Wishlist for Hunter Pet System Changes in 10.0

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Boudica79
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Re: Wishlist for Hunter Pet System Changes in 10.0

Unread post by Boudica79 »

I'd like to see an overhaul to the stable system. With the new expansion there's bound to be many new pets we'll want and just increasing stable slots again is going to make finding that one pet out of possibly hundreds in the stable, tricky....to say the least.
Maybe we could get a quest right at the start of the expansion (or better yet, when we first learn to tame our 2nd pet) to speak to the stable master and learn a "virtual stables" type of thing.
Think something like the stables in the garrison that allowed us to tame and eventually earn mounts from it.
In both of the Dalaran's you can see random pets in the stables when you go in to talk to the stable master so why not just remove the limiter on it and have it give a list of the pets we have already tamed instead
While I get this may make some hunters feel like we're turning into pokemon collectors (you sent Gaara to the professors lab) it's a good thing for those of us who enjoy taming pets for their looks/rarity/any other reason
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GormanGhaste
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Re: Wishlist for Hunter Pet System Changes in 10.0

Unread post by GormanGhaste »

A pet stable would be a great new option for our garrisons! More likely would be a change for the stable master UI that would allow us to search by name or family.

Edit: or what if the garrison stable allowed us to switch btwn mounts and hunter pets?
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Re: Wishlist for Hunter Pet System Changes in 10.0

Unread post by Rawr »

Anyone remember the old Hati customizations? One let you ride your pet Hati, I want that as an option for all pets that have mount rigs. Most have had mount rigs or were given mount rigs when the model was updated (looking at you Tall Striders). So it shouldn't be that hard to have a quest give us an item that lets us do it. I miss cool class quests, well class quests in general. :| Also I kinda just want to ride around on my pets. :D :mrgreen:

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bepples
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Re: Wishlist for Hunter Pet System Changes in 10.0

Unread post by bepples »

6 years in and Blizzard still evidently has no direction or plan for melee Survival :D

Note to Blizz: if you can't properly reconcile the baseline class talent tree with SV and have to make special exceptions unlike every other class in the game, maybe your core design philosophy (...whatever the hell that is at this point) behind SV is bad.
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Re: Wishlist for Hunter Pet System Changes in 10.0

Unread post by worgpower »

bepples wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:32 pm 6 years in and Blizzard still evidently has no direction or plan for melee Survival :D

Note to Blizz: if you can't properly reconcile the baseline class talent tree with SV and have to make special exceptions unlike every other class in the game, maybe your core design philosophy (...whatever the hell that is at this point) behind SV is bad.
That’s the problem, the idea is amazing but it wasn’t executed very well for a majority of players. I feel like dual wielding would of felt necessary for the spec, but at the same time I like using a harpoon to kill foes
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Re: Wishlist for Hunter Pet System Changes in 10.0

Unread post by ace_of_hearth »

I hope the pet companion node in the BM talent tree is a choice node. The other choice would be something along the line that increases the pet's critical damage by 25% and the pet has all 3 family buffs; the stam, speed and leech buff.
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Re: Wishlist for Hunter Pet System Changes in 10.0

Unread post by Aweena »

i have a few wishes but they are minor and some people may not like em but i miss feeding my pets to keep them happy make feed pet actually useful again.

pet care this is more a rp flavor or for the heck of it thing but let us be able to care for our pets with a toy or ability where you might be grooming the pet could add a tiny buff either +1 health or a total non buff like the dude brull fist bump.

i agree with the give back the ability to make a pet the spec you want it to be as it was a lot more diverse to see hunters run around with the pet they loved, its not a lot of wishes i often play with what ever pet i like cause im not min maxing and not hardcore but what made me love hunters has long since been removed it started with the feed pet and loyalty being cut out to pets being standardized to now being limited to finding the right family and not having any real options for the pet.

there will always be that one pet doing 0000,00001% better than others but thats for the really hardcore people the rest of us can live with having free choices on spec family and fun.

sorry for the ramble age and adhd has me not being able to focus as much anymore.

