Arcturis :(

[Worba]

There is no end to how far some people will go to be a-holes in this game. Playing on a PVE server certainly reduces the frequency of this kind of behavior but there will always be dedicated jerks.

PvE servers drive me batty because you can just tell that people WANT to be jerks, but the whole non-flagged thing prevents them from doing so...although it does open the door on other ways of griefing that don't involve players actually attacking each other.

Ha, yeah, but that's a bit like saying "locked doors drive me batty because you can just tell that people WANT to take your stuff..."

Of course they do! The only question is, would you rather give them 24/7 access to you, or do your own thing and choose for yourself when/where/how you will interact with them?

[Royi]

So after three days of seven hour camping, and a fifteen hour camp yesterday, Arcturis finally spawned. There was another hunter there when he spawned so I quickly tagged him and began tame. He pulled him off me, and I quickly pulled him back for another tame. With 1.8 seconds left on the tame, Arcturis is pulled off me once again and killed.

Now, this hunter and I were both Alliance and he and I had actually carried out a very civil conversation earlier in the day and he didn't seem like the sort of person that would do something like this. But, appearances can be deceiving and he had seemed like he was trying to get me out of the area several times during the course of the day. He had also told me that the last spawn for Arcturis was the previous day and a Horde hunter had gotten him just before he could. I'd bet anything that he tried this same stunt on him but the Horde hunter was actually successful in the tame. He didn't even say anything afterwards, he just logged out. I sort of actually would have preferred if he had acted like a total prick and gone "lololololol" afterwards. It would have made it even easier to hate him.

At least I got some gold and frostweave, I suppose... I pray Arcturis spawns on the twelve hour mark so I can finally end this but, I'm hellbent on finding him now after this fiasco. In the meantime, I will be working on planning for NaNoWriMo.

If that hunter ever reads this, I'd like him to know: If you hadn't killed him, there would be one less hunter there vying for him today. If you hadn't killed him, I wouldn't have known what an utter prick you were. If you hadn't killed him, I wouldn't be there right now waiting for you to log back on so I can stare daggers through your pixelated body. >:|

Tier i posted this on another forum, in case you didnt read it its a perfect way on what to do in this situation:

Because I'm a nice guy, who loves vengence, i have a great plan for you.

Remember his name, do a paid character name change, start befriending him, and even better join his guild. Work with guild a lot in upcoming expansion, become a raid leader. A few months down the road lead a guild run for something where that hunter shows up. Develop a friendship with him to a point where you actually become REALID friends and even perhaps REALID friends with his family/RL friends too. Talk about WOW and everything on all other characters.. etc... Let a few more months pass.

Lead a new Cata raid as the ML where a rare mount can drop (IE like the Black Drake or Azure Drake... etc). Keep doing these with the guild for weeks/months until that rare mount drops and hopefully he'll win or even better, his Girlfriend or his Son wins it. Ninja it yourself. and say BOOYA THATS FOR STEALING MY ARCTURIS SPAWN YOU JERKFACE!!!!

/ignore player
/gquit


Thats a way of revenge... Revenge is a dish best served cold... Remember that.

[Kalliope]

There is no end to how far some people will go to be a-holes in this game. Playing on a PVE server certainly reduces the frequency of this kind of behavior but there will always be dedicated jerks.

PvE servers drive me batty because you can just tell that people WANT to be jerks, but the whole non-flagged thing prevents them from doing so...although it does open the door on other ways of griefing that don't involve players actually attacking each other.

Ha, yeah, but that's a bit like saying "locked doors drive me batty because you can just tell that people WANT to take your stuff..."

Of course they do! The only question is, would you rather give them 24/7 access to you, or do your own thing and choose for yourself when/where/how you will interact with them?

Not exactly. If you see someone pacing around outside your abode of choice, casing the joint, you can still fire meaningful warning shots at them. There's a chance that you might actually hit them. If there's no danger of them being hit, they're not just going to leave because of the noise.

Being on a PvE server basically means that all of your competition might as well be the same faction you are, since you can't lift a finger against them anyway. They can kill your prospective pets without fear of retaliation. I would never have gotten to tame Theseus on a PvE server, since opposing faction players were killed during his tame. They tried killing me first, but they did also try killing Krush directly. They could not have been stopped on a PvE server. I would have seen him die in front of me a third time, rather than having my baby home. The previous two times, SAME FACTION players killed him at my feet. There was nothing I could do to stop them, short of begging in vain.

Being on a PvE server gives an illusion of security. You don't REALLY get to choose when/where/how you interact with other players. They don't have to kill you directly to grief you, and they don't even have to leave themselves open to retaliation. You can't do anything to prevent what happens; you can only watch.

