Sweet Bippy, GS is getting out of hand

[Loridon]

THe big probleme is:you can pug almost everything!
Guild arent important in wotlk so nobody keeps his save for a guildrun and just pug everything.
So ppl are asking for avchiev and now for gs.
Bring back the time where we did raids with the guild only.I rlly miss that.Back then you learn to work as a good solid team.Ppl didnt look at your gear then because they knew you where skilled or not.

[Epicfail]

Uh actually. VoA bosses are meant to be PuGable. And I've done them before Ryai had a gearscore even near 5k. Somewhere on 3k. Maybe pushing 4k. Maybe the newest boss requires 5k but the first three? No. That's just silly.

I've been in quite a few VoAs. Yes, its puggable... by people who know the fights and can perform as needed. Expect 90% of the groups to start with the hardest boss first and possibly disband afterwards. I haven't done the first two bosses in a long time in a Pug VoA.

Um lol? I don't think you understand. Ryai, according to GS has nealy 5k gs. So it's not about being undergeared or overgeared. And tbh I couldn't give a rats patootie about being in a raid or not. Hell the raids I've been in are either others like me who were always excluded because of 'lol no achievements' and people expecting you to remember every single god damn boss fight tactics On the rare time we get nice raiders who put up with our brainlessness, explain the basics and we just wing it and have fun.

This is the reason raids still wipe on NAXX bosses and generally the reason there's still dps performing at 2-3k dps in an ICC 25 fully buffed. Call me elitist or old fashioned, but I likes me some contributing members who not only know what to do in a fight, but actually do it well. Brainlessness just means you prefer others to carry you. Personally, I'd never find any satisfaction in that, but if that's your bag, do as you like and /ignore to keep my repair bills down. I'm sure you're a real nice person but I joined a guild to get away from having to group much with folks like you (not to mention the chain wipes on northrend beasts and the waste of an hour)

Look I don't think you get what we mean and I don't think you're trying to grasp what we're getting at. I have no problem if people want 'lolscore' for gear or expect it to show skill or expect achievement + GS to show skill, cause I have both GS and achievements and let me tell you, I don't have skill.

What I am trying to get at is GS is starting to be used for everything. Everywhere. It's being turned from a helpful guide and aid into something like, Must have achieve for Naxx 10 NORM. OR, even BEFORE that, people asking for 4+k dps for Naxx Norm. Hell saw someone demand 6k for it.

And you also don't understand that, it's not just a few people on my server, it's starting to turn into atleast 80-90% of the population, because they think it's an auto win button now.

Maybe you're right. Maybe I don't understand you. I do understand that it takes the bulk of a raid to be comprised of people who know how to play their classes, know the fights and follow orders. GS doesn't actually rate that. It does help you to find people who potentially CAN perform at the level you need them to, as opposed to people who just dinged 80 or are on an undergeared alt. People wanting 6k dps for Naxx are setting their standards higher hoping to attract the strongest dps. It may sound silly, but downing a raid weekly and getting on with your life is pretty damned attractive to those who don't have all day to play.

People using minimum GS and achieves want SOMETHING to differentiate you from Adam (or Eve) that they can get either in a tell or by looking up your character. Any responsible raid leader would want the right people so that the raid can down the boss, but finding the right people is not easy. For instance, if a raid leader was unlucky enough to invite 24 other people like you (who need to be carried), then the boss isn't going down, or people get saved to a dungeon and the group disbands after a few wipes. Its only natural people would turn to SOMETHING to find out whether you are worth the risk to invite. Most pugs only get one or two shots on something before people start leaving, if that.

I have a couple RL friends that play the game. They want to play with everyone else and join in raids, but they won't go to EJ forums to learn their class better, they won't listen to reason about how to contribute better in a raid... They wonder why noone invites them to raids, but they just aren't willing to expend the time and resources to better themselves. In essence, they become the fat kid that gets picked last for kickball. They blame the other kids for being "elitist" or "discriminating", but the other kids just want to have a chance to win. Solution: lose the weight or quit trying to play kickball. Friends should be there to help you lose the weight and get better at what you do, but if you're comfortably fat and lazy, guess what? You have no right to be mad! You know what you have to do and noone else can do it for you.