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Re: Wishlist for Hunter Pet System Changes in 10.0

Unread post by Valnaaros »

Blizz posted that they will not be making Survival into a range spec or make it possible through talents to have a viable ranged survival subspec.
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Re: Wishlist for Hunter Pet System Changes in 10.0

Unread post by ace_of_hearth »

I wish that the Pet summoned from Companion Pet talent matches with the placement of our summoned beast; for example, the 1st Call Pet slot would make Pet Companion summon a pet from the first slot from our stable, and the 2nd call pet slot summons the 2nd stabled pet, the third pet slot active summons the third stabled pet, and so on. So with this idea, we can automatically match the companion pet with our current active pet.

PLS BLIZZ
Last edited by ace_of_hearth on Sat Jul 23, 2022 7:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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DannyGreen
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Re: Wishlist for Hunter Pet System Changes in 10.0

Unread post by DannyGreen »

I dont think SV should go ranged really. MM is the petless range BM is the pet range. That's good enough.
SV would benefit from Duel wielding though if they are insisting on this weird pseudo ranged crap. Unless for some reason our shots never use ranged weapons. Then it's gonna be... weird seeing that lil diddy crossbow every 2 seconds.
Maybe at least a glyph to let us change the crossbow to a ranged weapon of choice.

I cant be bothered makin a weird weapon swap macro while weapon swapping is still on the gcd.
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Re: Wishlist for Hunter Pet System Changes in 10.0

Unread post by Tahchi »

ace_of_hearth wrote: Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:23 pm I wish that the Pet summoned from Companion Pet talent mathes with the placement of our summoned beast; for example the 1st Call Pet slot would make Pet Companion to summon pet from the first slot from our stable, the 2nd call pet slot summons the 2nd stabled pet, the third pet slot active summons the third stabled pet, and go on. That where, we can automatically match the companion pet with our current active pet.

PLS BLIZZ
That would be nice yeah.

I'd also like to see a bit more control over the pets we summon with Dire Beast and talents that proc Dire Beast summons and even something like Stampede.
Maybe have small checkboxes on all the stable slots and those selected/checked would be the pool that the Dire Beast summons are picked from.
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Re: Wishlist for Hunter Pet System Changes in 10.0

Unread post by Ana »

ace_of_hearth wrote: Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:23 pm I wish that the Pet summoned from Companion Pet talent mathes with the placement of our summoned beast; for example the 1st Call Pet slot would make Pet Companion to summon pet from the first slot from our stable, the 2nd call pet slot summons the 2nd stabled pet, the third pet slot active summons the third stabled pet, and go on. That where, we can automatically match the companion pet with our current active pet.

PLS BLIZZ
I always thought the gadget we got for hati to change looks should be a toy and work on all pets.

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Re: Wishlist for Hunter Pet System Changes in 10.0

Unread post by ace_of_hearth »

Maria wrote: Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:21 am
ace_of_hearth wrote: Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:23 pm I wish that the Pet summoned from Companion Pet talent mathes with the placement of our summoned beast; for example the 1st Call Pet slot would make Pet Companion to summon pet from the first slot from our stable, the 2nd call pet slot summons the 2nd stabled pet, the third pet slot active summons the third stabled pet, and go on. That where, we can automatically match the companion pet with our current active pet.

PLS BLIZZ
I always thought the gadget we got for hati to change looks should be a toy and work on all pets.
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Re: Wishlist for Hunter Pet System Changes in 10.0

Unread post by GormanGhaste »

I would love pet transmog as well!
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Re: Wishlist for Hunter Pet System Changes in 10.0

Unread post by ace_of_hearth »

ace_of_hearth wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:54 pm I hope the pet companion node in the BM talent tree is a choice node. The other choice would be something along the line that increases the pet's critical damage by 25% and the pet has all 3 family buffs; the stam, speed and leech buff.
Another idea would a choice node named "The Charging Behemoth" or something. Your pet's critical damage is increased by 3% for each enemy within 10yards stacks up to 10 times, and your pet learns the "Blood of Rhino" talent. If your pet already knows the talent. it will learn "trample".
bepples
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Re: Wishlist for Hunter Pet System Changes in 10.0

Unread post by bepples »

DannyGreen wrote: Sat Jul 23, 2022 4:19 am I dont think SV should go ranged really. MM is the petless range BM is the pet range. That's good enough.
SV would benefit from Duel wielding though if they are insisting on this weird pseudo ranged crap. Unless for some reason our shots never use ranged weapons. Then it's gonna be... weird seeing that lil diddy crossbow every 2 seconds.
Maybe at least a glyph to let us change the crossbow to a ranged weapon of choice.

