BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

For discussion of the current expansion - pets, mounts, anything!
Forum rules
Treat others with respect. Report, don't respond. Read the complete forum rules.
jna3773
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:14 pm
Realm: Argent Dawn (EU) (Ally) Earthen-Ring (EU) (Horde)
Location: The Netherlands (Holland)

Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by jna3773 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:47 pm

@Valnaaros , Ow I must have misunderstood. well, I will keep an eye on this subject. thanks for the heads-up!

Valnaaros
Pet Finder
Posts: 4456
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:16 pm
Realm: Shadow Council
Gender: Male

Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Valnaaros » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:49 pm

You bet :)

User avatar
Sukurachi
Grand Master Hunter
Grand Master Hunter
Posts: 2755
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:10 am
Realm: The Scryers (Horde), Argent Dawn (Alliance)
Gender: male
Location: Québec, Canada

Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Sukurachi » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:44 pm

Valnaaros wrote:You aren't going to be forced to use any pet. Tenacity, Ferocity, and Cunning will all have equal damage, health, and armor. The difference is spec abilities, which aren't major game changer.
Well, they are removing Brez from quilens, so that can be a pretty major game changer for those of us who play in small groups who don't happen to have a healer present.

A bit of palindromic wisdom:
"Step on no pets!"
Casual player.. don't raid, don't PvP. Suffer from extreme altitis
I love pets - combat or non.
<That Kind of Orc> guild on The Scryers, small, casual LGBT and friends guild, join us Horde-side.


User avatar
Quiv
 Community Resource
 Community Resource
Posts: 2974
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:56 am
Realm: Thrall - Garona (US)
Gender: Dood

Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Quiv » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:52 pm

Yeah they taking Battle Rez away from Hunters completely unfortunately. Doesn't really fit our kit and theme they say. It sucks!

Valnaaros
Pet Finder
Posts: 4456
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:16 pm
Realm: Shadow Council
Gender: Male

Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Valnaaros » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:09 pm

Yeah, it does suck, but it makes sense. As I posted earlier
Valnaaros wrote:I just remembered something that Ion brought up in a recent interview. Basically, in BfA they want every class to bring something unique to the table. Some classes may share similar utilities, like Hero, but not all of them. It could be that they are cutting out the Hunter's brez in order to make the brez of Druids, Warlocks, and DKs more valuable. A Hunter's brez is the clunkiest out of the four to use, so that could be why they chose to take it away from us and not one of the others.

User avatar
Teigan
Illustrious Master Hunter
Illustrious Master Hunter
Posts: 5164
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:05 am
Realm: Proudmoore (A), Thrall (H)
Gender: Male
Location: Somewhere in a cornfield

Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Teigan » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:56 pm

You know, if they're all about classes being unique, how about they give us Eyes of the Beast and Aspect of the Cheetah back?

User avatar
Sukurachi
Grand Master Hunter
Grand Master Hunter
Posts: 2755
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:10 am
Realm: The Scryers (Horde), Argent Dawn (Alliance)
Gender: male
Location: Québec, Canada

Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Sukurachi » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:14 pm

It only makes sense for those of you who raid.
Otherwise, for us soloers and small-groupers, it makes absolutely no sense at all.

I absolutely hate that Blizzard's developer feel they have to create a completely new game at every expansion. Nothing causes me anxiety like having to completely relearn the same class over and over.
Give me new content. Don't keep changing the stupid details of how we're expected to play the game.

A bit of palindromic wisdom:
"Step on no pets!"
Casual player.. don't raid, don't PvP. Suffer from extreme altitis
I love pets - combat or non.
<That Kind of Orc> guild on The Scryers, small, casual LGBT and friends guild, join us Horde-side.


Valnaaros
Pet Finder
Posts: 4456
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:16 pm
Realm: Shadow Council
Gender: Male

Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Valnaaros » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:25 pm

@Teigan I think that Eyes of the Beast was broken at some point around Cata and they just didn't fix it. Cheetah is still around, as I'm sure you know, but I guess Blizz doesn't want it to be a toggle anymore.

@Sukurachi It does make sense for smaller groups, too. Hunters already bring a lot to the table, whether it is in a raid or in a smaller group (you won't need brez when solo). CCs, Slows, being range and capable of moving whilst dpsing, having a lust, etc. The Hunter's brez is the clunkiest of the current four and actually hinders a Hunter, since you have to either slow or stop your dps so that you can manuever your pet over to where the body is (assuming it isn't already by it). Druids and DKs have an instant brez, and a Warlock's only takes a couple of seconds to cast -- with the added benefit of being able to apply it to a target incase they do die.

