Analysis of new Pet Abilities

[The Insect Man]

Well, some bosses do have specific mechanics where interrupts are needed (General wossname from Ulduar, Deathwhisper in ICC) but, ok, what the hell use is a 1 minute cd interrupt. You're not going to do anything useful with it because you can't reliably fit into an interrupt rotation, and if everyone else screws up then you're not going to be able to get it off in time anyway. A lot of the stuns, disarms, roots, interrupts etc. might still have some utility situationally if only their cds weren't so long - I'm not saying bring them down to a rogue kick or a warrior slam level of cd, but once a minute, or even once every 45 seconds, is pointless. 30 seconds (ergo 21 for a well-specced BM) would make those sort of abilities more reliably available, whilst I would think not overpowering pvp situations.

One might want to see a situation where every family gets one pve buff/debuff ability and one on-use pvp ability, to make the whole set useful to everyone, but that's 2 abilities per family,m and presumably 3 for the exotics, so it would involve a lot of redundancy and a lot of work for Blizzard.

[Worba]

Edit: Do hunters actually have a bleed or a build that uses them?

MM has a bleed, but it isn't really powerful enough to warrant a pet to buff it. The real use of bleed increase is for warriors, rogues and feral druids.

I know it's a bit selfish but when I'm on one of my hunter, if my pet has an AOE buff of some kind, I'd prefer it to be something *I* can benefit from as well, and not something that's largely/entirely meant for others... if I wanted to be all sharing and stuff I'd play my healer...

[Kalliope]

Jaraxxus can be interrupted as well.

I still think it's dumb that a deep BM tenacity pet has a bleed buff. I mean, I get bringing raid buffs, but not one the player doesn't also benefit from.

[Nachtwulf]

Yeah... I mean, my guild has an asston of rogues in it, but they seem to have their own ways of bringing bleeds to the table. Buffs that the raid benefits from should benefit as much of the raid as possible not like...what. Two and a third classes.

[Kalliope]

I'm fine with a bleed-buffing pet, it's just....give BM hunters a bleed too then. Otherwise, they themselves are not benefiting from the buff.

[Ellaran]

Hey, all classes have things that only they benefit from and things others can benefit from, so it makes sense that pets do the same. And having a few benefit is still better than having nothing at all. MM hunters have a bleed, they also have a pet than can help it if they so wish.

And, you know, YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HELP IN RAIDS USING YOUR PETS IN A VARIETY OF SITUATIONS. Sweet mercy, I know that there's been big changes, but some people just seem obsessed with being as negative as possible about everything.

[Kalliope]

Hey, all classes have things that only they benefit from and things others can benefit from, so it makes sense that pets do the same. And having a few benefit is still better than having nothing at all. MM hunters have a bleed, they also have a pet than can help it if they so wish.

And, you know, YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HELP IN RAIDS USING YOUR PETS IN A VARIETY OF SITUATIONS. Sweet mercy, I know that there's been big changes, but some people just seem obsessed with being as negative as possible about everything.

?

I run as a marks hunter. I am PERFECTLY AWARE that running with a hyena will give me a buff that's useful to me as well as the raid.

Usually when a class (or pet!) gives a buff, it benefits that player in addition to the rest of the raid. Look at the other exotic pet buffs. This is the only one that gives a BM hunter NOTHING. As others have pointed out, very few classes (and in the case of hunters, specs) benefit from this buff. It does NOT, therefore, make sense to me that an EXOTIC pet has the buff, and has had the buff since before the pet pass. That's all I was saying.

Feel free to actually read some of my other posts on this forum. I've been supporting the new system from the beginning. You've jumped to a VERY incorrect conclusion about what I was saying, and were a bit rude about it. Hopefully, this clears that up.

[Turgus]

Why they gave the bleed buff to a rhino I will never know.
It made no sense at all. If they gave it to a Hyena for instance, then it would make total sense for a MM hunter to use then, since they do a bit of bleed damage.
But, it is an Exotic pet, only available to BM hunters, who obviously don't have a bleed effect.

