BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

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zedxrgal
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Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by zedxrgal » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:25 pm

Xylexia wrote:I've been playing elder scrolls online since black Friday but had planned to reactivate my warcraft account prior to BFA in order to catch up. If this stays I will definitely not be returning to the game until it's fixed!
This for me too. Been playing since launch in 04 & took my first really long hiatus last year due to severe medical issues (amongst other WoW disagreements) & was thinking of coming back about a month or so before BFA launch but now. Yeah no.

I've wanted pet talent trees back for a LONG time. Not like the OFG tree but like hunters have. Would be SO NICE to have the three pet classes with adjustable talents in each class (ferocity, cunning, tenacity). Where hunters truly could specializetheir pet. But not like this Blizz. Not like this. As so many others have said this is a huge step in the wrong direction. This isn't giving hunters choices! This completely takes them away. Even back in the day, if memory serves me right, while you were somewhat locked into a specific pet (wolf, broken tooth) you still had the options to adjust those pets to your liking & play style. This 100% removes that.

Like all of you I really hope this is ....................... not done. Something. I will not come back if this stays.

TO TWITTER!

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Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by SlickrockGhost » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:35 pm

Looking over that pet list again this morning.... assuming nothing substantial changes, in BfA I'll have 2 pets available.

Wasp or Trex for dps.
Quillen for tanking.

Nothing else is worth bringing along (I don't pvp).

My favorite cats will be stabled for life, as they don't bring a debuff, and spirit beasts are useless as tenacity, so those are stabled as well.

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Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Littlemyuu » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:40 pm

Well, this sucks :( Loque was my main pet but now I'm not sure anymore.
Hope we can change the minds of the devs if we all go against it, but I guess it will have little use.

Ah well, guess I step into BoA with my Druid instead...

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Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Xylexia » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:51 pm

Tomb wrote:Don't drag Celestalon into this. Celestalon is part of Hearthstone.

I was just going off the @list on page 1

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Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by SlickrockGhost » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:16 pm

Littlemyuu wrote:Well, this sucks :( Loque was my main pet but now I'm not sure anymore.
Hold that thought...

Rethinking this a bit... discussing this in a different forum, and if it stays true that all 3 families do the same dps, you'll actually want Tenacity as your go-to pet. The increased health plus the damage reduction will likely be best.

So.. IF (and that's a big IF), spirit mend does a significant amount of healing after the rebalancing (it currently isn't worth it), then spirit beasts could still be useful.

Otherwise.. all you need is a Quillen (for raiding anyway), with a rando ferocity pet in case you need lust.

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Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by SlickrockGhost » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:29 pm

I wonder if Blizz has stats on what pets are used. If so.. might be a good protest tool.

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Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by xloudman » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:34 pm

I don't understand why people are so up in arms. It appears that all the specs do the same damage, so the specs are more just for separating the pets into 3 different utility sets. In pvp you still get the choice of tenacity vs burst comps, ferocity vs rot comps and cunning vs melee that you want to kite. Likewise for raiding, ferocity for when your group doesn't have a lust or there's consistent damage going out, tenacity for when there's large periods of burst damage, and cunning for when there's avoidable zones of damage you have to move out of. It's a much more interesting system than what we currently have now. The only perplexing thing is how core hounds and nether rays are both ferocity, you'd think if you wanted to give them that unique utility they'd be tenacity and cunning.

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Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Albain » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:38 pm

Switching pets during raiding is a signfiicant dps loss and inadvisable. the pet you start the fight with is the one you should keep, not switching out frantically in the hopes of getting there before a brez/burst window/damage reduction emergency need happens.

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Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by SylviaDragon » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:47 pm

ew.
just....ew

I have really disliked the path they have been choosing for pets lately. The lack of choice and variety was a big downside for me and this makes it even worse.