I cant be bothered makin a weird weapon swap macro while weapon swapping is still on the gcd.
This really isn't good enough. The game's representation of ranged weapon archetypes is severely lacking and a big part of that is losing ranged SV. With BM focused mainly on pets that means we effectively have the entire universe of ranged weapon archetypes crammed into one spec: MM. It's not reasonable at all to have gone for this approach just to fit in yet another melee spec in a game increasingly full of melee specs; especially when that melee spec seems to be mostly defined around leaning on and borrowing from BM's existing pet identity. And it clearly hasn't worked out well. I don't think that's just a case of "good idea, bad execution". It seems like it was just a bad idea all along.

What we had before made sense. We had MM for the long range sharpshooting/sniping approach and SV for the utilitarian special munitions approach. Those were two appreciably different ways of representing ranged weapons just like Arms and Fury are both appreciably different ways of approaching the melee weapons master/berserker approach. Being able to have those as separate design spaces with their own iterative design paths was valuable to the class. I don't think "BM knockoff but melee this time" is valuable. Why not just represent that via a BM talent option? It also feels like it falls short of the actual purpose of a specialisation in WoW i.e. building on a core class rather than deviating from it.

Now what we have is everything watered down and crammed into MM while SV flounders expansion after expansion while it mostly just copies from BM. I think it takes a ton of melee favouritism to look at this situation and call melee Survival a success.
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Re: Wishlist for Hunter Pet System Changes in 10.0

Unread post by DannyGreen »

If you're that desperate to get another ranged hunter spec with dot's back. Why not just bite the bullet and make dark rangers. call it a day.
Makes The dark ranger roleplayers happy, Sv gets to stay the rexxar build and you get all your fancy dot stuff.

I like sv, It's fun.
We got some good tier set bonuses this time, and I like throwing bombs at people while being up close. So far Floundering feels a lil disingenuous all our rough patches are purely from borrowed power crap. We get something that becomes core to the build, we get to top dps last patch. People who don't play SV Reeeeeee that they are not optimal op builds no more, then they remove all the borrowed power and we end up missing half our kit.

Hopefully DF fixes it. -shrug-

Side note, say sv was unique back in the day as much as you like. I could only tell you the difference between a SV and MM when you got into their dead zone. Other than that. They were just a turret like MM.
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Re: Wishlist for Hunter Pet System Changes in 10.0

Unread post by worgpower »

I always thought old survival was like MM that was more dot oriented, it didn’t seem too different compared to the other specs which all used pets regardless, the new survival may be horrible or weird to some, but I main the spec and it’s a lot of fun, maintaining serpent sting and bomb dots while letting my pet do some damage
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Re: Wishlist for Hunter Pet System Changes in 10.0

Unread post by bepples »

DannyGreen wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:43 am Sv gets to stay the rexxar build
It's hardly Rexxar because it uses a spear and bombs while all its pet stuff is just watered down and lifted from BM. BM's existence makes a separate Rexxar spec for Hunters pointless. We already have a pet spec with all the things Rexxar actually used from Warcraft 3 like Dire Beast and Stampede. All they would need to make is a talented melee stance. There's no reason to have a separate spec for that when it ultimately ends up as confused as SV is now.
DannyGreen wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:43 am We got some good tier set bonuses this time, and I like throwing bombs at people while being up close. So far Floundering feels a lil disingenuous all our rough patches are purely from borrowed power crap. We get something that becomes core to the build, we get to top dps last patch. People who don't play SV Reeeeeee that they are not optimal op builds no more, then they remove all the borrowed power and we end up missing half our kit.
Every spec runs into problems with borrowed power being taken away. I'd argue BM got hit with it the hardest this expansion. Look how poor BM's AoE is. A big part of the reason is that in Legion and BFA BM's AoE was propped up by borrowed power while the replacements it got this expansion were either not spec-specific or bad enough to not matter.