24/7 access goes both ways, Worba, trust me.

[Worba]

Being on a PvE server gives an illusion of security. You don't REALLY get to choose when/where/how you interact with other players. They don't have to kill you directly to grief you, and they don't even have to leave themselves open to retaliation. You can't do anything to prevent what happens; you can only watch.

Griefing is so much worse on PVP servers, it's not even in the same ballpark - and it stands to reason; yes, sure, on PVE someone can kill your tame and you can't retaliate, but they have to be either really lucky to be there when it spawns, or really hateful to devote that much time to standing there with you for hours on the chance the rare might spawn.

I constantly hear from people on PVP servers complaining about how they were just minding their own business, doing quests or etc, and some kid comes up and ganks them, /lol, /spit, /slap, /corpsecamp etc, yet on the other end of things in PVE-land, yes once in a while I'll hear someone say "damn I wish I could have attacked him" but again - super rare. Most times ppl get pissed at each other on PVE, they both flag, or at least duel it out.

In my experience, the a-holes tend to have pretty short attention spans; unless you've actively done something to piss them they usually lose interest and leave - usually in under a minute, never more than 5 minutes or so and that was a one-off.

Not to say there aren't people out there who actually would commit to spending 5-6 hours sitting next to a complete stranger just to F up his tame, just that most jerks just get bored and leave, which is why soooo much more griefing happens on PVP servers, because quite simply if they want to mess with you, they can - directly, and (pretty much) anywhere and at any time without waiting around for a rare spawn to kill.

[Kalliope]

You don't play on a PvP server yourself then, right, Worba?

Yes, there can be general rudeness and corpse camping and all that junk. But most people on PvP servers EXPECT that and don't complain about it, outside of the occasional time that it gets That Bad.

I've never in my life seen people on a PvE server mutually flag to duke it out. I *have* seen people randomly flag themselves in order to kill some random person who is flagged, which is far more likely to happen on a PvE server than a PvP server, simply because just being flagged means nothing on a PvP server when you're flagged almost all the time.

In my experience, the a-holes tend to have pretty short attention spans; unless you've actively done something to piss them they usually lose interest and leave - usually in under a minute, never more than 5 minutes or so and that was a one-off.

Not to say there aren't people out there who actually would commit to spending 5-6 hours sitting next to a complete stranger just to F up his tame, just that most jerks just get bored and leave, which is why soooo much more griefing happens on PVP servers, because quite simply if they want to mess with you, they can - directly, and (pretty much) anywhere and at any time without waiting around for a rare spawn to kill.

This is exactly why I find the specific griefing of hunters on a PvE server to be worse than the general griefing on a PvP server. On a PvP server, everyone is fair game for griefing. On a PvE server, it's much harder to grief other players, so hunters and their prospective pets are far more likely to become victims.

on PVE someone can kill your tame and you can't retaliate, but they have to be either really lucky to be there when it spawns, or really hateful to devote that much time to standing there with you for hours on the chance the rare might spawn.

The same is true of a PvP server, y'know. The only catch is, you can sometimes kill them before they kill you or your pet.

[Worba]

You don't play on a PvP server yourself then, right, Worba?

Yes, there can be general rudeness and corpse camping and all that junk. But most people on PvP servers EXPECT that and don't complain about it, outside of the occasional time that it gets That Bad.

Of course not - why would I do that to myself? It's a logical assumption that griefers are going to gravitate toward a server where everyone's running around perma-flagged, which is supported by countless gripe posts on the wow forums... you see them constantly, but they're almost incidental because if we use the theft analogy it's like assuming that tons more crap is going to get stolen in a world where there are no locks on doors... and then hearing from tons of people living on that world that yes indeed stuff gets stolen constantly.

This is exactly why I find the specific griefing of hunters on a PvE server to be worse than the general griefing on a PvP server. On a PvP server, everyone is fair game for griefing. On a PvE server, it's much harder to grief other players, so hunters and their prospective pets are far more likely to become victims.

The disconnect here is that we have different expectations and are bothered by different things - to you, a server where anyone can attack you at any time for any reason, is acceptable and not a source of annoyance, e.g. you're comfortable leaving the front door unlocked... and staking it out with a shotgun.

Whereas I prefer to leave my door locked and go off to do other things; I don't even want to have to think about other players unless it's for friendly reasons, because frankly I have a rotten temper and tend to get into the whole retarded Hatfield/McCoy thing if I'm not careful.

Different strokes / different folks.

[Kalliope]

You don't play on a PvP server yourself then, right, Worba?