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Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Shinryu Masaki » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:55 pm

xloudman wrote:It appears that all the specs do the same damage, so the specs are more just for separating the pets into 3 different utility sets.
That's pretty much what I'm getting out of those changes too. As for the Spirit Beast turning into Tenacity pets, I'm assuming it's because Ferocity has a 3% Leech, and that paired with Spirit Mend could make the pet survive a LOT more than intended in situations that would kill it normally.
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Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Myzou » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:08 pm

Quiv wrote:Wowhead suggested they may have locked pets to spec so moth/crane/quillen can't have both Bloodlust (from Ferocity) and Battle Rez (from the family ability). I have looked through the abilities and don't see any other combinations that struck me as "unfair." I don't see why those two are particularly powerful together, but I suppose putting them on one family/spec could make them mandatory in certain situations and no one wants that. No player class has those two naturally.

This leads me to believe the problem isn't with family abilities and pet specs. The problem is this design direction of tying big abilities (mainly Bloodlust) to a spec. so I have to wonder:

Is having powerful abilities like Bloodlust tied to spec a good idea?

Since this is the result, I say no its not. I want specs to have unique abilities and flavor, but lust is too big. This leads me to think that the big abilities like lust and rez need to be rethought. I don't think tying them to a spec (and therefore forcing pets into a spec) is a good idea. I think the pet talent idea is the better solution, even if its only one row where we choose one of the big abilities.

This would give all pets access to rez and lust, but I don't see the big deal with having a devilsaur rez you over a crane. It could be a generic ability like they did with calling Bloodlust "primal rage."

Though to be completely honest, I didn't see a big deal with tying lust and rez to specific families anyway. They were already on an exotic and non-exotic family, and we have 5 call pet slots. We can have them if needed. This part of the changes strikes me as trying to fix something that isn't necessarily broken. I'm glad families got some normal abilities back (although they are woefully boring), but the spec/big ability change was unnecessary.
If anything, give HUNTERS the heroism spell, so even marksman has it. Just callit something like aspect of the raptor.

"Incites the Aspect of the Raptor in party/raid members, increasing haste by 40% for 40 seconds." or whatnot.
xloudman wrote:I don't understand why people are so up in arms. It appears that all the specs do the same damage, so the specs are more just for separating the pets into 3 different utility sets. In pvp you still get the choice of tenacity vs burst comps, ferocity vs rot comps and cunning vs melee that you want to kite. Likewise for raiding, ferocity for when your group doesn't have a lust or there's consistent damage going out, tenacity for when there's large periods of burst damage, and cunning for when there's avoidable zones of damage you have to move out of. It's a much more interesting system than what we currently have now. The only perplexing thing is how core hounds and nether rays are both ferocity, you'd think if you wanted to give them that unique utility they'd be tenacity and cunning.
Doesn't matter. Hunters will be required to bring a Ferocity Pet for Heroism, and to always have a Moth/Crane/Quilen on them for Battle Res, and be expected to swap to it mid-fight if necessary.

Like I said, just give hunters aspects that act as heroism and possibly battle res, so that pets are not required for these (so marksman can also use them, since they're forcing lone wolf on marksman again). Aspect of the Raptor/Aspect of the Crane. "Instills the Aspect of the Crane in a party member, ressurecting them with 100% health and 20% mana. 10 Min CD."

Hunters are the only class that bring no utility to the group on alpha.

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Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Talihawk » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:37 pm

I hope lots of people are commenting on the wow official forums and on twitter to the warcraftdevs . Got to let the know we think this is a bad idea.

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Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Xella » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:52 pm

Maybe I'm coming at this from a different angle, but I don't think ferocity pets are going to be the one you HAVE to have in raids—unless you don't raid with a shaman or mage (or anyone else who might be gaining heroism) or you still need the specific pets who bring brez (eff that, dude—you're revamping the entire system and still leaving VERY SPECIFIC PETS with such a game-changing ability?!), you're going to need a tenacity pet. How many times, especially in progression raiding, do you need a defensive cooldown that you, as a hunter, don't actually have because your only defensive (Turtle) gets used on some nonsense soaking ability? And now you're telling me that the only way to get a defensive cooldown for your personal use is to have a specific type of pet out? Combine that with tenacity pets just passively giving you 10% more health so mechanics are less likely to one-shot you?

