Neutering of BM spec? (removal of families, etc)

skillshott
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Re: Neutering of BM spec? (removal of families, etc)

Unread post by skillshott »

CrankyClaw wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 1:06 pm
Maria wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:57 pm Well i like barrage but then again when I played i played solo. Dont care for grp or raids so can't say what would make bm good in those contents. I can only comment on what I do play ;)
No offense, but that's part of the problem. Many of the voices on this are from solo/casual players who rarely if ever group, and certainly aren't doing progression content.

There's certainly nothing wrong with that playstyle, but suggestions need to be made that make BM viable at all levels. BM is in a bad place right now, and neutering it more isn't going to help.

(Where did I put my shadow priest.. I feel I might need her....)
Yeah this is a problem, and I think why so many on here are in favour of making all pets do all things. If you raid do pvp, higher level mythics and solo content then you end up using a wide variety of pets, and so you have no need to have all pets do everything becuase you use different pets all the time.
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Re: Neutering of BM spec? (removal of families, etc)

Unread post by skillshott »

Maria wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:01 pm I think solo players should have just as much say as those who do grp and Raids.
We play the game too and our playstyle matters too.
Not sure if it ever be viable but the ideal to me is to play the entire game solo with npcs in your grp like ff14 is aiming for.
I respect others like mythics and end game progression but it's just not me. I enjoy playing my own paste and I always enjoyed solocontent and "story" way more than end game progression.
If it were up to me arena and mythics +n should be seperate games where ppl who wanted to could compete with others. It's more of a esport thing than it is mmorpg

But that's just me.
Anyways back to topic. Always played bm, even before exotics were a thing. Always will play bm
But you should think about whether or not your issues are a result of the game being flawed in some way or of you not playing the game as it was intended to be played. To explain, if there was a player who wanted the PVP gear looks but didn't ever want to do PVP I think we could all agree that said players playstyle is at fault for why he isnt getting the rewards he wants not the game. Or even more aptly, say there is a warlock who only does solo content and is annoyed they only use their felgaurd/voidwalker 99% of the time, we would all agree that's the fault of the player not the game. I think your want to have pet family barriers be broken down is more fault of your playstyle, then the fault of a bad pet system. The hunter pet system is a spread of tools given to the hunter and each one has specific scenarios where they are best used, if your playstyle basically encompasses 1 scenario idk why everyone else needs to change becuase of that.
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Re: Neutering of BM spec? (removal of families, etc)

Unread post by Ana »

I justo want to play it my way :)
As im not playing atm i got no other comments

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Re: Neutering of BM spec? (removal of families, etc)

Unread post by skillshott »

DannyGreen wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:27 pm
"Being fine with BM being trash means I don't raid. Might be ok for you.. not for me."

I may be casual but I still do the content, Only reason I haven't raided this expansion is because I find the story pathetic and don't feel attached to any of it. But that's another subject.

My recommendations do reflect my personal views much like your own, dismissing everyones claims due to your views on playstyle is arguing in bad faith (hope I used that right) When I'm playing BM and I need to progress I feel like unless I have a tank or pocket healer and want to have my pet survive I need to play Clefthoof because blood of the rhino is mandatory to keep pets up at higher level content (solo heroic/mythics, higher torghast floors, mage tower)
Not gonna lie im pressing X for doubt when you said this, ive done a solid amount of heroic raiding, some mythic and a lot of m+ and think I can count on one hand the times when my pets have died before me in a non wipe attempt especially in modern pve almost no boss/mob aoe actually affects pets. Also in terms of survivability you really need natures blessing.
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Re: Neutering of BM spec? (removal of families, etc)

Unread post by skillshott »

Maria wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:29 pm I justo want to play it my way :)
As im not playing atm i got no other comments
I get that but to that I say why dont you just use what ever pet you want regardless, since you are a solo player it doesn't matter what pet you use. It doesnt seem fair that you make me regress to using 1 pet every month down from the 3-4 a week just so you can feel like you are playing a game more optimally that you aren't even trying to play optimally in the first place.
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Re: Neutering of BM spec? (removal of families, etc)

Unread post by Ana »

I got no influence over the games development...
We both have different wishes but lets leave it at that

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Re: Neutering of BM spec? (removal of families, etc)

Unread post by DannyGreen »

skillshott wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:35 pm
Not gonna lie im pressing X for doubt when you said this, ive done a solid amount of heroic raiding, some mythic and a lot of m+ and think I can count on one hand the times when my pets have died before me in a non wipe attempt especially in modern pve almost no boss/mob aoe actually affects pets. Also in terms of survivability you really need natures blessing.
Yer because in heroic raiding or mythics the only time your pet will have aggro is when the tank dies and you're just desperately using them to distract the boss while you run or your FD goes off CD

I'm talking more solo content, Torghast, mage tower, Elite farming etc.
Unless you manage to get a massive chunk of Torghast powers that make your pet almost invincible. Your pet is going to eat shit. So use the Clefthoof to make the healing ontop of the healing effects more powerful.
Jailers gauntlet is a good example of this, at a certain point, unless you have the Aspect of the turtle buff and the refresh aspect on FD. You aren't beating the gauntlet.
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Re: Neutering of BM spec? (removal of families, etc)

Unread post by Tahchi »

skillshott wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:09 pmBM is in a bad place right now
In what way do you mean that?
In a sheer DPS output way?
I hope so...