Yes, there can be general rudeness and corpse camping and all that junk. But most people on PvP servers EXPECT that and don't complain about it, outside of the occasional time that it gets That Bad.

Of course not - why would I do that to myself? It's a logical assumption that griefers are going to gravitate toward a server where everyone's running around perma-flagged, which is supported by countless gripe posts on the wow forums... you see them constantly, but they're almost incidental because if we use the theft analogy it's like assuming that tons more crap is going to get stolen in a world where there are no locks on doors... and then hearing from tons of people living on that world that yes indeed stuff gets stolen constantly.

That's the thing - it IS just an assumption. I've seen some REALLY poor behavior (and foul mouths) from players on PvE servers, both in my own personal experience and from those of others. There's plenty of stories that show that there are griefers on both kinds of servers. To assume that the ones on PvP servers are automatically "worse" just because they're able to do more to you (in some cases) isn't really a fair judgement, since the ones on PvE servers tend to be just as likely to be that bad if they get the chance to. I guess I just factor in intent more than you do.

The funny thing with your analogy is that stuff still gets stolen in your world as well, despite there supposedly being more protection against it with the locks. See what I mean?

The disconnect here is that we have different expectations and are bothered by different things - to you, a server where anyone can attack you at any time for any reason, is acceptable and not a source of annoyance, e.g. you're comfortable leaving the front door unlocked... and staking it out with a shotgun.

Whereas I prefer to leave my door locked and go off to do other things; I don't even want to have to think about other players unless it's for friendly reasons, because frankly I have a rotten temper and tend to get into the whole retarded Hatfield/McCoy thing if I'm not careful.

Different strokes / different folks.

*grin* Exactly! And I don't get too upset if I get robbed while asleep on the job, cause nothing that's taken is of any value anyway.

[Worba]

That's the thing - it IS just an assumption. I've seen some REALLY poor behavior (and foul mouths) from players on PvE servers, both in my own personal experience and from those of others. There's plenty of stories that show that there are griefers on both kinds of servers. To assume that the ones on PvP servers are automatically "worse" just because they're able to do more to you (in some cases) isn't really a fair judgement, since the ones on PvE servers tend to be just as likely to be that bad if they get the chance to. I guess I just factor in intent more than you do.

Way more - my wife is like that too. Me I'm mostly concerned about the end result - intent is useful in determining if you're dealing with a chronic offender, but it's the immediate result of their actions that I focus on primarily.

The funny thing with your analogy is that stuff still gets stolen in your world as well, despite there supposedly being more protection against it with the locks. See what I mean?

Actually that just goes back to my point - having locks (e.g. PVE restrictions) doesn't end all theft (griefing), but it does greatly reduce it, and provide a much more desirable alternative; I mean, there has to be some reason why they're so popular IRL.

*grin* Exactly! And I don't get too upset if I get robbed while asleep on the job, cause nothing that's taken is of any value anyway.

You and I are so different that way!

[Kalliope]

*grin* Exactly! And I don't get too upset if I get robbed while asleep on the job, cause nothing that's taken is of any value anyway.

You and I are so different that way!

The best part is that the offender generally thinks they've gotten away with something valuable, but it's just fool's gold.

Mind you, I did care more about getting randomly ganked in the past, but considering that there are other games where you'd lose experience/levels for dying, well, I can handle a PvP death, which doesn't even cost in repairs!

[Worba]

Mind you, I did care more about getting randomly ganked in the past, but considering that there are other games where you'd lose experience/levels for dying, well, I can handle a PvP death, which doesn't even cost in repairs!

For me it's not so much the loss of tangible assets as the sh!t eating grin on the perp's face and the way my loss has brightened his day...

[Kalliope]

Mind you, I did care more about getting randomly ganked in the past, but considering that there are other games where you'd lose experience/levels for dying, well, I can handle a PvP death, which doesn't even cost in repairs!

For me it's not so much the loss of tangible assets as the sh!t eating grin on the perp's face and the way my loss has brightened his day...

Well, if I'm afk, then I haven't lost anything. If I lose a fair fight, so be it. If I lose an unfair fight, then I know that whatever satisfaction the perp's gotten is just delusional. If they want to be happy with their small win, that's fine by me, cause I can tell that they couldn't've beaten me otherwise.

[Tierkreis]

Tier i posted this on another forum, in case you didnt read it its a perfect way on what to do in this situation:

Because I'm a nice guy, who loves vengence, i have a great plan for you.