[Ryai]

This is the reason raids still wipe on NAXX bosses and generally the reason there's still dps performing at 2-3k dps in an ICC 25 fully buffed. Call me elitist or old fashioned, but I likes me some contributing members who not only know what to do in a fight, but actually do it well. Brainlessness just means you prefer others to carry you. Personally, I'd never find any satisfaction in that, but if that's your bag, do as you like and /ignore to keep my repair bills down. I'm sure you're a real nice person but I joined a guild to get away from having to group much with folks like you (not to mention the chain wipes on northrend beasts and the waste of an hour)

Oh wow. It's nice of you to try and insinuate I cause wipes or groups to fail. I mean really. That is so, so kind of you to do so. Just because I say we act brainless or have fun, that must equal we wipe? I'm sorry but did I say we wiped? No. We only wiped when people decided ohshi half the raid doesn't know tacts or understand tacts, WE CBA TO EXPLAIN BAIL.

Sure gear overcompensation saved us on our first Ulda pug, but we got a second for the weekly up and I just admited up front; Why yes I am sometimes a brainless retard so please forgive me if I screw up somehow.

The healer had no problem just giving me a warning to alert everyone when it was time to start dpsing down the adds the deconstructor summons.

So again- why did you assume 'By having fun', we were wiping?

It may sound silly, but downing a raid weekly and getting on with your life is pretty damned attractive to those who don't have all day to play.

Yeah and I'm talking about before the raid weekly.

For instance, if a raid leader was unlucky enough to invite 24 other people like you (who need to be carried),

I'm sorry.

What :D

What: :D

I don't need to be carried anywhere :D I don't stand around idly scratching me bum when other people fight. When there's dpsing needing to be done I unload and dish it out as best I am able to. I do not get carried and I do not ask to be carried and even if it was for the iron bound proto I would not be carried. Because you know why? I want to earn my achievements, I want to earn my gear. It's why I was disgusted when someone flippantly told me on my Paladin to get boosted for tanking gear instead of learning and gearing up the right and correct way.

So again. What?

I'm just stopping at here as evidently you just want to assume the worst out of people and you're one of those kinds of raiders.

[Epicfail]

Oh wow. It's nice of you to try and insinuate I cause wipes or groups to fail. I mean really. That is so, so kind of you to do so. Just because I say we act brainless or have fun, that must equal we wipe? I'm sorry but did I say we wiped? No. We only wiped when people decided ohshi half the raid doesn't know tacts or understand tacts, WE CBA TO EXPLAIN BAIL.

Sure gear overcompensation saved us on our first Ulda pug, but we got a second for the weekly up and I just admited up front; Why yes I am sometimes a brainless retard so please forgive me if I screw up somehow.

The healer had no problem just giving me a warning to alert everyone when it was time to start dpsing down the adds the deconstructor summons.

So again- why did you assume 'By having fun', we were wiping?

I actually wasn't saying much outside what you posted and I'm not exactly trying to offend you here. Well, maybe a little. I get frustrated when a raid wipes due to people who don't know what they are doing. That you say upfront you don't know the fight is great. Those who not only know the fight, but have done it before will help you win. Those who don't, are being carried. Some fights need good movement and target swapping by everyone to win and those will be the ones you struggle most with until you learn them.

My purpose in saying anything further in this thread is: if you're a nub, realize it and ask for help, thats a good thing. Keep learning and keep growing and you'll become an asset to a raid someday. Become more skillful in playing and learn a good rotation. As you do so, you'll learn how to become a better raider.

So again. What?

I'm just stopping at here as evidently you just want to assume the worst out of people and you're one of those kinds of raiders.

