Aspects cooldowns are too high for it's benefit

[Kysera]

They will always make mistakes with expansions, and they usually take until the next expansion to rewrite and correct. But usually whatever mistakes they make are just one aspect of many things and usually the expansion is still mostly fun.

But classes are different. They affect almost every aspect of game play and if you wreck them so badly then you will taint pretty much everything a player does. I really don't think they took it seriously enough, how much damage they were risking, and how much damage I believe they've done. I have stopped logging in except for data gathering for these sites and I could well still unsub for the first time ever. And it's not some kind of futile protest, I just find I don't want to play my characters any more. I'd rather watch tv. This is usually how people feel in the last months of an expansion, not when it's just starting. No matter how good the area design is for the Broken Isles I just have no desire to play my characters now.

I actually just unsubbed last night after running mogu'shan vaults for a shot at the Elegon mount for the first time since pre-patch hit. I felt so weak (Not to mention slow) compared to just a week ago, that it really just killed my excitement for the expansion. Husband felt the exact same way. We used to be raiders, back in BC and Wrath but what we do now for fun is run stuff for mounts, pets, transmog, etc. Being immediately, noticeably worse at our chosen form of fun just kind of blows.

Like you said - I simply don't have the desire to play my hunter any more. I fiddled around with Marksman and Survival for awhile to see if it helped, but BM's always been my favorite. I do have many alts, but if my hunter's not fun then it's not the game for me right now. It's not really a matter of learning the new gameplay - the gameplay is pretty simple and straightforward. It's just a matter of it not being enjoyable for me, personally.

It really sucks, because pretty much everything else about the expansion sounded awesome and I was really looking forward to it. But when your favorite class just doesn't feel fun any more it kind of ruins it. I'll check it out later on, I'm sure, but for now I'm just not feeling it.

[Teigan]

So, Skettis. You know how doing the bonus objective you free the Arakkoa and all? Well, I used to round up a bunch of mobs and kill them all near the exit so I got the captives' morale high and it was over and done pretty quick. I was back in there last night on the Harrison Jones quest and thought nothing of running into a pack of three. Well, I barely, just barely made it out alive. My tenacity pet barely stayed alive. Just three mobs, when before the patch I was gathering up twice that and killing them with ease. I don't know if I can do this. I have only felt that kind of helpless desperation when playing a clothie. I usually give up on clothies after a fairly short while because they're just too frustrating. This doesn't bode well.

[Carnacki]

I'm still AOE'ing packs in Tanaan just fine. What I mean by this is that I haven't noticed an appreciable loss of time in killing packs of mobs from what I had pre-patch. BM's packing a lot of AoE now, it just takes a few more buttons to properly utilize. I did die a few times figuring this out, but it wasn't a huge loss in time spent.

Edited for clarification.

[Quiv]

I keep trying to remind myself that the pre-patch does not have the specs full potential unlocked. The artifact makes a big difference, even if it will be months down the road before the entire base thing is unlocked. I'd like to think current content is tuned with pre-patch changes in mind, but I know its not. A few things I used to couldn't do I now can, some things I could do with ease nearly kills me. I'm personally holding out until I reach max in Legion and get an idea of how the specs feel and behave in content designed with the class changes in mind. I know I feel better playing beta than I do live, so that gives me hope.

[Carnacki]

Personally I feel like people are jumping the gun too fast. A lot of our current power is in the Artifacts weapons.

[Quiv]

I understand the concerns though. I know the artifact helps and adds to our specs, but we can still get a feel for the heart of the spec now. Without access to beta, I can understand how easy it is to be jaded about everything. I hope those that love their hunter and the game give it until max level in Legion to decide, but asking them buy the game in order to do that is steep. I hate how we are in this position of "trust me, you might like it later" but here we are.

[Carnacki]

Change can be scary too. I know a lot of people loved having BM feel so comfortable. I like the changes, but I can understand how people may not enjoy them.

*I don't like how pets have no abilities and are tied to 1 spec though. Losing Disengage and Cheetah sucks too. I really feel like Cheetah will be buffed from the 3 minute timer though.

[Kysera]

It's nothing to do with being 'afraid of change' for me. I went through the change to focus and such, and all the other changes over the years. It's when the change just doesn't feel fun is the problem. Which, for me, is exactly what has happened this time around. I don't care at all for the idea of having to level through an expansion and gear up just to feel like I'm back up to where I was before.

Like I said, I'm sure I'll check it out later. Time will tell. But for now, I just have no desire to log in.

[Teigan]

I'm still AOE'ing packs in Tanaan just fine.

Well, that's good for you, isn't it. I don't happen to have an AOE other than multishot and the point was that what I was doing with great ease before the patch is stupidly hard now. I wasn't talking about AOE'ing in Tanaan. But hey, I'm glad you're still AOE'ing away in Tanaan, I guess.

