My house might be haunted... No promises...

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Nachtwulf
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Re: My house might be haunted... No promises...

Unread post by Nachtwulf » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:26 pm

Just remember that a basic tenet of science is the first law of thermodynamics: Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it can only change state.

It's my theory that most dead consciousnesses simply fade back into the background EMF of the planet. The ones that are 'ready to go' as it were. The consciousness that is more well defined... 'rigid' if you will... remain like icebergs in the sea, until they finally 'melt' or else are intentionally interfered with. Some fragments of consciousness remain very small; this is your 'residual' haunt that creates the same effect over and over again and cannot interact with outside influence. Others retain enough of themselves to react with intelligence. Even so, these are always fragments of a psyche and not the whole person... usually whatever bits were strongest. It's the moment-before-death of a crash victim that hasn't realized their body is gone, the abusive husband that torments females in the house by poking them or pulling their hair. They are units of a personality, but never the whole thing.

This is why ghosts sometimes seem 'obsessed' with some task... vengeance, visiting still-living family members, and so forth. The purpose to complete a task is the 'glue' that holds the psyche fragments together against dissolution, and why resolving the obsession "allows the spirit to move on"... you have dissolved the 'glue' keeping the fragment intact.

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Rottingham
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Re: My house might be haunted... No promises...

Unread post by Rottingham » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:57 am

No real activity since the last except for a few bumps around the house...

However yesterday we got news from the hospital that my grandma's lungs are so scarred up that she won't make it. She has been given only a few days approximately. Last night I couldn't sleep. I started crying at the thought of losing her but I heard a voice that sounded a lot like my grandpa say "Hey," at least it sounded a lot like my grandpa. But it was good enough for me. I know she's on her way to meet him in Heaven or whatever after afterlife there is. I know she said she's ready to see him, he's ready to see her, and I'm preparing myself for their reunion

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Re: My house might be haunted... No promises...

Unread post by Turgus » Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:11 pm

Ok, I better chime in here and clear some stuff up as I feel a misuse of scientific jargon to explain “supernatural” occurrences has taken place.

Please do not take this as me being insensitive.

First off, that is not the Second Law of Thermodynamics.
It is: “Heat flows spontaneously from a substance of higher temperature and does not flow spontaneously in the reverse direction.”(Physics, Cutnell & Johnson 2005)

The laws of thermodynamics are used to explain and predict, in the most simple of terms observed physical patterns. A pattern being what is demonstrable, testable, repeatable and predictable results.

You are referring to the Law of Conservation of Energy which is: “Energy cannot be created nor destroyed, but can only be converted from one form to another.” (Physics, Cutnell & Johnson 2005)
Example: chemical to electrical, chemical to kinetic, kinetic to thermal, etc

And to some degree you have a point, but not in the way that you think.

Thermal energy is a part of the electromagnetic spectrum, so when someone dies they become at equilibrium with their surroundings which technically includes the universe. So in this way I guess you can say they are a part of the universe.
However, I believe that in your post you are referring to consciousness as some other sort of “organized energy system” that is independent of the body.

Not true at all. All the scientifically sound data out there that I have seen, regardless of how hard the scientist is looking for it, has not found any evidence for a soul (consciousness independent of a brain.) All the evidence which is quite substantial (hundreds of years of research), points to the fact that is that consciousness is a product of the brain and from what I have read there has never been someone who was “brain dead” that has “come back to life.” This is because the brain is dependent on numerous chemical reactions to create these electrical impulses and it is not an electrical storm inside of a person’s head.

Out of body experiences have also been shown to be a product of misfiring in the brain and can be induced with the proper equipment (quite interesting really). Also, from what I understand in each operating room around the US at least there is a device in a high up isolated place (on a cabinet out of eyesight perhaps) with a number readout.
Not a single patient who has claimed to have had an out of body experience in the operating rooms has seen where the device was nor been able to tell anyone what the number displayed on it was.
This reinforces the hypothesis that it was not-in-fact a real out of body experience but was instead a perception of one.