I'll stop too as evidently we have trouble seeing eye to eye. I don't assume the worst of people unless they give me a reason to do so (much similarly to someone who said blanket statements about others on their realm and gearscore :p).

As for being one of "those" raiders... heh. I care about service before glory. What I do to support a raid is more important than anything I get out of it or any glorious achievement. If I perform at 7-8k dps on a fight, downed the adds whenever they spawned and kept my ass out of the fire, I've just done "my part" for the raid. The better I do my job, the more chance we all win as a whole. To do that, I learn from others on forums and websites, I learn boss fights and I research gear so that when something drops, I don't roll need unless it absolutely is what I need to do my job better. If not, someone else can use it. So yes, if by one of "those" raiders you mean everything I just posted above, as another wiseass sonofgun once said, "I'm your huckleberry..."

[Sigrah]

I'm probably in the minority, but I'll say it anyways: I like Gearscore, and here's why:

Heroic PUGs - In heroic 5-mans, it gives me a good idea of what to expect from players. For instance, if I see a DPS with a GS of 4,500 to 5,000+ only putting up 2,000 DPS, I know he/she is slacking off and I have no qualms about voting to kick them. If they are doing the same damage and have a GS of 2,500 to 3,000, then I can generally assume they're doing the best they can and I won't be trying to kick them or voting for them to be kicked (unless they keep wiping us or something stupid).

The same thing goes for tanks. If I see a new tank with a GS below 3k trying to tank heroics, chances are I won't stick around for it. Why? Because most of the time (from personal experience), tanks below a certain GS for a given instance can't get the job done, or they simply can't hold agro well enough to keep up with the DPS someone like me is putting out no matter what I do.

Raid PUGs - When it comes to PUG raids, I have no qualms with raid organizers using it as part of their requirements. I know many people want to sit here and say "GS shouldn't matter, that it doesn't measure player skill, that people set ridiculously high GS requirements for a given raid, it's elitist, etc.", and in some regards, you're right. But, here's the cold, hard reality of PUG raids:

1) Raid organizers don't know who you are 99.99% of the time, let alone how good you are at your class. Therefore, the best measuring stick they have is to judge your gear to get a good idea of what to expect from you.

2) With regards to raid leaders that want excessive GS for a given instance, you're most likely right. However, most of the people organizing such raids generally aren't going there for upgrades, they are going there for achievements, rare items (mounts are a good example of this), or just for one specific item they want for whatever reason.

3) Lastly, like most anything else, people running PUG raids want things to go as quickly and easily as possible. This means getting people with the best gear and those who know the fights. Does GS prove for sure that a given player will fit into this? No, but it gives an organizer a good idea of the odds a given player will.

At any rate, I can agree that GS doesn't measure someone's skill, whether or not they were carried to get there, or anything else intangible. But, like I said above, it does give you an idea of what reasonably expect from a given player, or if they have the proper tools to do the job you're expecting them to. It's not perfect, but it works well overall. If you can figure out a better way of evaluating a complete stranger on the spot for a given raid, by all means, put it out there. Otherwise, this is probably the best we have for now.

[Kalliope]

If you can figure out a better way of evaluating a complete stranger on the spot for a given raid, by all means, put it out there. Otherwise, this is probably the best we have for now.

The Armory.

Gearscore is just shorthand for that.

[Sonata]

I have a hate relantionship with the thing, it ruined my healing career. I don't know what it is like from a DPS's point of view but I have even my tanks and dps complaining about my stupid GS (which was 3737 before I got a few updates and I asked around some of the raiders on the server they said I was good as anything for Naxx) was low, my manapool was lunchmeat and I keep on telling them that a druid doesn't NEED a big manapool.
Mind you I don't raid that often...Obsidian Sanctum was as far as I went....Oh I bet I'm annoying you guys with mah' raiding dreams and druidism. Maybe I should take a break from mah main chara.

However, most of the people organizing such raids generally aren't going there for upgrades, they are going there for achievements, rare items (mounts are a good example of this), or just for one specific item they want for whatever reason.

