REALLY squishy pets

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Thwip
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Re: REALLY squishy pets

Unread post by Thwip » Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:03 pm

It's not a complaint so much as 'Why am I having to hit it every time it's off CD.' When before we might just need to heal our pet once during a big pull or after things were dead. I never had to have it rolling constantly unless I pulled an elite. (Of which, I have a much easier time downing????) I'm not pulling any more then I was last xpac. I feel like I can not pull as much as I could before. Pets feel weak. I realized where my limits were when I was leveling. A good pet + active healing and mitigation on my part and I could have at least four things on my pet at once without issues. Now that I'm at a higher Ilvl, I've pulled way more. This is open world leveling content, it's not suppose to eat my pet alive.

It's also not that I didn't know how much I could or can pull or even how to play the class properly, but often that things would either spawn on top of me from the previous quester having cleared it, or extra packs of pats that happened to wander by. Ya can't trap more then one! I feel like things have a higher aggro radius this go too. I often find myself with a ton of things out of nowhere that I did not pull myself. But that's NOT the point. The point is that pets feel like they aren't holding up like they were last xpac. Even while leveling in Legion, it didn't feel like my pets were dying this much. I don't know if was due to the way they changed up pet abilities or what exactly happened from 7.0/7.3.5 to 8.0.

We're also trying to share what IS working for more fun content. It's just a drag that I feel like I need a pet I didn't have in my stable before instead of being able to use the ones I want or do have. Some obviously work better then others and those are ones with 1 min defensive CDs. I likely wouldn't have tamed a Scalehide on my main if it didn't actually work out well in the open world content and keep me alive well. I assume Turtles are actually working out well for that same CD. However, for me open world content shouldn't feel like I need a specific pet families. And yes, anything with a defensive is in high priority right now.


(It's not as much complaining as 'Man, what is the deal???' And with this many people that seem to agree just from this thread alone, something wonky is going on.)

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Re: REALLY squishy pets

Unread post by Daetur » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:22 pm

Thwip wrote:
Daetur wrote:
Sukurachi wrote:My issue isn't with my pet dying during 3-man miniboss battles!
It's with REGULAR mobs.
The battle where I had to rez my pet 5 times, despite also having a Warrior with me on the fight, was a single-person mini-boss, not a multi-player boss.

My ilevel is just under 300 (if i recall, like 295 or something). I only hit level 120 a few days ago.
I haven't had any problems with non-elites pulled solo, even fresh at 120, and I don't use a Ferocity pet for routine play. Are you using Intimidate to stun and give your pet extra time to heal up, while keeping Mend Pet running at all times? Using Exhilaration to heal them to full when they get very low?

I'm a little baffled, because I just haven't had this experience with any of my pets, and my gear should have been pretty much the same as all of yours from 116- fresh 120.
Actually, you are experiencing it if you are having to roll mend pet constantly. You just didn't realize. I've never spammed Mend Pet so hard in normal open world content in the last 8yrs as I have this go. If any of us are having to use Exhilaration just to keep our pets from dying, on simple open world pulls, that's not what that's really for. That's a self heal, not a pet heal. It's for emergencies to keep your own self from dying, but I find I've been using it way more and nearly on CD. I don't like spamming it on my pet as then I don't have my own defensive outside of Disengage and Feign Death. Disengage can be woefully unhelpful in areas with tight packed mobs. (LOOKIN' AT YOU NAZMIR) Also, Intimidate does not help if you pull 3+ packs of mobs, which is what most people are having issues with.

I'm also curious what you ARE using if not a Ferocity pet. For a while, I was using a Spirit Beast and having to use it's own heal on it to keep it up when I pulled more then 2 things. Not all of these instances were when I pulled things myself. Some were pats that landed on me while I was slowly killing things. (I feel like I'm constantly out of Focus. Can we have the build/spend style back? I hate Focus regenerating on it's own.)

I'm also going to preface that after I hit 310ilvl, that it didn't feel so bad with a Scalehide as well. I'm also going to say that I have not had a single issues soloing elites. It's just packs.

Quiv also has me concerned that lowbie leveling is going to be a bitch and a half now.

