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New datamined dialogue from 8.1.5

Stop! … I returned Derek Proudmoore to his family.

I could not stand by and permit such depravity to unfold.

I have troubling news. It seems there are traitors in our midst.

Most of you need fear nothing.

But Derek Proudmoore didn’t flee to Kul Tiras by himself. He had help. Didn’t he…

… Zelling?

You raised him as a Forsaken. But you planned to deny him his free will. To violate his mind.

Thank you for your honesty.

Banshee! Are we nothing more than pawns in your game? You betray the Horde!

No. He did. And so did you.

Take him.

Other will see you for what you are, Sylvanas. You will leave the Horde in ruins!

There is no place for weakness in our ranks.

(Frightened Zelling stammers, panting) (Do we need his dying exertion too?)

So Zelling saved Derek and prevented him from having his mind enslaved by Sylvanas. He confesses to Sylvanas that he was the one that saved Derek and is calling her out for using the Horde's members as pawns and that she'll destroy them all. Zelling is then taken away, either to be killed or "conditioned".


Magni and Brann journey to Uldir to meet with MOTHER

Welcome back, champion. Contamination levels minimal since successful purge of specimen G’huun.

Greetings. I am the Matron of Tenacity, Herald of Endless Research. Designation: MOTHER.

Pleased tae meet ye. I’m–

Visitor identified. Designation: Speaker. Presence of Speaker indicates imminent threat to Azeroth.

Exactly! We need yer help, MOTHER. Azeroth’s dyin’, and nothin’ we do seems tae heal her.

Error: Uldir facility designed for Old God experimentation and containment. Planetary rehabilitation not within operational parameters.

Recommendation: Relocate MOTHER unit to Chamber of Heart facility.

Uh, no offense, but if me flyin’ machine couldn’t carry Magni, I doubt it can haul a titan watcher all the way tae Silithus!

Acknowledged. Waygate activation advised. Destination coordinates encoded within Heart of Azeroth.

Well, ye heard her, champion. Let’s get tae it!



According to Bwonsamdi's voice overs, he wants Sylvanas killed. He tells Talanji that he'll forget the bargain that he made with her father if she will bring him Sylvanas' head.

I'd take what Bwonsamdi say's with a very large grain of salt. He's tricky that one.

Baine and Zelling work together to free Derek. They send a message to Jaina and Shaw to meet them in Theramore to deliver Derek to them. Horde players can either side with Baine or report him to Sylvanas. Either way, Baine and Zelling are attested by Sylvanas and it is suggested that she might attempt to reprogram their minds.

Derek and Jaina share a reunion, though Jaina is cautious of him. She is going to have him meet Calia in order to heal him of any damage that Sylvanas did.

Yaaaaass QUEEN. Finally a leader of an Allied Race that has balls.

I doubt the people of the people of the Alliance will ever truly trust Derek proudmoore because he is undead.

Also I'm loving that we are getting quests with multiple paths.

cowmuflage wrote:I doubt the people of the people of the Alliance will ever truly trust Derek proudmoore because he is undead.

Also I'm loving that we are getting quests with multiple paths.

That's why Juana is planning to bring Derek to Calia first.

pop wrote:

cowmuflage wrote:I doubt the people of the people of the Alliance will ever truly trust Derek proudmoore because he is undead.

Also I'm loving that we are getting quests with multiple paths.

That's why Juana is planning to bring Derek to Calia first.

I don't think that will change peoples minds about him.

In this xpac, the Alliance has been showing more care and concern for the Forsaken than the Horde's Warchief has. Genn has greatly softened his stance towards them. Calia has made it her goal to save the Forsaken, which were her people. Anduin attempted to make peace between them and their living friends and relatives, only to have it ruined by Sylvanas. He even buried the Forsaken that she killed.

Sylvanas has forced the Forsaken to give up any possessions that they had in life. Forced them to change their names so that they wouldn't have the same ones that they had in life. Burned books whose contents regarded anything that wasn't about the Forsaken. Killed a Council that was opposed to her vision of the future of the Forsaken. Destroyed Capital City - the original home of the Forsaken in life - just so that the Alliance couldn't take it. Speculated to have in some way forced Lillian Voss to serve her. Etc. etc. etc. And now she was attempting to take away Derek's free will, which is the cornerstone of Forsaken society.

If the Alliance takes in Derek, which it is looking like that they will, it will completely destroy the story that Sylvanas has been telling the Forsaken for years: that the Alliance and their living friends and family hate them and want them destroyed. Even if the Alliance as a whole doesn't accept Derek, it is looking like Jaina will, which will still destroy Sylvanas' story.