Let us not forget that there is also is no scientifically significant evidence for ghosts or there would be an entire field of study regarding it. Real scientific and vigorous investigations of “haunted” places have found nothing unexplainable by the nature and properties of the structure itself.
(Door slams shut; they investigate and find that when the draft is strong enough it pushed the door closed, etc)

This is why ghost investigations are now just a form of television entertainment.
These shows both use antiquated equipment to get the “interference” which they use as “evidence” which more modern equipment which is much more sensitive does not pick up.
Not to mention these same TV shows (or at least the ones I have seen) have been shown to setup and hoax ghost encounters.

I find the discussion of ghosts entertaining, but I am sorry, but since “science” was brought up I had to chime in.

Some interesting videos that deal with some examples of what I talk about are below:

Split Brain Patients:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMLzP1VCANo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFJPtVRlI64

Out of Body Experience:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAvkSYjy6Eg

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Rottingham
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Re: My house might be haunted... No promises...

Unread post by Rottingham » Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:21 pm

Well that does bring up some good points, but the fact is that I believe in an afterlife, whether it be Heaven or roaming the earth or such. Although what I read is now having me question it... And I'm a lot more nervous about my grandmother now. She's on her deathbed, and just the thought of not seeing her in an afterlife or having her be reunited with my grandpa... Well I feel like shit now :/

I understand you were saying your point of view, and what you believe and I respect you for it, I'm just wishing it wasn't during this time...

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Re: My house might be haunted... No promises...

Unread post by Snowy » Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:29 pm

Rottingham wrote:Well that does bring up some good points, but the fact is that I believe in an afterlife, whether it be Heaven or roaming the earth or such. Although what I read is now having me question it... And I'm a lot more nervous about my grandmother now. She's on her deathbed, and just the thought of not seeing her in an afterlife or having her be reunited with my grandpa... Well I feel like shit now :/

I understand you were saying your point of view, and what you believe and I respect you for it, I'm just wishing it wasn't during this time...
You believe in whatever you wanna believe in hun. Despite the fact I don't believe in God, I still believe there's some form of afterlife that awaits us. I'm not too sure of what though. Sometimes I want to believe in heaven and hell, but if that was the case, and they did work in the ways the Bible has taught a lot of people to believe in, pretty much 99% of us would be going to hell for *something*. So I kinda perhaps believe in a heaven and hell that doesn't have much to do with the Bible, if anything at all to do with it. I'd love to believe in the idea of reincarnation, but the idea almost seems silly, especially when people say that if you're a 'good' person in life, you'll be reincarnated as something such as another human or something beautiful/respected like a lion or an elk. And then if you're a 'bad' person, you become something that we consider as pathetic, like an ant or a bug of some kind. But that seems silly to me because, well, who's to say that bugs are bad? If bugs were an intelligent being, what if they thought that if you were reincarnated as a human that was considered as 'bad'? Besides, I'm sure that most insects are probably quite happy with their lives.

But honestly, believe in what you want when it comes to the afterlife. And I'm sorry about your grandmother, it sounds like such a terrible time for you, I send my thoughts to your family. :hug:

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Re: My house might be haunted... No promises...

Unread post by Rottingham » Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:46 pm

I believe in God, but I don't so much follow the bible. I was raised Catholic, but I disagree with a few things, like purgatory for instance. Never heard of it until I was 15, and I'm supposed to suddenly believe in it? No thanks... But there are lots of things I disagree with.

But just reading some of the facts have kind of scared me. I have always thought of an Afterlife, and a lot of my atheist and religious friends knew not to discuss it with me because it's a very touchy matter to me. But just reading what was said has me a little spooked and doubting. I'm by no means upset or mad at Turgus, they were stating their beliefs and opinions as I would expect anyone should. It's just gotten me nervous about my grandma now is all...