I've alternated between Spirit Beast, Hyena, Stag, and Water Strider- I do run the Spirit Beast most often, but I've had no issues with pet deaths with any of them provided I use the abilities available to me, which implies to me that it's functioning correctly and not unreasonably. We very much have the tools to keep our pets alive, though they do take more maintenance than before.

But if we have the tools to keep them alive with- in my experience, ease- why is this such an issue? Sukurachi says their pet died 5 times fighting a single quest mob, and implies that they've had that issue- pets dying- consistently. I just haven't, regardless of what pet I'm using, which means I'm not seeing the problem being described of 'needing' to use a specific pet in open world content.

I'm just trying to figure out where the problem is- is Sukurachi not using some of their abilities? What suggestions can I offer to help them be able to have the same experience as me, and use whatever pet they want?

I find if my pet is tanking, I have no need whatsoever for Exhilaration for myself, so it seems very reasonable to use it as a pet heal if the pet is soaking all the damage for me, for example.

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Thwip
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Re: REALLY squishy pets

Unread post by Thwip » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:45 pm

Do you often allow the Spirit Beast to mend itself when you pull? That is something I have found makes a very big difference, however, I feel as if I'm dumping a LOT of abilities into keeping them alive. Not as much now, but that's still an issue for leveling. Prior to this change, I only ever kept Exhilaration and Spirit Mend for myself if my pet lost aggro. Or if an elite did AoE attacks. When using a Spirit Beast, I ended up having to make a macro to have it mend itself. That plus my own mend generally would get it from near death to full health. Yet when I was leveling with a Spirit Beast, I would need to use everything. Spirit Mend, Mend Pet, and Exhil. That's......not normal.

I, personally, still do not like using my 2min defensive CD on my pet. If things go awry for any reason, I like to have it handy for myself. That isn't to say that I don't use it on my pet at all. I just don't like to. It's still odd to feel like we NEED to use it on CD where we didn't before.

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Re: REALLY squishy pets

Unread post by Rawr » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:49 pm

We solo mobs that would need a tank that heals or a tank and healer to deal with, as a DPS we have a tank that we heal in order to do that, I don't see, as we can still do that, why people are upset that they have to press a button they apparently never touch and manage their pets a bit more.

At the beginning of the expansion we gear up, we are weak, it's like that for everyone, bite the bullet and get gear in randoms then go out and do WQs if thats what it takes. At around 320 iLevel a BM hunter can solo a 1.5 million HP NPC, unless you're a Pally tank (or DK) you can't do that.

I don't think the pets are the problem, I don't think they need to be buffed for Hunters to be playable or fun. The only thing I find I have an issue with is their horrendous AI and the fact that they get hung up on small bumps and don't come back to you when put on Passive (like they did before the 1st patch). :|

We are the best solo DPS class in the game if that takes a bit more management or an extra button or two pressed I'm fine with that, people just need to get some more gear, like everyone one else. :mrgreen:

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Re: REALLY squishy pets

Unread post by Thwip » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:04 pm

You are confusing the idea of 'concern' with being 'upset'. As far as I'm aware. No one in here is complaining, per se. Nor upset. It's a massive CONCERN that pets don't feel nearly as sturdy as they used to. Especially when leveling, as Quiv mentioned having issues at lower levels too. Cause it's hard to tell someone who's leveling 'Oh, just get gear'. That's not an answer.

And let's not start blaming the players. I feel everyone here is fairly seasoned on how to play and be more active with their mitigation.

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Re: REALLY squishy pets

Unread post by Rawr » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:24 pm

I had no issues outside of what was expected of leveling. I leveled with a party and solo. Pulling like you're in raid gear and Artifacts while leveling then not having the same outcome and then saying pets are too weak is the issue. No one I've played with or that has alt Hunters have said they have this issue with weak pets. I haven't had this issue with any of my lowbie alt Hunters either. They should not have to buff pets because a few people are having an issue that can be solved several different ways. If they did buff pets it should only be so their HP scales a bit better (and fix the AI issues) but other than that, they are fine. :mrgreen:

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Re: REALLY squishy pets

Unread post by Thwip » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:59 pm

No one said they were pulling like they were in full raid gear and saying that's the issue is a harsh assumption. And honestly, most of my gear got shed the minute I stepped on Zandalar. I never pulled more then what was reasonable. Three at max. How is that 'pulling like your in full raid gear'? If people weren't experiencing this, then this thread wouldn't exist. Blaming it on 'not pushing the button' or gear is silly. Even warlocks have mentioned their blueberries are not quite so sturdy.


