Dragonflight is the perfect time for Tamable DRAGONKIN pets for hunters

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ace_of_hearth
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Dragonflight is the perfect time for Tamable DRAGONKIN pets for hunters

Unread post by ace_of_hearth »

Pull the ripcord, Blizz.
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Re: Dragonflight is the perfect time for Tamable DRAGONKIN pets for hunters

Unread post by Valnaaros »

I just don't see it happening. Most dragons are sentient/sapient, and a new retcon with Dragonflight is that even Proto Drakes are sentient/sapient. In general, things which are sentient/sapient and are tameable are the exceptions and not the standard.
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Re: Dragonflight is the perfect time for Tamable DRAGONKIN pets for hunters

Unread post by Zetsoban »

Valnaaros wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 7:32 pm I just don't see it happening. Most dragons are sentient/sapient, and a new retcon with Dragonflight is that even Proto Drakes are sentient/sapient. In general, things which are sentient/sapient and are tameable are the exceptions and not the standard.
Alexstraza, Ysera and the likes were sentient when they were proto drakes in the Novel Dawn of the Aspects (2013 so during Mop) so this retcon has been around a little longer.
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Re: Dragonflight is the perfect time for Tamable DRAGONKIN pets for hunters

Unread post by Valnaaros »

Zetsoban wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:51 am
Valnaaros wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 7:32 pm I just don't see it happening. Most dragons are sentient/sapient, and a new retcon with Dragonflight is that even Proto Drakes are sentient/sapient. In general, things which are sentient/sapient and are tameable are the exceptions and not the standard.
Alexstraza, Ysera and the likes were sentient when they were proto drakes in the Novel Dawn of the Aspects (2013 so during Mop) so this retcon has been around a little longer.
That is true, but it was believed that they were exceptions and that most Proto Drakes were not like them. The new lore that Blizz has shared with this xpac is that there was a division amongst the Proto Drakes, with some joining the Aspects and others joining this new group in Dragonflight.
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DannyGreen
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Re: Dragonflight is the perfect time for Tamable DRAGONKIN pets for hunters

Unread post by DannyGreen »

I'd hardly call it the exception.
They openly say Gryphons and hippogryps have human level intelligence.
We got the whole panda drakes, the old god bug things, hive mind monsters, elemental beasts, undeads.
Dragonkin is completely valid, if you consider many of them to just be sub humanoid intellect.
Wolves can have communities, monkeys can use tools, crows remember things generationally. So many creatures are more than just, dumb animals. But we still tame them as pets.
Is a dragon capable of human level intellect and understanding. Sure if they get old and wise enough, or get some magic hoodoovoodoo.
But so can every animal in the warcraft universe.
Loa, turtles, spirit beasts, monkeys do it alot actually, anything that has access to kajamite.

So being able to tame a dragon, doesn't seem that weird to me. I don't expect to walk into a raid and walk out with onyxia any time soon, but more savage drakes I don't see why the hell not.
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Re: Dragonflight is the perfect time for Tamable DRAGONKIN pets for hunters

Unread post by Vephriel »

At the end of the day I think it's entirely possible, WoW devs often lean toward the "rule of cool" and I think we could make arguments back and forth all day but ultimately it's their decision and there's plenty of similar cases already that makes me feel they could be swayed. I think it would be cool, but we'll just have to wait and see if they do or not.
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Re: Dragonflight is the perfect time for Tamable DRAGONKIN pets for hunters

Unread post by Valnaaros »

DannyGreen wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 6:07 pm I'd hardly call it the exception.
They openly say Gryphons and hippogryps have human level intelligence.
We got the whole panda drakes, the old god bug things, hive mind monsters, elemental beasts, undeads.
Dragonkin is completely valid, if you consider many of them to just be sub humanoid intellect.
Wolves can have communities, monkeys can use tools, crows remember things generationally. So many creatures are more than just, dumb animals. But we still tame them as pets.
Is a dragon capable of human level intellect and understanding. Sure if they get old and wise enough, or get some magic hoodoovoodoo.
But so can every animal in the warcraft universe.
Loa, turtles, spirit beasts, monkeys do it alot actually, anything that has access to kajamite.

