Blizzard Deny's players are exploting Tol Barad

[Adam-Savage]

So I come across this blue post today on mmo.I was a little shocked that blizzard is basically denying the Horde and Alliance players are exploiting the match by bringing in more players by dropping raid..Instead of fixing the problem they rather just deny there is problem to begin with...Go Blizzard! *facepalm*

so i don't ever post... but this has be just irritated beyond anything this game has ever done to piss me off... Why is it that during Tol Barad there can be 2 or 3 to 1 odds against us when it is supposed to be a 1 to 1 ratio...? maybe this is a well known issue or an exploit but it is $%^$%^ crap... my server has not had Tol Barad for the horde in 6 days ... because of this glitch or w/e this #$%# is.

Can i get some clarification as to why more than a 1 to 1 ratio is available in tol barad? is it a known issue? and how much longer do i have to suffer before a fix comes?

It doesn't actually work. The balance of factions is not dependent on if you’re in a raid or not. It's a mis-perception based on the inability to see the opposing team's numbers. What’s happening is that you can leave a raid, remain in Tol Barad, and because your old raid may pick up an additional player from the queue there’s an assumption that your side is getting more players. In fact the other side is keeping up and also getting additional players. We’ve verified across a number of realms that faction balance remains equal, even in cases where we found people actively attempting to use this to outnumber the opposing team. They weren't.

We keep a close eye on Tol Barad faction balance and turnover.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/1545 ... s-30-fight

[Lisaara]

Ugh.....c'mon now Blizzard.....if multiple people are SEEING this happen, then something is obviously happening.....

[Moore]

Blizzard initiated a survey; twice that kept me and a lot of other plays from playing WoW.

The first thing they did was say it was a problem on our end.

4 days later Blizzard says nothing at all on the issue, then finally states oh it was our survey it's gone now. And we all got to play again -.-

[Adam-Savage]

Maybe a phone call to blizzard and see If one can reach someone higher up before they admit there is problem. I think if enough people make a big enough stink about it then they might do something rather then deny there is even a problem.

[Nightsights]

but no one (except for blizz) can see the entire battlefield and count how many players per side are actually in TB.

currently this bg is all about the zerg, so yea, the players' perception will always be the other side has more players.

[Turgus]

Personally, and I am probably going to get a bit of flack for this, I believe Blizzard on this particular issue.
It is difficult to calculate the numbers that we are talking about unless you have the access to information they have.

It is not to say that there isn't a problem with Tol Barad, and it is possible that Blizzard is lying about this... but, since they have the info, I will take their word on this.

I have tried to "exploit" this on my server to see if it actually works, and have seen people in my raid do the same thing, BUT the battles, and the balance in the zone never even "seemed" to be out of balance. Each side was approximately of the same size, regardless of the outcome of the battle.

Of course mileage may very, but thats what I have seen and my 2 cents on it.

[Adam-Savage]

but no one (except for blizz) can see the entire battlefield and count how many players per side are actually in TB.

Yes you can. I've done it myself. The only thing you need to do is a /who on the Tol Barad zone and it will tell you how many are in the zone. It will also tell you who is in Tol Barad peninsula. The only time this would not work is if you have over 49 players in the zone on both sides. Also the /who will only show the faction your on when you do the /who. It does not show the opposing faction.

[Nightsights]

but no one (except for blizz) can see the entire battlefield and count how many players per side are actually in TB.

The only time this would not work is if you have over 49 players in the zone on both sides.

Also the /who will only show the faction your on when you do the /who. It does not show the opposing faction.

main prob for players is that most servers will have 2 full raid grps which would be 80 v 80.

and you would need 2 accounts to track both sides at the same time.

[Adam-Savage]

but no one (except for blizz) can see the entire battlefield and count how many players per side are actually in TB.

The only time this would not work is if you have over 49 players in the zone on both sides.

Also the /who will only show the faction your on when you do the /who. It does not show the opposing faction.

main prob for players is that most servers will have 2 full raid grps which would be 80 v 80.

and you would need 2 accounts to track both sides at the same time.

In real time yes you would. Luckily both sides where fairly stable with the numbers during the match.

[Nightsights]

i am currently tracking our TB battle. EST server approx 12:20am. updating every few mins
(already had a lvl 6 horde on my wife's account to help me get the burning boar pet back during the shattering)

ally(attacking) v horde(defending)

17v19

19v22

24v25

30v30

33v37

battle over 12:36

[Turgus]

Those numbers would not look out of the ordinary for any BG. (AV ect)
Of course it would be nice if the sides were "always" even but there are allot of things those numbers can quantify.

It does not show a second by second account of who is in the BG, how many people of each side are in the que, who has be "invited" to join the BG but hasn't joined yet, or who has left the BG.
That kind of information is something that Blizzard would have and would be able to track quite easily.

So while it may seem like things are amiss to some, and we all have to go with our own individual experiences, mine seem to support the assessment of Blizzard that there is "nothing" wrong with balancing of the BG numbers wise. (Of course there are other obvious problems with it....)