Because I thoroughly enjoy playing BM and I wouldn't want that playstyle messed with too much, honestly.
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Re: Neutering of BM spec? (removal of families, etc)

Unread post by CrankyClaw »

skillshott wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:35 pm
DannyGreen wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:27 pm
"Being fine with BM being trash means I don't raid. Might be ok for you.. not for me."

I may be casual but I still do the content, Only reason I haven't raided this expansion is because I find the story pathetic and don't feel attached to any of it. But that's another subject.

My recommendations do reflect my personal views much like your own, dismissing everyones claims due to your views on playstyle is arguing in bad faith (hope I used that right) When I'm playing BM and I need to progress I feel like unless I have a tank or pocket healer and want to have my pet survive I need to play Clefthoof because blood of the rhino is mandatory to keep pets up at higher level content (solo heroic/mythics, higher torghast floors, mage tower)
Not gonna lie im pressing X for doubt when you said this, ive done a solid amount of heroic raiding, some mythic and a lot of m+ and think I can count on one hand the times when my pets have died before me in a non wipe attempt especially in modern pve almost no boss/mob aoe actually affects pets. Also in terms of survivability you really need natures blessing.
Yep. There are very few spots in raids or M+ where pets die. Usually it's because the tank got feared or something. But raids/M+ is where you bring the pet for either the stam boost, speed boost, or for hero/lust.
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Re: Neutering of BM spec? (removal of families, etc)

Unread post by CrankyClaw »

Tahchi wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:55 am
skillshott wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:09 pmBM is in a bad place right now
In what way do you mean that?
In a sheer DPS output way?
I hope so...

Because I thoroughly enjoy playing BM and I wouldn't want that playstyle messed with too much, honestly.
Yes, DPS output. Wowhead posts are article every week showing what classes suck.
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Re: Neutering of BM spec? (removal of families, etc)

Unread post by CrankyClaw »

DannyGreen wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:00 pm
skillshott wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:35 pm
Not gonna lie im pressing X for doubt when you said this, ive done a solid amount of heroic raiding, some mythic and a lot of m+ and think I can count on one hand the times when my pets have died before me in a non wipe attempt especially in modern pve almost no boss/mob aoe actually affects pets. Also in terms of survivability you really need natures blessing.
Yer because in heroic raiding or mythics the only time your pet will have aggro is when the tank dies and you're just desperately using them to distract the boss while you run or your FD goes off CD

I'm talking more solo content, Torghast, mage tower, Elite farming etc.
Unless you manage to get a massive chunk of Torghast powers that make your pet almost invincible. Your pet is going to eat shit. So use the Clefthoof to make the healing ontop of the healing effects more powerful.
Jailers gauntlet is a good example of this, at a certain point, unless you have the Aspect of the turtle buff and the refresh aspect on FD. You aren't beating the gauntlet.
True, and that's why Clefthoof is the answer 99% of the time solo. (And with no Animal Companion).

That's why I want to see Blood of the Rhino made a tenacity baseline ability. (or, give us some basic pet talents to pick from).
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Re: Neutering of BM spec? (removal of families, etc)

Unread post by skillshott »

CrankyClaw wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:03 am True, and that's why Clefthoof is the answer 99% of the time solo. (And with no Animal Companion).

That's why I want to see Blood of the Rhino made a tenacity baseline ability. (or, give us some basic pet talents to pick from).
But 99% of the time in solo play you dont have to use the most optimal pet. Outside of torghast and the mage tower any pet will do just make sure to use mend pet.
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Re: Neutering of BM spec? (removal of families, etc)

Unread post by worgpower »

The biggest issue is ferocity uses leech, and it heals more than spirit mend, whenever I bring out a ferocity pet, I cast mend pet less than half the amount I would cast on other specs, survival hunter mastery has a little heal so it makes it a bit better, but not good enough, ferocity is a big focus saver, and I hope they convert from specs into a single talent tree to choose from, like leech, pathfinding, etc
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Re: Neutering of BM spec? (removal of families, etc)

Unread post by DannyGreen »

Idealy, you want to use ferocity pets in pve or group content (pvp excluded)
that passive leech will do more for you than 5% stam or the minor defensive. so even doing something like slapping Blood of the rhino on all tank pets won't change the benefit positioning.

I've used the leech self heal to keep myself topped up through passive damage ticks, this coming from a SV where I'm up in the face of everything. I've never found a situation where a passive 10% leech is not favourable over a passive 5% hp and a 20% dr for 6 seconds.

But we're not actually getting anywhere with the conversation anymore.
I think we can all agree. Pet spec choice is just vastly superior to non pet choices which locks you in to few options. Lack of options is a bad thing.

Not Removing things or passive pet families, just a flat line of. Let us choose the ferocity cunning or tenacity bonus.
Frankly I'd say do this, AND rework the families.

FEROCITY!
Boost the leech to 15% (Bm bonus ALL Ferocity get eternal guardian)

CUNNING!
Passive movement speed increased to 15%, passive stun/cc reduction by 15% Non stacking (Bm bonus all cunning get dune strider)

TENACITY!
Stam increased to 15% Passive player DR and healing received by 15% Survival of the fittest boosted to 50%. Honestly a 20% dr is not even worth a gcd (BM bonus All tenacity get blood of the rhino.)

Replacements
Clefthooves now get Gore (the old knockback)
Aqiri get Hive mind (Increases avoidance by 10%)
Stonehounds get Return to stone (reduces physical damage by 100% can't act during this channel 5 seconds) Or something like that.
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