a lot of stuff from before the patch changed stat requirements. Stats aren't an issue for me, thankfully.

[Rikaku]

I've gotten the hang of the Survival rotation, even remembering to spam the trap and grenade on cooldown and using the attacks at the right time to maintain solid and constant dps. Then, I play Marksman by mashing my face and do 100x more damage.

I just got a beta invite, so I can be a bit judgemental about this; what in the world were testers doing? It's like nobody told Blizz that Survival is horribly undertuned.

I just wanted to comment on this, since I am a beta tester as well and I can tell you - Don't blame us XD

Trust me, Blizzard has received tons - TONS - of feedback about the state of Hunters. There's been public blogs reporting issues since Alpha and Beta. There are several long threads in the beta forums talking about key issues about not just Survival, but all 3 specs. There have been many reports handed in by testers during the alpha and beta.

It's more like "What in the world is Blizzard doing? It's like they're not even listening to us."

And I think (sadly) that is just a feeling overall regarding Hunter. Whether people like the changes or not, it feels like Blizzard did not give nearly as much feedback regarding issues as they have in previous expansions. I know Bendak over at Eyes of the Beast has written about it, and other prominent Hunters have discussed it on videos during their live streams. The fact is really, it seems like Blizzard (for whatever reason) seems to think Hunters are in an OK place, despite the feedback, and just don't want to back down off how Hunters are in 7.0 and going forward to Legion launch.

[Valnaaros]

Legion is not the xpac that fell victim to Blizz's original goal of yearly xpacs. That is WoD. Legion, overall, is immensely better than WoD. I have even seen and heard people compare it to Wrath.

Of course it isn't going to be perfect, and people will have an opinion on whether or not a class or spec is bad. Can't please everyone. I have seen several praise Surv and bash MM, and vice versa (though generally the former). And as I said before, every class/spec has an xpac where they are just awful. Demo had it in WoD, amongst other specs. I guess this time around it is BM.

[Rikaku]

Legion is not the xpac that fell victim to Blizz's original goal of yearly xpacs. That is WoD. Legion, overall, is immensely better than WoD. I have even seen and heard people compare it to Wrath.

Of course it isn't going to be perfect, and people will have an opinion on whether or not a class or spec is bad. Can't please everyone. I have seen several praise Surv and bash MM, and vice versa (though generally the former). And as I said before, every class/spec has an xpac where they are just awful. Demo had it in WoD, amongst other specs. I guess this time around it is BM.

I'm not sure I would bother comparing Expansions, purely personally, because I find too many things I like/dislike about each expansion that I can't compare them. For example, I loved Wrath overall as an expansion, but I *hated* playing as BM through it. BM was in a terrible state back then, and it was another case (like WoD) where I had to raid MM/SV or get out. And I hated that. Which was opposite of TBC. I liked the story of BC, but otherwise I didn't care for it, but I remember having a blast on BM back then. Overall, I liked WoD other than BM being in a poor place (comparatively) to other specs and being kind of 'forced' into playing a spec I didn't like (like I had to in Wrath). But what killed WoD for me was the huge lack of content between 6.0 and 6.2. While 6.1 was between that, 6.1 was so small and felt 'lacking', that by the time 6.2 finally rolled out, it was a bit 'too little too late' to hold my interest XD

Legion, I do like Legion. I don't think Legion is a victim of "yearly expansion goals". But Legion is clearly a victim of "bit off more than I could chew." To me it seems (or at least feels), like Blizzard had these really lofty goals for classes and specs, and then it kind of came down to 'oh crap, we're going on 14 months with no new content (aka Seige of Orgrimmar 2.0). We need to get this out ASAP.' and the result are these specs that - even when considering we don't have our artifacts yet - feel really gutted.

As someone who is actually enjoying BM far more than the other specs currently on live, I feel that all specs are just...vastly different than what Hunter has previously always 'felt' like. I feel its the Hunter class itself that is suffering. If it were just BM or just SV or just MM, then I would say "yeah this is just a crappy expansion for us, dangit". But I'm not getting that vibe this time. I feel like the entire Hunter class has been gutted. Traps, Aspects, Adaptation, Kill Shot, heavy focus on wild/dire beasts... I feel like the major changes and adjustments to these things didn't just change one spec, it changed the identity of a "hunter" for many people regardless of spec.

I liked Survival, I played with it a lot in beta and during this last week; but the more I played it, the more I didn't like it. I felt like "well if I wanted to play warrior, I'd roll a warrior" (or an ehancement shaman since my alt is now literally just warrior-with-elements). XD Which is totally opposite of some. But totally opposite too, I've been rocking dps as BM far higher than either MM or SV on live. So to me, I can't say BM feels the worst, cause to me right now, it feels like SV have it the worst if we're talking purely specs. XD Otherwise I feel like the whole class is just hurting at the moment.

I guess for me it's not a problem of when the expansion came out, or what expansion did the deed. I guess overall I'm just sitting here going: "If the whole theme this year was 'class fantasy' and making specs 'different from each other', then why the overhaul to MM and BM? I get why SV was changed, but 6.2 BM, 6.2 MM, and 7.0 SV would've fit the bill of class fantasy and different from each other. Why the overhaul to BM and MM? Why couldn't one of the specs feel like a Hunter from pre-7.0?"

edit:
Even though I was quoting, I didn't like how one of my paragraphs read. Sorry XD It's just really hard to describe how even though I'm enjoying myself right now and having fun on BM, that it's not the same level of enjoyment and fun that I had previously. Though I am looking forward to Legion. BM felt a lot better (to me) in the beta with the artifact than it does without it. (And of course all the other content, but I digress lol)