To me it seemed like they (Blizzard) had to give hunters "something" after taking away Rhino Bowling.

Ahh... those were the days... sending all sorts of Alliance flying off of the bridge in AV.
It was soo beautiful, that well, just remembering it almost brings a tear to my eye.

Hopefully, Blizzard will take a look at how silly it is for an exotic tenacity pet to have an ability like this, and change it out for something more in-line with what a Rhino would have.
(I mean come on! Look at those Horns!!)

I can't think of any situation in which a BM hunter would use a rhino in which they would take advantage of the bleed debuff.

....Aside from maybe a really overgeared hunter helping out low level guildies run an instance....or a really lame questing group....

~But, back on track!

Blizzard will be taking a look at the pets again, and giving abilities or modifying existing ones to the pets they haven't done anything with as of yet.
I personally think that Rhino's are in this category.

Whatever they give Rhino's, I imagine that it should make everyone happy.
(they have 2 tries, they have to get at least 1 of them right...right?) lol

[Silvarain]

first off, all the rudeness has got to stop, please. lets not turn this wonderful place into the wow forums. i hate that place.

i think that these de/buffs are nice but i cant be happy with them as is because i dont like the BM as it stands now. blizz said that they were "cutting the fat" and giving us "which to pick" talents, but all i see so far is the same old "lower CD here/boost that there" talents. am i one of the few who dont see the "wow" factor? am i one of the few who is underwhelmed so far? i personally dont see where/how these de/buffs will change my hunter game play in a diferent way from what blizz is doing to the game in general. i want more options for my BMer: i was just in icc and switched to SV for the traps against Fang, i forgot about the shared CD between BA and traps and blow the fight for myself lol (no i didnt wipe us lol just i couldve done lots better). i want kinda that in BM what i really want is two pets to worry about but.... anyway. i find it kinda weird that were minor buffers now but whatever as long as the BM tree gives us BMers some work to do.

Edit: all the edits is cause im tired lol

[Kalliope]

Well, BM hunters can definitely dps on the move now, at least as much as any other hunter, but the tree is still lacking a shiny shot of its own, as we've discussed previously.

Maybe it's cause I haven't been BM in ages, but I'm very excited at having a truly massive stable with all sorts of options, plus a more mobile spec to match...but I make a point of going marks in my other spec, so I'm covered in terms of massive button pushing too. At any rate, I'm not disappointed by BM's options, but what do I know?

[Silvarain]

Well, BM hunters can definitely dps on the move now, at least as much as any other hunter, but the tree is still lacking a shiny shot of its own, as we've discussed previously.

Maybe it's cause I haven't been BM in ages, but I'm very excited at having a truly massive stable with all sorts of options, plus a more mobile spec to match...but I make a point of going marks in my other spec, so I'm covered in terms of massive button pushing too. At any rate, I'm not disappointed by BM's options, but what do I know?

hehe you MMer ^_^
i LOVE the bigger stable! BUT (lol) id like to not need the stable master myself. no it wont be that much time spent but we MAY have to go find a S. master from time to time then get summon back to the group we are in at the time...

i dont think it has to be a shot, or should even for BM (Army of Pets!), but more thinkin/attacking options is kinda needed i think (hope i wrote that to mean what im thinkin lol)

[Nimizar]

i think that these de/buffs are nice but i cant be happy with them as is because i dont like the BM as it stands now. blizz said that they were "cutting the fat" and giving us "which to pick" talents, but all i see so far is the same old "lower CD here/boost that there" talents. am i one of the few who dont see the "wow" factor? am i one of the few who is underwhelmed so far?

The "wow factor" for me is Kill Command being a button I want to press, deciding when to convert Frenzy stacks to Focus Fire stacks (assuming that's a choice and not a matter of hitting FF on CD), deciding between Arcane and Cobra as filler shots based on my current focus level and the Wild Hunt change meaning that my pet probably won't be getting saturated with focus even with all the pet regen talents.