I think they say if the raid is an achievement run or how long they will go, so this is kinda....not true.
This might be only how my server works/worked. Besides everyone goes to the raid for items...I mean that's what they are for, not many do the end game stuff for fun these days.
Excuse my negative outlook but it seems like that these days.

[Kalliope]

I have a hate relantionship with the thing, it ruined my healing career. I don't know what it is like from a DPS's point of view but I have even my tanks and dps complaining about my stupid GS (which was 3737 before I got a few updates and I asked around some of the raiders on the server they said I was good as anything for Naxx) was low, my manapool was lunchmeat and I keep on telling them that a druid doesn't NEED a big manapool.

What sort of druids were they comparing you to? What sort of raids were you wanting to heal? My druid's healing gear was Naxx 10 level entering ToC 10 and it was HARD AS HELL the first few weeks. We limped through, but a gear level difference that large was pretty damned painful....and that was just two tiers.

[Sonata]

I have a hate relantionship with the thing, it ruined my healing career. I don't know what it is like from a DPS's point of view but I have even my tanks and dps complaining about my stupid GS (which was 3737 before I got a few updates and I asked around some of the raiders on the server they said I was good as anything for Naxx) was low, my manapool was lunchmeat and I keep on telling them that a druid doesn't NEED a big manapool.

What sort of druids were they comparing you to? What sort of raids were you wanting to heal? My druid's healing gear was Naxx 10 level entering ToC 10 and it was HARD AS HELL the first few weeks. We limped through, but a gear level difference that large was pretty damned painful....and that was just two tiers.

I by no means want to jump right into ToC, thats like...I can't even find a comparison to that! I'd just want to do a full Naxx nothing more. My dream would be doing Ulduar after Naxx if all things go well I might even get to see the Lich King someday.

I was asking a standard outlook on my gear level. They were telling me the standard stats for someone high enough to be ready to Naxx and OS (and I have done OS 10/25 while healing with lots of blues back then) but not anything higher like Ulduar, even if I might be able to rough Uldu if the others are willing to take a huge risk. Personaly I'd love to take a crack at it but I'd rather not.
I know actualy that my best bet to get even a single Naxx boss is to do the daily Raid. Soo I'm whining now, bad habit there sadly, but people asking for a 5k GS is insane for Naxx that is one of the first Northrend raids!

[Kalliope]

I have a hate relantionship with the thing, it ruined my healing career. I don't know what it is like from a DPS's point of view but I have even my tanks and dps complaining about my stupid GS (which was 3737 before I got a few updates and I asked around some of the raiders on the server they said I was good as anything for Naxx) was low, my manapool was lunchmeat and I keep on telling them that a druid doesn't NEED a big manapool.

What sort of druids were they comparing you to? What sort of raids were you wanting to heal? My druid's healing gear was Naxx 10 level entering ToC 10 and it was HARD AS HELL the first few weeks. We limped through, but a gear level difference that large was pretty damned painful....and that was just two tiers.

I by no means want to jump right into ToC, thats like...I can't even find a comparison to that! I'd just want to do a full Naxx nothing more. My dream would be doing Ulduar after Naxx if all things go well I might even get to see the Lich King someday.

I was asking a standard outlook on my gear level. They were telling me the standard stats for someone high enough to be ready to Naxx and OS (and I have done OS 10/25 while healing with lots of blues back then) but not anything higher like Ulduar, even if I might be able to rough Uldu if the others are willing to take a huge risk. Personaly I'd love to take a crack at it but I'd rather not.
I know actualy that my best bet to get even a single Naxx boss is to do the daily Raid. Soo I'm whining now, bad habit there sadly, but people asking for a 5k GS is insane for Naxx that is one of the first Northrend raids!

Hmmm. Are you looking more for raiding experience in Lich or to get to ICC? Cause you're going to be far more likely to find a group willing to do ToC 10 than Naxx or Uld. Well, at least on my server; I can't speak for yours. At any rate, running ToC is more likely to get you ICC-ready than the other two, at least in terms of gear. I forget which other thread we discussed it in, but the general feeling was that at this stage of the game, you run Uld for raid experience and ToC/heroics for gear.