This could be the case of another Blizzard denial and cover-up of a problem, but I haven't seen real evidence to support this yet.



Finally, I have to say thank you to you guys for investigating your concerns, it is efforts like yours that identify bugs and forces Blizzard to fix them.

[Minifig]

Recording a video and providing it as proof would probably be most beneficial.

[cowmuflage]

Yes that would seeing as Screenshots can easyly be faked.

[Adam-Savage]

Yes that would seeing as Screenshots can easily be faked.

If only I was that good in shop. Sadly I couldn't fake them if I tried. Then again I know what I saw and if nobody believes me then c'est la vie.

[Adam-Savage]

I also like to add that it seems people here and on the Bnet forums either flat out saying I'm lying or suggest it/imply. It's starting to get on my nerves to be honest. I have better things to do with my time then make stuff up or fake my screen shots (I don't even know how to do that..) I reported what I seen on both side and I checked several times back and forth to make sure I was getting correct numbers. I still stand by my offer for anyone to check my server at random to see for themselves. Seems the more I talk about it the more people in general find ways to disprove what I'm saying. I had one person say the reason for the difference in numbers is people walking on the bridge and back out to check the progress.. It's like really ? I know my server and it's usually the Alliance parked outside the gate. You get the odd 1 or 2 players that will do this but not 10!

If the match was matched very closely like 40 vs 38 and we keep loosing then I would just shrug it off. Atleast the match was fair and if we loose then we just suck at pvp. However this does NOT seem to be the case. I do not stand alone when I say either side is exploiting the game by bringing in more people to the battle. Despite this you still get people that wave there finger at you and acuse of you lying or come up with some other explanation. I always disprove them each time but it's never enough..

Oh and Video can be tinkered with as well... It's not just pictures.

[cowmuflage]

Yes but not as easyly as pictures can be. Just saying a video tends to get peoples attention more than a screenshot will.

[Adam-Savage]

Yes but not as easyly as pictures can be. Just saying a video tends to get peoples attention more than a screenshot will.

What more attention could you want on this ? Blizzard knows what's going and they don't how to fix it. Solution ? Deny anything is wrong. Countless players are saying the same thing I've been saying all this time. I suppose there just seeing things.. Would makes sense seeing as that's what blizzard is trying to say. 9/10 players on the forums agree with my findings and some have even added it It's only the odd few that seem to want to argue.

[Nightsights]

didnt even notice your ss's. looks like 8 horde v 25 ally. the question would be do we know exactly how the system works?

blizz said a 1:1 ration, but what's the minimum? if only 1 person on one of the sides que, does it stay 1v1 the entire battle? most people image it would have been a very strict 1:1 ration, but having been in unbalanced BGs before i not so sure.

at what number is the 1:1 ratio implemented? i've been in a few unbalanced BGs. wsg, 5v10 or ab/eots 7v15, or av 15v40



made an ally and a horde lvl 1 on anvilmar server

logged on around 0040 server time, when there was around 5mins till start on my server, Gilneas, there were ally in tol barad but no horde, so guessing ally is defending.


server time 0048, 18v18

@ 0053, 20v20
@ 0057, 21v21
@ 0103, 18v7
@ 0104, 17v3 guess ally won

[Adam-Savage]

didnt even notice your ss's. looks like 8 horde v 25 ally. the question would be do we know exactly how the system works?

blizz said a 1:1 ration, but what's the minimum? if only 1 person on one of the sides que, does it stay 1v1 the entire battle? most people image it would have been a very strict 1:1 ration, but having been in unbalanced BGs before i not so sure.

at what number is the 1:1 ratio implemented? i've been in a few unbalanced BGs. wsg, 5v10 or ab/eots 7v15, or av 15v40



made an ally and a horde lvl 1 on anvilmar server

logged on around 0040 server time, when there was around 5mins till start on my server, Gilneas, there were ally in tol barad but no horde, so guessing ally is defending.


server time 0048, 18v18

@ 0053, 20v20
@ 0057, 21v21
@ 0103, 18v7
@ 0104, 17v3 guess ally won

I was told by one of my Buddie's that we usually get Tol Barad right around the time you checked. Your 20v20 is who ? Horde vs Alliance ?

[Nightsights]

made an ally and a horde lvl 1 on anvilmar server

logged on around 0040 server time, when there was around 5mins till start on my server, Gilneas, there were ally in tol barad but no horde, so guessing ally is defending.


server time 0048, 18v18

@ 0053, 20v20
@ 0057, 21v21
@ 0103, 18v7
@ 0104, 17v3 guess ally won

I was told by one of my Buddie's that we usually get Tol Barad right around the time you checked. Your 20v20 is who ? Horde vs Alliance ?

no, its ally v horde as you can see in the last time posted "@ 0104, 17v3 guess ally won" ally staying in the bg to do dailys or the raid and the horde players leaving the bg.