However, I think we can agree that if something DID happen, a nice little HP scale would be nice. I'm not saying pets feel weak in their damage output, at all. They're fine on that front. It just feels like things are chewing through their health like dang, yo.

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Re: REALLY squishy pets

Unread post by sasrei7 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:10 pm

I think pets are for sure squishy, and I think hunters are just annoyed that more now then ever people are forced to use certain pets only just to stay alive. I've been just using my spirit beasts as otherwise my other pets go the way of the squish. But yah I am constantly using spirit mend every single time it's up. I know I'm not the best hunter, but dannng lol

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Re: REALLY squishy pets

Unread post by pawprintedheart » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:12 pm

I didn't notice too much on my main hunter...who typically runs with a wolf or a spirit beast. But on my side hunter who uses a bird or a dog.... ouch. Ouch. Tamed her a wolf and it was night and day, and that bites. I hate that for leveling I feel almost required to have a certain type of pet for the first time and that bites. I always have had Mend Pet on my bars and use it when needed, and I have zero issue using it, but I really dislike having to run with certain pets just to level in relative comfort without dragging through mud.

And I'm not pulling like I'm in full raid gear or anything either...lol I've always been a solo player for the most part, I never stepped foot in a dungeon until last expac. I normally get enough gear through WQ or whatever to make myself comfy at max. I prefer the leveling experience, and that's where this stings a bit.

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Re: REALLY squishy pets

Unread post by Dewclaw » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:55 pm

I've been using scalehides for the extra shielding. I feel like I have to have one or the pet and/or I die. I'd much rather run with the pet of my choice.:(
Last edited by Dewclaw on Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: REALLY squishy pets

Unread post by Khoovi » Sat Sep 01, 2018 5:24 am

Yes it's good to share observations just to figure out what's subjective and what's actual.

For what it's worth, I have found things getting better now I'm paying attention once again to my pet's specific abilities instead of treating them cosmetically. This is, perhaps, as it should be although I would like to use my 'favourite' visual pets more frequently.

I tamed a Scalehide and it survives much better with that shield, and requires much less healing. I still use a cunning pet for zipping around in lighter combat, as I like the run speed boost. Tenacity pets do not seem to be doing too well, though Spirit Beasts are tanking just fine for me now.

Also got some blue gear to push my ilevel up over 300, upgraded my bow, invested in some Versatility and chose Azerite traits for healing wherever possible. That helped a lot.

Things are more 'business as usual' again, I think I had just grown over-used to being relatively well equipped with legendary abilities and am naturally having to work harder now with fresh content.

I am still pumping Mend Pet and occasionally Reviving more than I have in a long time though, seems a little too much, which does still suggest some level of relative squishiness on the pet's end of things as if they didn't scale up so well over the last few levels.

There is something weird about the AI yes, I keep 'losing' them in Borallus (mainly stuck on the mission ship), and also when on passive and commanded to stay when I want to pull something out carefully, I have had them running in anyway .. which is rather dangerous !

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Re: REALLY squishy pets

Unread post by Teigan » Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:16 pm

Khoovi wrote: There is something weird about the AI yes, I keep 'losing' them in Borallus (mainly stuck on the mission ship), and also when on passive and commanded to stay when I want to pull something out carefully, I have had them running in anyway .. which is rather dangerous !
I'm also having AI issues. Twice they've gone after things in dungeons that I didn't tell them to and I don't know why. Raid starts Tuesday, and I'm worried about this. Anyone know what's going on there?

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Re: REALLY squishy pets

Unread post by jensketch » Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:37 am

I've been doing the mythics for 3 weeks and I haven't had a single issue with pet AI. In fact, in all the 6 years I've been a Hunter, I've never had an issue with pet AI that I didn't cause myself by jumping over something that isn't normally passable (and the pet taking the "long" way back to my side, pulling mobs along the way) or pressing pet attack on accident. I've never understood the "wonky" pet AI, I have not experienced anything of the sort, ever.

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