That brings me back to where I'm taking this. You know that guide I wrote for gearing up hunters at this stage of the game? It applies to all other classes too. The only difference is where the individual pieces drop - but you're still running the same instances. That'll get you set up in mostly 232 level gear, which will have you ready for ToC 10 and ICC 10 (at least the first wing). That's not to say that you shouldn't run Uld or even Naxx for the experience, not by a long shot. The thing is, it's actually usually easier to get groups for the current endgame instance(s) than it is to backtrack. You still have to learn the encounters either way, so you might as well learn the newest fights sooner than later, since you'll need to anyway. Basically, the gear is out there, so why not take advantage of it?

I agree completely with your original point, that asking people to be that geared for the first raid instance of the expansion is ridiculous and grossly unfair (not to mention absolutely unnecessary). Unfortunately, that's the situation you're stuck dealing with. On the plus side, if all people are looking at is numbers, then they probably don't know how to tell the difference between someone in welfare gear (gear obtained easily through farming heroics for badges as opposed to farming badges in ToC when it was first released) and someone who got it fresh at the time. Not that they really care either way; they seem to be assuming that high GS = knowledge to use said gear.

TL;DR. Use the system to your advantage. Gear up a bit and use their system against them. Even with lesser experience, it's better to get your foot in the door and learn than it is to be continuously shut out and never get to try.

(Oh, and an aside: I only healed on my druid in ToC in Naxx 10 gear because I'd been gearing as bear main spec up until that point. I'm not insane, nor was it my idea; it was a necessary evil. >_> At least you're STARTING as a tree; that makes it easier.)

[Rhyela]

I don't raid so I don't care too much one way or the other, but I did have a chuckle the other day when I inspected another hunter. This hunter had some of the worst gear for their class, but everything was epics. They probably had a higher GS than me, sure. But at least I don't freaking gem for spirit, strength, DEFENSE (yes, they had defense gems/gear) and have the spellpower Darkmoon card trinkets. >.> Maybe GS takes stuff like that into account, I don't know, never used it. But I find it kind of funny that sure, this person has more epix than me, but LOOK AT THEM. They were geared more like a resto/elemental shaman than anything else. Then they wonder why we're referred to as huntards. I may not read EJ, I may not use fancy UIs, but at least I know my class through playing and finding out what stats benefit me and my pet the most. And I'd say I do a pretty darned good job when I'm in mostly blues and still doing better dps than people in purples (in heroics, anyway), and I'm BM spec at that! So yeah, I'm sure GS is handy, and that's fine, but it definitely isn't any sort of guarantee.

[Kalliope]

I don't raid so I don't care too much one way or the other, but I did have a chuckle the other day when I inspected another hunter. This hunter had some of the worst gear for their class, but everything was epics. They probably had a higher GS than me, sure. But at least I don't freaking gem for spirit, strength, DEFENSE (yes, they had defense gems/gear) and have the spellpower Darkmoon card trinkets. >.> Maybe GS takes stuff like that into account, I don't know, never used it. But I find it kind of funny that sure, this person has more epix than me, but LOOK AT THEM. They were geared more like a resto/elemental shaman than anything else. Then they wonder why we're referred to as huntards. I may not read EJ, I may not use fancy UIs, but at least I know my class through playing and finding out what stats benefit me and my pet the most. And I'd say I do a pretty darned good job when I'm in mostly blues and still doing better dps than people in purples (in heroics, anyway), and I'm BM spec at that! So yeah, I'm sure GS is handy, and that's fine, but it definitely isn't any sort of guarantee.

QFT.

This is a big reason of why I'm here, posting about available gear upgrades and such. There's a good number of casual hunters here who know their class better than these fools in defense/spellpower gear, but who don't bother with hunting down gear upgrades (for any number of reasons). I want you guys to have as many options available to you as possible, especially since you CAN have them.

