Tenacity Pets dying really fast?

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Maizou
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Tenacity Pets dying really fast?

Unread post by Maizou »

I'm wondering if this is just me.

In 9.0, I had no problems.

But in 9.1, my Tenacity Pets die 2-3x faster than both my Ferocity and my Cunning Pets, despite having more health, and even if I'm using a Beetle with the Damage Reduction skill.

I first noticed it when I dragged my Giraffe out, and had to resurrect it TWICE when killing a non-elite in Korthia. (My ferocity pet can tank 2-3 of them and not have to be ressed once)

Is this just me, or is something up?
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Re: Tenacity Pets dying really fast?

Unread post by Vephriel »

Hmm, I've honestly used Ferocity pets this whole expansion as my "tanking" pets because they are far more survivable, so I can't say I've used Tenacity ones enough to notice besides the general sentiment that them and Cunning feel rather useless for solo content unfortunately. Really hope we go back to being able to choose pet specs eventually.
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Re: Tenacity Pets dying really fast?

Unread post by Ana »

I use clefthooves for solo so can't say I noticed

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Re: Tenacity Pets dying really fast?

Unread post by mythreign »

Ive noticed it i was using a mammoth and it just got destroyed .
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Re: Tenacity Pets dying really fast?

Unread post by Zetharl »

I've been disliking the pet tanking balance since the start of this expansion. Ferocity pets are easily the best tanks thanks to the leech, clefthooves specifically. I don't think the leech needs a nerf, btw. Tenacity and Cunning pets just need something general to reduce their damage taken.

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Re: Tenacity Pets dying really fast?

Unread post by Ana »

I agree. No nerf but other pets should have surviability too.

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Re: Tenacity Pets dying really fast?

Unread post by Wain »

Yes, I started using a cloudstrider when the Sullen Cloudstrider was found, and they die way too fast :(

I still bring it out for fun now and then but if it's anything important, or even just field quests in Korthia, I revert to using my wolf.
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Re: Tenacity Pets dying really fast?

Unread post by Clayford13 »

It's truly sad. I have never felt so restricted on what pet I can use.
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Re: Tenacity Pets dying really fast?

Unread post by worgpower »

Clayford13 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:27 am It's truly sad. I have never felt so restricted on what pet I can use.
I feel the same way, I have to restrict to a scalehide for a overall better pet for tanking, and since my favorite pets are cunning, Blazeseeker and my aquilon, it disappoints me I can’t use them for anything else besides low level content, eyes of the beast scouting, and PvP, I hope Blizz will bring back pet spec switching, but SV does have a healing mastery, but I’m still disappointed about the changes made in BFA
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Re: Tenacity Pets dying really fast?

Unread post by Quiv »

I haven't played in 9.1 yet, but even in 9.0, I felt confined to a Clefthoof (as BM) due to this very thing. I would love more control over this so I can use other pets I love. I know some may consider a few spec/family combinations odd, but I personally feel the gameplay flexibility and advantages are far better, at least in this case.
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Re: Tenacity Pets dying really fast?

Unread post by Clayford13 »

worgpower wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:36 am
Clayford13 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:27 am It's truly sad. I have never felt so restricted on what pet I can use.
I feel the same way, I have to restrict to a scalehide for a overall better pet for tanking, and since my favorite pets are cunning, Blazeseeker and my aquilon, it disappoints me I can’t use them for anything else besides low level content, eyes of the beast scouting, and PvP, I hope Blizz will bring back pet spec switching, but SV does have a healing mastery, but I’m still disappointed about the changes made in BFA
Same here. I use a ferocity pet for anything serious and if I want to use another pet (especially cunning) I just use it for show around town.
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Re: Tenacity Pets dying really fast?

Unread post by WerebearGuy »

It's a shame how Tenacity is pretty much just as useless as Cunning. The only real value it has that keeps it from being trash like Cunning is that you have an extra defensive. If you need that extra defense, you either A) need to stop doing stupid things, B) need better healers, or C) you're doing mythic raiding and you actually DO need the defensive. Cunning has no place anywhere, and Tenacity only provides a gitgud button, yet Ferocity sits at the conference table of correct pet choices while Clefthooves sit in the CEO chair. The obvious fixes would be either pet spec swapping or removal of these traits in general. On one hand, everyone would go Ferocity for leech and heroism/bloodlust, which would just make the other two pointless, while the other option would make all three equally pointless.

Basically, Ferocity is in such a good position that literally any other choice that could be made is a design flaw. Pet specs need an overhaul, though there's currently plenty of other problems that need addressing before we get our pets fixed. Really though, just use whatever you want unless you need to be the one to bring heroism/bloodlust to your group. If your pet is dying, just pull less or take it a bit slower.
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Re: Tenacity Pets dying really fast?

Unread post by worgpower »

WerebearGuy wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:05 pm It's a shame how Tenacity is pretty much just as useless as Cunning. The only real value it has that keeps it from being trash like Cunning is that you have an extra defensive. If you need that extra defense, you either A) need to stop doing stupid things, B) need better healers, or C) you're doing mythic raiding and you actually DO need the defensive. Cunning has no place anywhere, and Tenacity only provides a gitgud button, yet Ferocity sits at the conference table of correct pet choices while Clefthooves sit in the CEO chair. The obvious fixes would be either pet spec swapping or removal of these traits in general. On one hand, everyone would go Ferocity for leech and heroism/bloodlust, which would just make the other two pointless, while the other option would make all three equally pointless.