User avatar
Rikaku
Master Hunter
Master Hunter
Posts: 1366
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:50 am
Realm: Muradin
Gender: Female

Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Rikaku » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:47 pm

Valnaaros wrote:Yeah, it does suck, but it makes sense. As I posted earlier
Valnaaros wrote:I just remembered something that Ion brought up in a recent interview. Basically, in BfA they want every class to bring something unique to the table. Some classes may share similar utilities, like Hero, but not all of them. It could be that they are cutting out the Hunter's brez in order to make the brez of Druids, Warlocks, and DKs more valuable. A Hunter's brez is the clunkiest out of the four to use, so that could be why they chose to take it away from us and not one of the others.

Personally, in my opinion, if ours is the clunkiest to use, it doesn't seem to be *that* much more clunky in my experience. I've maybe only had one issue ever where my pet couldn't immediately and easily brez someone in a raid or M+.

I still don't like the idea that we have to 'lose' brez in order for DKs, Druids, or Warlocks to be 'unique from a hunter' (for lack of a better word). I mean I get why Druid didn't lose it, that's purely one of their iconic abilities from the game hands down. But... IDK, maybe it's because I recall very early in Legion where one of the only ways I got into M+ or Pug raids was because I specifically brought Brez. While I now have stable groups I can run with where it won't matter in BfA, I know my story wasn't unique amongst other Hunters I spoke to. And it's kinda... crappy to think that some of the perks of our class that actually encouraged people to bring/accept Hunters into their groups is going to be lost simply because they want every class to bring something unique to the table.

I'm not sure what exactly 'unique' Hunter will bring. I've heard movement speed, but that's a bit of a crappy 'perk' if so. In raiding moving faster is not always better (see mechanics like Imonar where Stampeding Roar constantly makes someone trip a trap) and in high M+, moving faster is not always a perk because it requires calculated pulls and coordination more then 'GOTTA GO FAST'. And 3 seconds of a speed boost is just... unimpressive to me by a pretty huge margin.

Plus, why would anyone bring a Hunter for that 'unique utility'? A druid can bring them Stampeding Roar AND Brez.... which brings me back to square one of the reason I don't like the idea =/

Hopefully we get something better that makes Hunter 'unique and wanted' in a group. A 3 sec group speed boost isn't going to cut it in my opinion XD


Valnaaros
Pet Finder
Posts: 4456
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:16 pm
Realm: Shadow Council
Gender: Male

Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Valnaaros » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:02 pm

They're actually removing Guttural Roars, which allows Stampeding Roar to have an unlimited range regardless of raid positioning. Depending on how Aspect of the Pack works, it may be a better movement speed boost than Stampeding Roar. Though movement speed boosts weren't always beneficial to certain bosses like Imonar, there were bosses like KJ where Stampeding Roar+Guttural Roars made the fight much easier. Even with just a 3 sec boost, that can make a mechanic much easier to deal with.

Aside from Pack and Hero there is also their traps, their slows/stuns, their ability as a range (MM and BM) to move and still dps. In the Raids and Keystones I have run, these have always been a benefit in one form or another.

User avatar
Sukurachi
Grand Master Hunter
Grand Master Hunter
Posts: 2755
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:10 am
Realm: The Scryers (Horde), Argent Dawn (Alliance)
Gender: male
Location: Québec, Canada

Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Sukurachi » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:57 am

@Valnaaros I honestly don't see where it "does make sense" to a small group.
I often (usually) run with the same small group for questing and stuff, we're three hunters (and sometimes a warrior). Each hunter has a quilen in case things go south at any point.
Now taking that away from us ensures that when things go south, it'll be very south.

I've partied (just two people) with a friend who was only a few levels lower than me. Those few levels may not affect mob levels since they scale, but GEAR is an issue. And I've quite often had to rez my friend while out questing simply because his gear wasn't strong enough while mine was. Again, I don't see how it "does makes sense" to now take away the ability to avoid the long ass walk from the nearest graveyard.

While we're on the "makes sense" thing, why do Warlocks have a rez? They are fel casters, they summon demons. They shouldn't have what is essentially a holy ability. Priests, yes. Paladins, yes. Druids, yes. Shamans, yes.
Warlocks? Death Knights? THAT makes absolutely no sense lore-wise.

Taking away a B.rez from hunters does nothing but piss off hunters, and once again put us at that same "kick the huntard" point we were at a few years ago.

A bit of palindromic wisdom:
"Step on no pets!"
Casual player.. don't raid, don't PvP. Suffer from extreme altitis
I love pets - combat or non.
<That Kind of Orc> guild on The Scryers, small, casual LGBT and friends guild, join us Horde-side.


Valnaaros
Pet Finder
Posts: 4456
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:16 pm
Realm: Shadow Council
Gender: Male

Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Valnaaros » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:05 am

It does make sense, since Blizz makes a lot of their class decisions based on raids, dungeons, and pvp, not outdoor content. They're not concerned whether there is a proper class balance for quests; just for Raids, Dungeons, and PvP. Of course they do things for outdoor content, but whenever they have a QandA or make a post concerning class balance/changes, 99% of the time it is about how classes are in the latest raid or how they are in keystones or the classes being chosen for Arenas and RBGs.