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuugh.

From a personal perspective, sporebats are cunning which have my personal favourite combination of abilities (movement speed and master's call, which has had some excessively useful niche uses in raids in the past, plus tranq shot), but I can see never being able to use Sporey in non-farm raids because of that health and that defensive and that heroism (and that battle rez). Not being able to use him in raids was a large part of why I quit raiding with Rainbow after DS died.
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Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by SlickrockGhost » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:18 pm

Xella wrote:Combine that with tenacity pets just passively giving you 10% more health so mechanics are less likely to one-shot you?
Yeah.. that may be a thing.

Hopefully the new creature families will give us some other nice choices..

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Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Bangeall » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:12 pm

I can't fathom why they made this decision. Removing choice is clearly a step back. I'm more worried though about what else this will mean for hunters, what other strange decisions will be made in the name of "improvements."
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Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Myzou » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:36 pm

Don't get me wrong, I actually think the changes to Ferocity/Cunning/Tenacity are great. It means we'll have more choice, and won't be screwed over if we enter into a LFR right as they pull with a tenacity pet out, etc.

But they shouldn't take away the ability to respec pets.

ESPECIALLY if it's being done to stop cranes/moths/quilen from having heroism AND battle res. Just take battle res off of them and stick it as the tenacity ability like it was in the first part of alpha instead of the damage taken reduction ability. That way Tenacity pets actually have a raid use (+10% health and battle res), ferocity still have a raid use (heroism and leech) and cunning have a niche use in PvE (for high mobility fights)

Our reaction to tenacity having battle res being bad was BEFORE we knew about these other changes. We thought Tenacity would still be a damage loss to ferocity.

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Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Paradise Woods » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:51 pm

The worry (for me, anyway) isn't that cunning will do less DPS than ferocity, or tenacity can't be used for threat reasons.

Locked specs means if you want to use your favourite pet, who is now tenacity, but your raid group wants you to bring a cunning, you can't use that pet. It's just a huge step backwards in terms of QoL and personalisation. I don't want to go back to the days of every raider having the same pet.

[[Yes, the argument can be made for lust and brez pets, but you'd be hard pressed to find a solid raid group that lacks either.]]

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Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by viaradda » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:11 pm

Quiv wrote:I'd like to know their reasoning for such a design change, like what their end goal is.
I obviously can't speak for Blizzard, but this change makes a lot of sense to me.

Currently, homogenization has reached the point where in a typical raid environment (where plenty of people have hero/brez), all hunters use the same pet, because the OmniPet is the only pet hunters are offered. The only real difference from the bad old days where everyone brought a wolf is that now we can transmog our OmniPet to look like anything. But it's still the same OmniPet underneath.

In situations where the pet we use matters, the choice is obvious and extremely restrictive. Doing a dungeon run where no one else has Bloodlust? You're using a pet with it, like it or not.

Either way, this isn't interesting or engaging gameplay. Either the choice is irrelevant or overly restrictive. There's rarely a middle ground.

Thus the new system attempts to create that middle ground. The end goal is for pet choice to matter without being too restrictive. So, if there's a boss where you really need that extra movement speed, you'll want to choose a pet with it (cunning), but you'll have a large variety to choose from.

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Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by Valnaaros » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:16 pm

I've been thinking about this and reading what everyone has been saying. Though I'm sure this is still a work in progress, I think that it may be a good thing in the long run. We'll just have to see how it plays out.

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Re: BFA Taking a Step Back for Pets. :/ (Specializations)

Unread post by SlickrockGhost » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:31 pm

Valnaaros wrote:I've been thinking about this and reading what everyone has been saying. Though I'm sure this is still a work in progress, I think that it may be a good thing in the long run. We'll just have to see how it plays out.
Well, it's back to the old days. Cunning pets? maybe if you pvp. 10% health plus an oh-shit is better that 8% movement any day. (Except perhaps for running around when leveling).

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