Aside from Focus Fire, that's mainly about baseline hunter mechanic changes rather than the BM tree itself, but I'm still looking forward to it. It's why I think the gameplay of the BM spec is shaping up to be in a very nice place, even if the talents aren't setting the world alight.

The hunter trees in general really don't have a lot of flexibility at this stage. MM is in the best place (~4 points free to spend on utility talents), but BM is too full (only 2 points free after getting all the DPS talents), as is SV (counting ISS and Serpent Spread, 32 points can be spent in DPS talents). Having a few too many DPS talents is a far cry from them being totally broken, though.

[Nimizar]

i dont think it has to be a shot, or should even for BM (Army of Pets!), but more thinkin/attacking options is kinda needed i think (hope i wrote that to mean what im thinkin lol)

I think you'll find that Blizzard are hoping Kill Command and Focus Fire fill that role. FF is BM only, and the other two specs only use KC situationally rather than as part of their main rotation.

[Kalliope]

The "wow factor" for me is Kill Command being a button I want to press, deciding when to convert Frenzy stacks to Focus Fire stacks (assuming that's a choice and not a matter of hitting FF on CD), deciding between Arcane and Cobra as filler shots based on my current focus level and the Wild Hunt change meaning that my pet probably won't be getting saturated with focus even with all the pet regen talents.

Ahh, this is a good summary. There's STUFF TO DO as BM now. That to me makes it more like the other specs.

And Sil, I do agree that tracking down stable masters sucks at this point. I feel more compelled than ever to swap pets like crazy (which is, I'm sure, not what Blizz wants us doing), but can't. >_< Maybe they'll let engineers make a remote stable master, thus defeating the purpose of the system!!! (Heh. T_T)

[Mang]

I think the main thing here that makes a lot of these abilities feel useless is that about half of them don't work on bosses. Oh, sure, they're great on (most) trash, but... anything that says 'cast time slow' or 'disarm' or 'interrupt'.... is basically a trash ability when you get to anything that matters.

Now, if Blizzard -changes- how bosses work so that this stuff is actually, you know... pertinent.... then I think a lot of people will be less mad about the changes, but as long as half the pets have a skill that's pretty much worthless for raiding, then people are never going to consider them for end game.

Blizzard seems to be stressing player skill and situational awareness over damage meters, so there's a chance that a lot of bosses will have abilities that are susceptible to interrupts, but with a really small window to do it in to keep players on their toes. DBM of course will take a great deal of the guess work out of it, but still, it's something. Having multiple sources raid wide of reduced cast time or school interrupt and making them useful is a great idea IMO and something worth pursuing for Blizzard.

[Kalliope]

Blizzard seems to be stressing player skill and situational awareness over damage meters, so there's a chance that a lot of bosses will have abilities that are susceptible to interrupts, but with a really small window to do it in to keep players on their toes. DBM of course will take a great deal of the guess work out of it, but still, it's something. Having multiple sources raid wide of reduced cast time or school interrupt and making them useful is a great idea IMO and something worth pursuing for Blizzard.

You'd be surprised how many players don't do their jobs, even with DBM or the game itself (it's amazing how many of the big warnings are actually NOT from DBM) pointing out in BIG RED LETTERS to them that they need to do something.

[Ellaran]

Blizzard seems to be stressing player skill and situational awareness over damage meters, so there's a chance that a lot of bosses will have abilities that are susceptible to interrupts, but with a really small window to do it in to keep players on their toes. DBM of course will take a great deal of the guess work out of it, but still, it's something. Having multiple sources raid wide of reduced cast time or school interrupt and making them useful is a great idea IMO and something worth pursuing for Blizzard.

You'd be surprised how many players don't do their jobs, even with DBM or the game itself (it's amazing how many of the big warnings are actually NOT from DBM) pointing out in BIG RED LETTERS to them that they need to do something.

Don't even get me started on that. Every Onyxia run I've done for the last five months has ended in wipes and the raid dissolving because people ignore "ONYXIA TAKES A DEEP BREATH...". It makes a person want to reach through the screen and smack people.