Valnaaros wrote:During the Stormsong incursion, the Horde receive a WQ to kill a Pandaren named Mistweaver Nina. She is found outside of a hut casting a Ring of Peace at the doorway as Horde assassins attempt to get past. Inside are a bunch of injured, unarmed civilians. After killing her, the assassins go inside and kill the civilians. To make things worse, Nian is not a member of the Alliance. She is neutral. Killing her is the equivalent of killing a Doctor without Borders.

It's like how the Alliance are killing vulpera. They are free traders and are neutral. They are not part of the war.

The Vulpera aren't actually being killed. The original WQ was changed a few builds after it was added in the 8.1 ptr. The Vulpera were hired by the Horde to transport supplies for the war effort (which makes them valid military targets). However, the commander in charge of destroying the supplies makes it very clear to you to not kill any Vulpera and to just use a totem that will scare them away whilst you burn their wagons containing Horde supplies. You can still kill Vulpera if you want, but you are explicitly told not to by the commander and there is no benefit in killing them.

Mistweaver Nina was and still is a neutral Pandaren healer that is just trying to protect injured civilians.

Valnaaros wrote:The Vulpera aren't actually being killed. The original WQ was changed a few builds after it was added in the 8.1 ptr. The Vulpera were hired by the Horde to transport supplies for the war effort (which makes them valid military targets). However, the commander in charge of destroying the supplies makes it very clear to you to not kill any Vulpera and to just use a totem that will scare them away whilst you burn their wagons containing Horde supplies. You can still kill Vulpera if you want, but you are explicitly told not to by the commander and there is no benefit in killing them.

Mistweaver Nina was and still is a neutral Pandaren healer that is just trying to protect injured civilians.

Well on the Horde side it most certainlly does not go that way. You see the npcs attacking them.

That's been a problem this xpac. Blizz creating two different stories that cannot both be canon.

Edit: Even then, since they are willingly helping the Horde, whom the Alliance is at war with, them being killed is not exactly uncalled for.

It's still not a good look.

Valnaaros wrote: If the Alliance takes in Derek, which it is looking like that they will, it will completely destroy the story that Sylvanas has been telling the Forsaken for years: that the Alliance and their living friends and family hate them and want them destroyed. Even if the Alliance as a whole doesn't accept Derek, it is looking like Jaina will, which will still destroy Sylvanas' story.

Yeah I agree. I mean Before the Storm pretty much showed that not all alliance shun them and would embrace their family if given the chance. He might become like Calia and really f Sylvannas over friggin love to see that.

I do hope Zelling survives some how gets to be light imbued a well and then he can be with his family once again.

pop wrote:I do hope Zelling survives some how gets to be light imbued a well and then he can be with his family once again.

Likewise. He is a great character and I'd hate for him to have been introduced and then promptly killed. Some worry that his entire purpose (if killed), is just to give people another reason to want Sylvanas dead.

His family seem pretty disgusted by him so I don't know if being "light imbued" is going to change their minds sadly :/

Yup, this "Before the Storm" BS is exactly why I say that anything that is NOT categorically stated in the game is not canon.
Crappy writing, and heavily (and stupidly) biased stories.

Everyone whines about how Blizzard loves the horde so much more (because, apparently, more Blizzard employees play Horde characters?), and yet, Blizzard shits on everything Horde-related.

The Horde are not evil. I am sick and f***ing tired of having the Horde painted with this broad brush and tarring them as the constant villains.

What if it’s all a sham, and Sylvanas expected Derek to escape and return home, but he’s an unwitting time-bomb (metaphorically speaking)? Maybe something will trigger him and he’ll cause destruction to Boralus and/or his family.

As far as I’m concerned the Forsaken have always been villains, and the other Horde races have performed morally repugnant quests for them as part of their levelling, often in conflict with both the theme of their race and the concept that their character is a hero. I don’t really see much is different other than they’re now in charge and it’s no longer so easy to ignore it.

@Sukurachi Unfortunately, that isn’t how it works. There are plenty of things that Blizz writes as canon lore both within and outside of the game that I don’t like, but that doesn’t make it non canon just because I don’t like it.

@Wain. I’m also thinking that it could be possible. She may have finished reprogramming him and is just mad that someone else undermined her authority.

But that being said, Jaina is taking Derek to Calia mainly because she is worried that Sylvanas did something to him and wants Calia to find out if anything was done and, if so, to undo it.

Agreed. There are only a handful of Forsaken that you can truly call morally good. The rest have been shown to be willing to do anything that will help them achieve their goals. And before, like you said, it could just be ignored by the rest of the Horde, but now it not only can’t be ignored but the rest of the Horde is being forced to also commit such acts.