I don't know how you figure SV is any different. The tier set is just another borrowed power in a long line of borrowed powers. There's nothing fundamentally different about it. The only thing that's different is the absurd sky-high tuning. +80% to Wildfire Bomb is and always was a ludicrous number; especially for that ability. It's like something you'd hear out of an early beta test like how that Soulforge Embers legendary was ludicrously overpowered for much of the Shadowlands beta. Slapping on haphazard, crazy overtuning is not a substitute for good spec design. It's worth pointing out that according to raiderIO there are almost as many BM Hunters in M+ as SV Hunters despite BM being way worse; that's a big hint that much of the Hunter class is avoiding SV in spite of the damage. Yes it's true for MM too.
DannyGreen wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:43 am Hopefully DF fixes it. -shrug-
DF fixes the part where Blizzard keeps depending on temporary borrowed power... as long as the DF tier sets aren't as earthshattering as those of this tier. But it doesn't seem to have fundamentally fixed anything about SV. It's no secret that the SV tree is by far the worst of every tree released so far. It has the most three-point nodes, the least actives with the few it does have mostly being uninspired, the most nonsense placements, etc. They're fixing a lot of these problems but it's mostly tweaking a fundamentally underwhelming tree and they would have to basically rework it right out of the gate to make it any good.

A big problem is they're clearly depending on bringing back old ideas and they don't have anything to fall back on with SV. Any candidate mechanic the spec has historically had is either a) repulsive and generally hated (e.g. trap-oriented damage from Legion) or b) locked up in ranged Survival and no longer making sense for melee Survival.

They're also dealing with a small and extremely fractured playerbase. Everyone and their aunt has an opinion of what SV should be. You have people asking for ranged DPS, melee DPS, tank, healer (yes, really), and everything in between and 100% of them swear up and down that "Survival" specifically implies their vision of the spec. You have people who love Wildfire Bomb, you have people who want it outright removed (that seems to be the stance of most of the SV channel in Trueshot Lodge). Some want less melee, some want to be fully melee. Some want to be more like BM and heavily want the pet, some want Lone Wolf. Blizzard seems to be trying to partially please everyone at once but ultimately not pleasing anyone.

This is what I mean when I say SV is floundering. There's no direction, no unified feedback, no agreement of what the spec should be or where it should go, while the spec just seems to be in maintenance mode/managed decline since BFA. Then people like me get sad because we look back to 10 years ago in late Cata/going into MoP and, truly, this was NOT the reality back then. Survival was much more highly regarded and widely enjoyed, and it had clarity in its design. Feels like we've come a long way from then and not in a good way.
DannyGreen wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:43 am Side note, say sv was unique back in the day as much as you like. I could only tell you the difference between a SV and MM when you got into their dead zone. Other than that. They were just a turret like MM.
What, because the SV would crit 20% more often with Raptor Strike?

The differences came from the ranged toolkit and you could tell them apart because when attacked by an MM Hunter you would get hit from afar by casted Aimed Shots + Chimera Shot for chunks of the health pool at a time, while when fighting an SV Hunter you would get lit up with debuffs and slowly lose all your HP while they kite you in circles. I view it as more or less the same distinction as Affliction v.s. Destruction, or Assassination v.s. Subtlety. The parallels are there; a spec focused around sustained rot damage v.s. one focused around moments of burst damage.
worgpower wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:04 pm I always thought old survival was like MM that was more dot oriented, it didn’t seem too different compared to the other specs which all used pets regardless, the new survival may be horrible or weird to some, but I main the spec and it’s a lot of fun, maintaining serpent sting and bomb dots while letting my pet do some damage
So it's still a dot spec and it still uses pets, it's just melee this time. That strikes as using melee as a tokenistic difference which is never a good sign.

Personally, I really don't like how much SV leans on BM's identity. It's getting ridiculous and it seems there's a faction of players who want them to double down on this especially here on Petopia. I can't take the whole "we made SV melee to make it unique" line seriously when there's immense design pressure to basically turn it into melee BM. Whereas back in the ranged SV days it got more and more different from BM/MM each expansion until the point where in WoD it shared very little outside of the base class utilities.
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