Basically, Ferocity is in such a good position that literally any other choice that could be made is a design flaw. Pet specs need an overhaul, though there's currently plenty of other problems that need addressing before we get our pets fixed. Really though, just use whatever you want unless you need to be the one to bring heroism/bloodlust to your group. If your pet is dying, just pull less or take it a bit slower.
Maybe, instead of removing specs, maybe add a modern day talent system, just like the characters talent system and choose what traits or abilities that will benefit them, maybe then, it will make all specs equal
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Re: Tenacity Pets dying really fast?

Unread post by Ana »

I loved the pet talent tree we once had.
I would love to not have to run around with a clefthoof. But I would hate to loose the healing bonus the clefthoof has. A talent tree and free choice of pet spec would be really nice

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Re: Tenacity Pets dying really fast?

Unread post by worgpower »

Maria wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:59 pm I loved the pet talent tree we once had.
I would love to not have to run around with a clefthoof. But I would hate to loose the healing bonus the clefthoof has. A talent tree and free choice of pet spec would be really nice
On my previous BM main, I preferred running with my Vilebone ravager than a clefthoof, since they’re a boring family, Blizz be like, that’s too fun, take it away boys, I am probably one of those players that prefer the new simplified talent trees, I preferred stats and ranks baked into abilities than to waste points on ability stats
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Re: Tenacity Pets dying really fast?

Unread post by WerebearGuy »

The problem with talent trees is that there WILL be a cookie cutter choice. Blizzard hasn't done talent trees right in so long, and I have zero faith that they could do pet talents right when they can't even make class talents work. Having multiple options doesn't matter when specific ones are correct and everything else is niche/useless/wrong. The old trees were good for their time, but they mostly amounted to silly stuff like a few extra percent damage or health, with maybe a few significant gains. Gradual talent trees with many branching paths and more than six points is absolutely worth having if they all end up actually mattering, but that's the issue; the stuff you don't take will never matter. That's just how modern Blizzard talents are, unfortunately. There may be some room for flexibility, like how Hunters can go Pathfinding, Camo, and Trailblazer (Camo for life), but the talents that matter always boil down to Correct > Situational > WHAT ARE YOU DOING. I don't play every class and spec, so maybe I'm wrong on one or two of them, but for the ten classes I do play, that just ends up being the case. There's no choice in the talents except for maybe one or two that have zero effect on your performance, and that's exactly what will happen with pets. I don't want pets to suck like most classes do.

I'm sure absolutely nobody will agree with me here, but I'd be fully game for pets having no talents or abilities. Leave them as vanity, much like our transmog. There will always be bad talents, but there will never be bad vanity. Well, unless it has ugly colors like a pink elekk that I still can't figure out a way to tame, but still.
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Re: Tenacity Pets dying really fast?

Unread post by Valnaaros »

Yeah, talent trees like something back in Vanilla or TBC really won't work. The problem will still exist where one spec is better than the others. The best option as far as I can see is to leave Ferocity alone, since it is pretty good right now, and buff Tenacity and Cunning.
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Re: Tenacity Pets dying really fast?

Unread post by worgpower »

WerebearGuy wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:39 pm The problem with talent trees is that there WILL be a cookie cutter choice. Blizzard hasn't done talent trees right in so long, and I have zero faith that they could do pet talents right when they can't even make class talents work. Having multiple options doesn't matter when specific ones are correct and everything else is niche/useless/wrong. The old trees were good for their time, but they mostly amounted to silly stuff like a few extra percent damage or health, with maybe a few significant gains. Gradual talent trees with many branching paths and more than six points is absolutely worth having if they all end up actually mattering, but that's the issue; the stuff you don't take will never matter. That's just how modern Blizzard talents are, unfortunately. There may be some room for flexibility, like how Hunters can go Pathfinding, Camo, and Trailblazer (Camo for life), but the talents that matter always boil down to Correct > Situational > WHAT ARE YOU DOING. I don't play every class and spec, so maybe I'm wrong on one or two of them, but for the ten classes I do play, that just ends up being the case. There's no choice in the talents except for maybe one or two that have zero effect on your performance, and that's exactly what will happen with pets. I don't want pets to suck like most classes do.

I'm sure absolutely nobody will agree with me here, but I'd be fully game for pets having no talents or abilities. Leave them as vanity, much like our transmog. There will always be bad talents, but there will never be bad vanity. Well, unless it has ugly colors like a pink elekk that I still can't figure out a way to tame, but still.
That was legion right there, all the pets were mostly no abilities, except for the exotic pets, all I want is for the exotic flag to be removed, so my survival hunter can tame a clefthoof, devilsaur, or a core hound of all I know
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Re: Tenacity Pets dying really fast?

Unread post by Serendipity82 »

I've noticed this since the start of the expansion - my tenacity pets were getting slayed instantly when I was using them for leveling. Switched to my rhino (and now my shardhide) for soloing and I use my tenacity pets primarily to raid because of survival of the fittest.
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Re: Tenacity Pets dying really fast?

Unread post by Cozzene »

I think the families just flat out shouldn't be restricted. You want a cunning tallstrider? Go for it. Tenacity raptor? You got it. Ferocity serpent? All yours.
If it's a worry about balance (i.e. the healing offered by a ferocity spirit beast), that could always be adjusted - "Heals for X (Ferocity)/Y (Cunning)/Z (Tenacity)".

This restriction just feels out of place in a game that's been pushing towards customisation as much as it has been lately.
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