Remember his name, do a paid character name change, start befriending him, and even better join his guild. Work with guild a lot in upcoming expansion, become a raid leader. A few months down the road lead a guild run for something where that hunter shows up. Develop a friendship with him to a point where you actually become REALID friends and even perhaps REALID friends with his family/RL friends too. Talk about WOW and everything on all other characters.. etc... Let a few more months pass.

Lead a new Cata raid as the ML where a rare mount can drop (IE like the Black Drake or Azure Drake... etc). Keep doing these with the guild for weeks/months until that rare mount drops and hopefully he'll win or even better, his Girlfriend or his Son wins it. Ninja it yourself. and say BOOYA THATS FOR STEALING MY ARCTURIS SPAWN YOU JERKFACE!!!!

/ignore player
/gquit

Thats a way of revenge... Revenge is a dish best served cold... Remember that.

Ah, there's no need for all that. I explained the situation in a later post on this thread and everything has been cleared up between me and the other hunter. We were both caught up in the moment so we were both to blame for the kill. We're on good terms now. I've got my Arcturis, and he's got his so if anything, I'd like to put this all behind me.

[Impulse]

These poor souls don't know any better. By messing with another hunter's tame just because you are after same mob, you have to compete against that person even longer! to make it worse now that person might pull the same stuff you just did.

If you don't get the tag for taming, then you are better off let that person take it, it's a simple fact many people fail to realize
In PvP server, you could avoid lose-lose situation but doesn't change the fact it's not a nice thing to do.

[Royi]

Tier i posted this on another forum, in case you didnt read it its a perfect way on what to do in this situation:

Because I'm a nice guy, who loves vengence, i have a great plan for you.

Remember his name, do a paid character name change, start befriending him, and even better join his guild. Work with guild a lot in upcoming expansion, become a raid leader. A few months down the road lead a guild run for something where that hunter shows up. Develop a friendship with him to a point where you actually become REALID friends and even perhaps REALID friends with his family/RL friends too. Talk about WOW and everything on all other characters.. etc... Let a few more months pass.

Lead a new Cata raid as the ML where a rare mount can drop (IE like the Black Drake or Azure Drake... etc). Keep doing these with the guild for weeks/months until that rare mount drops and hopefully he'll win or even better, his Girlfriend or his Son wins it. Ninja it yourself. and say BOOYA THATS FOR STEALING MY ARCTURIS SPAWN YOU JERKFACE!!!!

/ignore player
/gquit

Thats a way of revenge... Revenge is a dish best served cold... Remember that.

Ah, there's no need for all that. I explained the situation in a later post on this thread and everything has been cleared up between me and the other hunter. We were both caught up in the moment so we were both to blame for the kill. We're on good terms now. I've got my Arcturis, and he's got his so if anything, I'd like to put this all behind me.

Tier, there IS a need for this! He will not expect it even more! You have already completed step 1 of the ultimate revenge guide by befriending him! You can do it!

[Tudyk]

Ha, yeah, but that's a bit like saying "locked doors drive me batty because you can just tell that people WANT to take your stuff..."

Of course they do! The only question is, would you rather give them 24/7 access to you, or do your own thing and choose for yourself when/where/how you will interact with them?

I didn't lock my doors until I moved to Miami for college. It still bugs the crap out of me that I have to ... anyways ...

Choosing when people interact with YOU means they also get to choose when you interact with THEM. Sure, questing on a PvP server can be a bit frustrating. And it really makes you want to show up for raids on time (or at least it did) but you've got the ability to get rid of an entire faction's worth of competition, if you choose to do so. I've loved camping rares on a PvP server. =D

[Kalliope]

Choosing when people interact with YOU means they also get to choose when you interact with THEM.

Much better put than when I said it! That's one of the points I was going for.

[Kinyoku]

I also had something similar to this happen. A friend of mine, a fellow hunter alerted me that the bear had spawned, so I quickly left the random dungeon I was in to go catch it. It took me a few moments to get from Dalaran to where it was, but to my shock my friend was the only one there.

I quickly tried to tame only to realize, in my haste to GET there I forgot to switch specs ... so I quickly switched back to beast mastery but low and behold blizzard's (poor) design of losing 100% mana stalled me for another few seconds. Once I could drop trap and tagged it I hit tame.

Not even a second later in bright red letters from a /yell someone screams "I'LL EFFING KILL YOU!" drops out of the air and proceeds to attack the bear. We play tug of war over it until I finally killed it because I had enough of him trying to steal the mob I had managed to tag first.

He then proceeds to scream at me, declaring I was taking "His pet" and continued to threaten me until I had to report him. Being on the PVE Server Bronzebeard I had no way to call my horde friends in to kill him, but one did camp the bear and returned the favor to the rude hunter. I was lucky enough to catch it a week later thankfully.