I understand the concerns though. I know the artifact helps and adds to our specs, but we can still get a feel for the heart of the spec now. Without access to beta, I can understand how easy it is to be jaded about everything. I hope those that love their hunter and the game give it until max level in Legion to decide, but asking them buy the game in order to do that is steep. I hate how we are in this position of "trust me, you might like it later" but here we are.

I didn't get beta, so I don't know if the light at the end of the tunnel isn't just a train. I suppose I'll just have to trust people who say that gets better. But the fact that I can't fight my way out of wet paper bag right now is not comforting.

Change can be scary too. I know a lot of people loved having BM feel so comfortable. I like the changes, but I can understand how people may not enjoy them.

*I don't like how pets have no abilities and are tied to 1 spec though. Losing Disengage and Cheetah sucks too. I really feel like Cheetah will be buffed from the 3 minute timer though.

I am not scared of change. I've been around since WotLK, so I've seen alot of change. I've mained a hunter the entire time. Focus came, pets changed, lots of things changed....I took it in stride and the changes were acceptable or even good. But, as the person above said, the change this time is no fun. They've turned the Champions into Peons. The feel of this takes me back to being a child: I've been grounded and sent to my room and I'm gonna have to work my butt off to get back the privileges I used to have.

I'm too stubborn to give up entirely however.

[Carnacki]

That's the Spirit...beast.

[Valnaaros]

Blizz has stated multiple times that the classes are tuned for 110, not 100 content. And like Carnacki, I haven't had any trouble pulling and surviving large groups of mobs. I think that many, many people are jumping the gun and assuming how the specs are at 100 - the lvl they are not tuned for - is how they'll be at 110. Having played the Beta extensively, I can say that BM does a fine job at damage and surviving. Are they the best? No, but they aren't terible like some say they are.

[Carnacki]

BM's AoE with MS>Beast Cleave>Stomp is quite nice. Once we get the artifact and the abilities from it, BM AoE is going to be stellar.

[Valnaaros]

BM's AoE with MS>Beast Cleave>Stomp is quite nice. Once we get the artifact and the abilities from it, BM AoE is going to be stellar.

Precisely. As I have said, I haven't had any issues.

[Teigan]

(Nuthin to see here..)

[sasrei7]

I think 3 min cd for Cheetah is way too long, the most i'd say is 2mins. I'm sorry but I agree, artifact is so awesome as they make it sound when essentially all it is, is just giving back stuff we had prior.. that we will be missing for months. I hate being so squishy.. I mean seriously squishy.. ive almost died a few times at Dragon soul >.< my pet dies pretty fast while tanking while I had a pally tank heal and tank an entire dungeon lol.. spirit bond wasn't epic but I miss it, alot.. it just feels very unfinished.

[Sukurachi]

the main problem with "tuned for 110" is that NOT EVERYONE IS 110!!!
There are people who will be going through Draenor still who will have to put up with the crappy changes that Blizz made to classes.

[Valnaaros]

That is how it is in every xpac. They have to tune it for the endgame - the current raid tier and pvp season - not old content. Not Draenor. Generally, once you're at the max lvl you're able to handle old content much easier.

[Teigan]

That is how it is in every xpac. They have to tune it for the endgame - the current raid tier and pvp season - not old content. Not Draenor. Generally, once you're at the max lvl you're able to handle old content much easier.

Ok, yes, every expansion means the lowbies have changes just like everyone else. Now, I know you and Carniki are not having trouble, but alot of people are. I'm seeing longtime Petopians talking about quitting or giving up hunters. This is alarming! And cannot possibly be without cause. With how things stand now, people leveling up with these changes will experience a much more frustrating game all the way up to lvl 110. As pointed out, not everyone is 110. Everyone is currently lvl 100. Even after Legion drops, those of us with alts will have alot to deal with. With other expansions (that maybe you didn't experience, or if you don't have alts), the changes made were quite amenable to low level characters as they made their way to max level. Not everyone can boost, either, so that is not a solution. Yes indeed they tune things to max level end game. BUT they also managed a balance for everyone else and the game stayed fun. I'm not seeing that here. On very low level characters, the change is not noticeable, but the higher you get, the worse, until you come to Draenor. Or am I wrong?

Also, just because certain people played beta and liked it doesn't mean everyone had access to beta. Nor does it mean everyone with access enjoyed it.

[Quiv]

Changes this drastic to classes kinda makes me interested in how the leveling experience is with them from 1. Not that I'm going to do that

[Teigan]

Changes this drastic to classes kinda makes me interested in how the leveling experience is with them from 1. Not that I'm going to do that

Well, I'm going to find out. Eventually. I have a goblin hunter ready to go....we shall see, we shall see. I have some other very low lowbies, but I don't know their classes well enough to know the difference. But I know huntering pretty well.