So being able to tame a dragon, doesn't seem that weird to me. I don't expect to walk into a raid and walk out with onyxia any time soon, but more savage drakes I don't see why the hell not.
Gryphons aren't stated as having human-level intelligence. The lore about Hippogryphs is from the RPG and is considered non-canon.
The intelligence of Cloud Serpents isn't stated, and it is stated that they are not related to the Dragonflights. The intelligent Old God beasts that are seen as being on the level of humanoids are usually the leaders of them and, thus, exceptions. Elemental beasts are just beasts that are created from or infused with elemental magic. Something being undead doesn't heighten intelligence. If anything, it tends to lessen it.
Of course animals have varying degrees of intelligence, but that doesn't put them on the same level as a humanoid. Dragons are intelligent from birth. Wrathion, right after hatching, was capable of speech and taking over Ravenholdt for a time.
Animals that are Loa or Wild Gods are exceptions, not the rule.
The fact is that while there are exceptions, most of what we tame is not on the same level as a humanoid in terms of mental and emotional intelligence and capabilities. As Veph said, Blizz could just go for the rule of cool and not pay any attention to the lore, which is what they've been doing and are seen doing with this upcoming xpac.
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Re: Dragonflight is the perfect time for Tamable DRAGONKIN pets for hunters

Unread post by SylviaDragon »

their taming rules have always been pretty wishy-washy. Nalak and Tsulong were made tamable despite their very clear human levels of intelligence so I think it could happen and hope it will. there are other instances of players being able to tame speaking animals as well, such as the green chimera in Azshara. I feel like them caving on the cloud serpents is a good sign honestly because despite them not being connected in wow lore, people know cloud serpents as dragons outside of the game.
I really don't think the lore argument holds up too well against the contradictions of wow mechanics anyway. I was given a red dragon egg as a quest trinket. I have several sentient dragon battle pets that are fulfilling the same role in pet battles that a hunter pet fulfills in pve. somehow using dragon child solders to farm up pet tokens is not questioned but having a dragon that is working with me to save the world from the latest Big Bad is considered crazy. I have dozens of dragon mounts, including many that should be very lore incompatible, such as my twilight/black/chromatic dragons. There is no lore explanation for why my enemies are happy to be my personal taxi. for some reason everyone is happy to accept mounts but say hunter pets are different. I guess it because we cast "tame" on them.
I think it would be awesome if there was some sort of special quest or rep reward that gives you a book of dragon taming with the lore behind it being that you have proven yourself to the dragon flights and can now go out and team up with (tame) dragons. They could even make some really cool challenge tames/ dragon raising quests out of it! You have to prove yourself to the dragon!
and if straight up dragons are a no-go there are still lots of other options. Mechanical dragons, those sin eater things in the Maw, Sprite Darters, possibly undead dragons. And possibly proto drakes, who seem to have varying amounts of intelligence. (i mean i doubt that all protos are smarter than Tsulong or Nalak)
i know there are some people who will dig in their heels regardless of the argument, but personally i think that game mechanic wise, there has always been a double standard, and lore wise there is still wiggle room- so im keeping my fingers crossed!

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DannyGreen
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Re: Dragonflight is the perfect time for Tamable DRAGONKIN pets for hunters

Unread post by DannyGreen »

Game mechanic wise, I think it's fine.
Like i said before loads of animals are smart we can tame.
But I understand some people wanting them to stay special.

On other hands, there are plenty of dragons who in lore are tamed by dragon riders.
Be it in a nice way or not, I doubt they are all that smart if they are happily staying in horse pens.

All they need to do is say "Oh yer, these are feral dragons" BAM instant solution.
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Re: Dragonflight is the perfect time for Tamable DRAGONKIN pets for hunters

Unread post by ace_of_hearth »

Valnaaros wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 7:32 pm I just don't see it happening. Most dragons are sentient/sapient, and a new retcon with Dragonflight is that even Proto Drakes are sentient/sapient. In general, things which are sentient/sapient and are tameable are the exceptions and not the standard.
If we can ride them all day, we can battle with them side by side.
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Re: Dragonflight is the perfect time for Tamable DRAGONKIN pets for hunters

Unread post by Pokcmvmxckm »

the Sentient Mechanostrider is tameable, it even talks to us. Sentient is in its name so that should not be a limiting factor for taming, it could be as simple as a book called "Draconic Dictionary for Dummies," that lets us have a conversation with the dragons to let us tame them. Could also bake it into the Dragon riding mechanic, letting hunters use the customizable dragon mount as a pet when not mounted, kinda like Hati's Ironspine Protocol item, however this feels very unlikely to happen.

Either way, I just want a Dragon friend to kill things and to gank Alliance with.
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Re: Dragonflight is the perfect time for Tamable DRAGONKIN pets for hunters

Unread post by Bambu »

We are already bonding with a dragon as part of the dragon riding system. What's the difference between that and taming one? All classes are gonna have a personal dragon companion in lore/story, it's not at all far fetched or lore breaking now for hunters to fight alongside one.

I can understand not flooding our stables with them, but like, being able to bond with at least one or two would be thematic and fulfill the fantasy a lot of us want.
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Unread post by worgpower »

We saw lots of beasts in the trailers that are dragonlike, but I know it’s harder to pretend that we tamed a dragon, but wings or without can still be called a dragon, like cloud serpents as well, hopefully razorwings and soul eaters will be tameable on this xpac due to their dragonlike looks
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Unread post by Maizou »

I stand by my thought - allow us to tame dragons, but only after a questline, that will function similar to the books we have for other species.