The Soulstone captures the soul of the deceased and allows it to immediately return to the body. That is how it has always worked. DKs have control over the Undead and souls, which allows them to take the soul of someone that has died and put it back into their body. That is concrete lore that has been apart of the game for years. Warlocks and DKs aren't calling upon the Light, Elements, or Nature to resurrect a fallen ally. No, they utilize their dark magics to do so, which has always been in the lore.

User avatar
Lupen202
Grand Master Hunter
Grand Master Hunter
Posts: 1970
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:19 am
Realm: Burning Blade, Frostwolf, Proudmoore
Gender: Female

Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Lupen202 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:07 am

Death knights don't make sense...?

They literally resurrect things from the dead constantly. The scourge?

Trust me I'm not happy about losing it either, but it does make little sense that a rugged hunter & trapper can somehow resurrect people. Not sure why cranes have some holy, god-like power. Quilen are a bit more mythical but still make little sense.

I do a LOT of group content. I two man things constantly, push m+ score hard, etc. etc. I use brez constantly. So don't think I won't miss it. But it is what it is sadly. The fact we can still bring lust though will make us valuable still for groups without shamans and mages - which believe me, are still common even at high difficulties. I do wish we had even more buffs again though.

Image
Neiara - Vulpera hunter - Burning Blade (US)

| My Mount Collection |
| Flight Rising |


Valnaaros
Pet Finder
Posts: 4456
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:16 pm
Realm: Shadow Council
Gender: Male

Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Valnaaros » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:10 am

I do want to make it clear that I will miss the Brez, but like Lupen said, it really doesn't make a ton of sense that Cranes and Quilen are capable of resurrecting the dead. From a lore and mechanics perspective, Hunters have the weakest of the four Brezzes, which I wouldn't be surprised is why Blizz chose to cut it.

User avatar
Lupen202
Grand Master Hunter
Grand Master Hunter
Posts: 1970
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:19 am
Realm: Burning Blade, Frostwolf, Proudmoore
Gender: Female

Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Lupen202 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:11 am

Honestly, out of all the pets... I'm not sure why spirit beasts weren't the one with a battle rez/spirit rez.

Image
Neiara - Vulpera hunter - Burning Blade (US)

| My Mount Collection |
| Flight Rising |


Valnaaros
Pet Finder
Posts: 4456
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:16 pm
Realm: Shadow Council
Gender: Male

Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Valnaaros » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:16 am

Lupen202 wrote:Honestly, out of all the pets... I'm not sure why spirit beasts weren't the one with a battle rez/spirit rez.
Ikr? They actually have power over the spirit realm, since they are spirits/magically empowered.

User avatar
Maria
 Community Resource
 Community Resource
Posts: 16113
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:19 am
Realm: Azol-Nerub ~ Tårnfalk #2397
Gender: Female
Location: Copenhagen- Denmark

Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Maria » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:21 am

Become an engineer and you have cables resten. .though its not a certain as it can failed. ..
Man the more I read about this the sadder i get for non grouping non raiding ppl like i was. I mean those who just want to run around and quest with friends need the brez. .. granted i don't play anymore so i don't know how it is but when i played with mulighed hubby we used brez alot of times.

Image

HUGE thanks to Makoes, Syleye, FeralClaw, Pingupuff, Karin,Bowno, Varethyn, Ashaine, Kishay, Aki (Täräin13), my friend Marie and some lovely ppl on Fligth Rising for my lovely sig

Flight Rising Lair


Valnaaros
Pet Finder
Posts: 4456
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:16 pm
Realm: Shadow Council
Gender: Male

Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Valnaaros » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:54 am

Soloing is fairly easy, especially for hunters. At a reasonable ilvl you can even solo elite WQs. If not, then there are premades. :)

Paradise Woods
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:34 pm

Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Paradise Woods » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:28 am

Valnaaros wrote:You aren't going to be forced to use any pet. Tenacity, Ferocity, and Cunning will all have equal damage, health, and armor. The difference is spec abilities, which aren't major game changer.
Then... this is a complete non issue? All specs are the same, no spec will have any utility that any raid will ask you to bring...? Sounds like this change has 0 issues to it and we shouldn't bother worrying about it.

Yet, here we are, with 8 pages of discussion.

Valnaaros
Pet Finder
Posts: 4456
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:16 pm
Realm: Shadow Council
Gender: Male

Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Valnaaros » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:46 am

Ferocity will have hero, but there will be plenty of Ferocity pets (compared to just two hero pets now). Even then, progression groups will usually have a Mage and/or a Shaman in their group. Outside of that, the spec buffs are just a small speed boost, health boost -- things like that. But they aren't so great that they'll be a gamd changer.

Whilst people are entirely free to express dislike towards the changes, I don't understand when some say that these changes are terrible or that they will unsub because of them.

The first few pages were panic in response to the initial datamining. We didn't know that the health, armor, and damage of all specs would be equal.

Post Reply