?

I run as a marks hunter. I am PERFECTLY AWARE that running with a hyena will give me a buff that's useful to me as well as the raid.

Usually when a class (or pet!) gives a buff, it benefits that player in addition to the rest of the raid. Look at the other exotic pet buffs. This is the only one that gives a BM hunter NOTHING. As others have pointed out, very few classes (and in the case of hunters, specs) benefit from this buff. It does NOT, therefore, make sense to me that an EXOTIC pet has the buff, and has had the buff since before the pet pass. That's all I was saying.

Feel free to actually read some of my other posts on this forum. I've been supporting the new system from the beginning. You've jumped to a VERY incorrect conclusion about what I was saying, and were a bit rude about it. Hopefully, this clears that up.

I'm sorry if it felt that way, but I wasn't addressing you specifically and how was it "rude"? I was making an observation on the general feel I got from the entire thread. Sugar-coating everything causes diabetes =3~

[Kalliope]

Don't even get me started on that. Every Onyxia run I've done for the last five months has ended in wipes and the raid dissolving because people ignore "ONYXIA TAKES A DEEP BREATH...". It makes a person want to reach through the screen and smack people.

And that's a mechanic from vanilla WoW! And people STILL fail at it! Zzzz.

I'm sorry if it felt that way, but I wasn't addressing you specifically and how was it "rude"? I was making an observation on the general feel I got from the entire thread. Sugar-coating everything causes diabetes =3~

Oh, that's fine then. It just seemed that you were addressing the point I had made specifically (and by extension, lumped me in with the whiners).

[Ellaran]

And that's a mechanic from vanilla WoW! And people STILL fail at it! Zzzz.

And what's worse, I've seen VETERANS of the game do it. People who've played since WoW first launched, who should damn well know better, stand in the fire because they're obsessed with the DPS meters. Fortunately my ICC runs are usually better, but I've never been able to get past Professor Putricide because of one thing or another, usually because some dummy was being dumb or the raid just didn't have the oomph to beat him.

Oh, that's fine then. It just seemed that you were addressing the point I had made specifically (and by extension, lumped me in with the whiners).

I can understand your concern with Rhinos and their bleed special, but there are a lot of Rhino lovers, and their bleeding buff is useful, being Tenacity notwithstanding. We'll have to see how the DPS between the three pet trees stands, since their only differences now are the talents and the amount of stat increases they get from us. All of the others have abilities that can and will be handy for the various 5-mans and raids, it'll give all of us Hunters more to do than pew=pew

[Kalliope]

And that's a mechanic from vanilla WoW! And people STILL fail at it! Zzzz.

And what's worse, I've seen VETERANS of the game do it. People who've played since WoW first launched, who should damn well know better, stand in the fire because they're obsessed with the DPS meters. Fortunately my ICC runs are usually better, but I've never been able to get past Professor Putricide because of one thing or another, usually because some dummy was being dumb or the raid just didn't have the oomph to beat him.

Yeah, that's a fight that really tests the true clowniness of your raid (Putri). :/ If people don't do what they're supposed to when they're supposed to do it, it's a loss.

I can understand your concern with Rhinos and their bleed special, but there are a lot of Rhino lovers, and their bleeding buff is useful, being Tenacity notwithstanding. We'll have to see how the DPS between the three pet trees stands, since their only differences now are the talents and the amount of stat increases they get from us. All of the others have abilities that can and will be handy for the various 5-mans and raids, it'll give all of us Hunters more to do than pew=pew

Oh believe me, I like that rhinos have a useful raid buff. The problem I'm concerned with could be easily solved by giving BM hunters a bleed of their own, or even giving the rhino one, rather than giving them a different buff. It's just not standard for a buff not to benefit the player bringing the buff. Although hey, look at survival hunters, bringing replenishment. But that's a carried over mechanic, as opposed to BM hunters having an exotic with a bleed, when they themselves never had a bleed.

It's not the biggest issue in the world, so if it slides, meh. There's worse problems that need fixing.