In said questline, we learn to befriend dragonkin and create a kinship. Then from then on, if we get a "tameable" dragon, for gameplay purposes, it acts like a pet/tame, but lore wise, we're just befriending them and making them our companion - no different than the dragon we ride on.
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DannyGreen
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Re: Dragonflight is the perfect time for Tamable DRAGONKIN pets for hunters

Unread post by DannyGreen »

Still think it would be easier to just slap a bunch of Dumb dragons in there and call it a day. Call them a primitive batch.
The only people I feel that will really care is RP realms.

Though I am curious about the whole dragon riding system, are these just weird chimeric dragons we are surgically playing with or dragons can just magically change their skulls now.
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Re: Dragonflight is the perfect time for Tamable DRAGONKIN pets for hunters

Unread post by WerebearGuy »

The higher ups at Microsoft-Activision-Blizzard are missing something very obvious here; tamable dragons means more people will want to play hunter, which means more people will play the game in general, which means more money overall. Every reason for not being able to tame dragons is just a stubborn excuse at this point.
- Intelligence: We can tame intelligent creatures. Just because most are animals doesn't mean they aren't smart. Hell, raptors craft jewelry and build tribes, unless they retconned that.
- Precedence: Cloud Serpents are dragons. There is no argument here, and no barrel deep enough to scrape for one.
- Lore: We killed Robot Satan. ROBOT. SATAN. Lore means jack diddly now, especially after Shadowlands.
- Resources: I know it's not a simple switch to flip, but literally everything is already there. Put em in Ferocity or Tenacity, give them a breath attack like the chimera (but doesn't suck), don't limit them to BM, and bam. Dragon pet.
- Et Cetera: I can debunk that too. I'm just too blank in the head to write more examples.

As for the riding system, I like to think the different looks are just blue dragons giving them fancy appearances, and that the default appearance is the canon appearance at all times. Considering we killed Nefarian twice, I doubt he'll be back a third time to teach us how to do dragon cosmetic surgery. As funny as that would be, anyway.

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Name the game these characters are from, and I'll be amazed.

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DannyGreen
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Re: Dragonflight is the perfect time for Tamable DRAGONKIN pets for hunters

Unread post by DannyGreen »

Well we got the weird dra... drakoni... thats not right.
Dragther? THE BLOODELF DRAGONS!
they're pretty much that, so could probably bring some cosmetic dragon butcher i'm all for that.
Everythin else I completely agree with werebearguy.
The whole idea of "Oh they smart" is such a weak excuse.
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Re: Dragonflight is the perfect time for Tamable DRAGONKIN pets for hunters

Unread post by Wain »

We've had this debate so many times now that I decided to stay out of it this time. I disagree that regular, sentient drakes should ever be tameable (beastly, or animal-like dragonkin are fine), and I'm afraid that nothing I've read has convinced me otherwise.

What made me decide to post is that I want to say that while I'm not in support of dragons being tameable, I hope we see a revamp of the "drakeadon" model in this expansion, with more colours. The dragon isles would be the perfect place for it. The original appeared in BWL as a chromatic version that was the result of Nefarian's experiments into creating a chromatic dragonflight. The theme of Dragonflight reveals that dragon experimentation was carried out by Nefarian's father, Deathwing, at a much earlier time point and it's perfectly feasible that non-chromatic versions of the drakeadon existed on the Dragon Isles. Cross fingers :)
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Re: Dragonflight is the perfect time for Tamable DRAGONKIN pets for hunters

Unread post by Tsukina »

Wain wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:33 pm We've had this debate so many times now that I decided to stay out of it this time. I disagree that regular, sentient drakes should ever be tameable (beastly, or animal-like dragonkin are fine), and I'm afraid that nothing I've read has convinced me otherwise.

What made me decide to post is that I want to say that while I'm not in support of dragons being tameable, I hope we see a revamp of the "drakeadon" model in this expansion, with more colours.
You mean a "drakeadon" of the blue flight, of the red flight, etc?
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DannyGreen
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Re: Dragonflight is the perfect time for Tamable DRAGONKIN pets for hunters

Unread post by DannyGreen »

Nah, Drakeadon like the species Chromaggus is.
The dragon corehound thing.

I agree with wain though. I am all for "dumb" beast dragons the non sapient ones. You can kind of excuse things like the talking animals as pets, in the same way you can excuse there being like 1000 spirit beasts around y'know? Whats the term "Suspension of disbelief" or something to explain why the one of a kind garrosh dinosaur is owned by 100s of hunters.

But I don't think we should be going around taming random blue dragonflight, that's pretty messed up.
Dumb blue protodrakes, sure.
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