Anyways I didn't mean to derail my own thread...

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Re: My house might be haunted... No promises...

Unread post by Turgus » Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:06 pm

I noticed I misread the law of thermodynamics he was referring to.
So my bad on that. (was checking the forums on my phone)

And he was right, the 1st law of thermodynamics is the conservation of energy, of which my definition is the complete one.
(Since thermodynamics is the study of energy)

My intentions for posting were completely for clarification of what the conservation of energy is about and its applications to the human body.

It was never to influence anyone's religious or spiritual beliefs.

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Re: My house might be haunted... No promises...

Unread post by Miyon » Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:09 pm

I didn't read it that way, at least. I want to believe that my grandpa is having a great time on the other side, being free of pain and can go fishing whenever he feels like, and that my kittens are playing with each other in the grass, and can catch flies. ^^
I have "seen" things, a couple of times, and I've felt them, but that's it. I'll leave it at that.

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Re: My house might be haunted... No promises...

Unread post by GormanGhaste » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:28 pm

What I believe is that our loved ones live on in our memories, our thoughts, and our actions. When my father died, it felt like...he was inside me now. It's been almost twenty years, but I still wish I could share new things with him, and in a way I do!

I don't believe in ghosts or an afterlife, but I can tell you Rottingham that whatever happens, your grandmother will Always be with you.
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Re: My house might be haunted... No promises...

Unread post by Jangalian » Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:35 pm

Hauntings aren't always people.

My mom lived in an apartment in OKC when she was young, and two things happened that made her a firm believer in the supernatural forever. Well, four things, but two are unrelated to ghosts and whatnot. Anyways, one day she was coming home from work and there was a chair in the living room that you could see from the front door. As she walked down the hall towards it, something very black and man-shaped leaped up and streaked towards the bedroom, leaving a black smoky trail behind him.

The second thing was that she was hanging a large black velvet poster in the living room (Probably to match her lava lamp, it was the 70's) and as she turned and stepped off the couch, she noticed that all the dials on the stereo were turning back and forth slowly while the sound level and station didn't change. She turned, grabbed her purse, and walked out. And she never went back. :D

Unrelated, but related. There was a woman own the street who had this orange cat named Fisher who had blue eyes that liked the way his meow sounded in the attic. He'd meow really loudly and let it echo and sit there, just listening. Well, one day Fisher got hit by a car, and every day after that, the lady swore that Fisher would meow in the attic, because he still liked the sound.
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Nachtwulf
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Re: My house might be haunted... No promises...

Unread post by Nachtwulf » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:38 am

There's some various theories floating around about shadow people/dark entities/demons... I personally don't like the 'demon' tag since I'm not the sort to attach religious trappings to things. It's sensationalistic and attaches an awful lot of attributes and motivations to something that we don't understand as it is... it's just a bunch of assumptions, and like all assumptions, are likely to be wrong.

Still, they do have a range of behaviors that can be predicted nominally, and appear to feed on negative emotions. As a result, they tend to do things to -amplify- those emotions, like stalk people, harass them while they sleep, scratch them, and so forth. They're usually fairly easy to identify separately from ghosts, however, and the best way to get rid of them is to 'starve' them. Don't let them push you around and they'll go away. This is why prayers/house blessings tend to work; the people are reassured and no longer frightened/upset/etc, so the negative entities move to greener pastures.

Ghosts usually have actual motivations, and are thus a lot harder to get rid of, if not impossible. But they're usually easier to live with.

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Re: My house might be haunted... No promises...

Unread post by Karathyriel » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:18 am

My mom swore, that one day, when she was out shopping, she saw her brother in the crowd, waving at her.
When she tried to reach him, he was gone, she couldn't find him.

She was very confused because my uncle lived in a different country at that time.

When she got home, the bad news already waited: Her brother had died a couple of hours ago.

Afar from that (I wasn't even born at that time!) I luckily never had any contact to the supernatural.

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