(That hunter in epics, btw, probably didn't have that much higher a gear score than you. Usually the hunters who pull stuff like that are only running heroics, so they're heavily in ilevel 200 gear, which is the same level as the heroic level blues.)

[Sonata]

Kalliope, you don't know how many questions that answered in my mind. That was the most informative raid telling post I have ever read!
Might be a bit slow to raid now because of recent server problems (alot of guilds and people moved away) but I'll get there...I'll brew a evil plot to get myself into a raid.
*does a list of possible gear upgrades for her remaining three blue items*

[Kalliope]

Kalliope, you don't know how many questions that answered in my mind. That was the most informative raid telling post I have ever read!

Thanks! Just trying to help out, really. And what I said would not have been true before ICC came out. It's just a measure of the here and now of WoW.

Might be a bit slow to raid now because of recent server problems (alot of guilds and people moved away) but I'll get there...I'll brew a evil plot to get myself into a raid.
*does a list of possible gear upgrades for her remaining three blue items*

Good luck!

[kairii]

gearsore (aka gayscore sorry if that offends someone /begs) is a useless addon as most have said it doesnt count class items or gems even enchants! you can wear any item as long as the item level is high you can even wear PvP gear and im sure gs is used for PvE
i will say i am one of the many who doesnt like the addon my gs is high enough and only time i pug is with another guild to either help them on a boss fight or its the weekly there is alot on my realm that fight it alot of those do have the addon as we giggle when we see 'LFM TOGC 10 NEED 5.7K GS!!!' so we find the person and as always they only have 4k... and the more people do this the less we see the spam for it
tbh like i said i peronally dont like it i wont tell overs ' AMG ITS RONG DUN USE IT OR U IS N00B'
use it if you like there are many other places you can get your GS 'wowheroes' is one its half of the GS addon theres another which doesnt give numbers but stats that counts gems, enchants and what type of gear your in
as in me as a hunter wore leather i would get marked down
i have this bookmarked at home .. my memory with websites is terrible >.> i cant even remember my own guilds website -.-
we are all allowed our own view on things in game and real life
when i ever start a pug or whenever the 'smart' people on my realm do it we meet with the people and inspect their gear yes it takes a lil more time but getting to look to check gems enchants even speccs! is worth it for a clean run also you can fake achivments now (yey for addons huh?)

and if you want to raid more as in progress though content get into a raiding guild or make your own raid content and have some fun with or without wipes both is good no one perfect so ofc there will be wipes no matter what your doing even i still make silly mistakes now and then :O .. mainly MDing the pala healer still from saurfang >.< (yes im a noob at the best of times :3)
hopefully one day this GS addon will go away and we can all go back to the good old days :3 and have a bit more fun and less trade spam

but this is just my view on the topic of gearscore

[Anansi]

I'm probably in the minority, but I'll say it anyways: I like Gearscore, and here's why:

Heroic PUGs - In heroic 5-mans, it gives me a good idea of what to expect from players. For instance, if I see a DPS with a GS of 4,500 to 5,000+ only putting up 2,000 DPS, I know he/she is slacking off and I have no qualms about voting to kick them. If they are doing the same damage and have a GS of 2,500 to 3,000, then I can generally assume they're doing the best they can and I won't be trying to kick them or voting for them to be kicked (unless they keep wiping us or something stupid).

Why should this matter to you? 2k DPS in an Heroic is perfectly acceptable regardless of how a person is geared. Whether a person is reaching their full potential to your satisfaction in the group is irrelevant as long as they're doing decent DPS. Some who are geared very very well are only running the Heroics for the badges, not to prove anything and so sometimes slack off a bit. You also have to be aware that some classes like Arcane Mages or Affliction Warlocks need longer fights to really build up the DPS, fights longer than what Heroics afford.
Point is, provided the DPS requirements are being met, what is it to you and why should you feel you have a say in whether that person gets their Frost badges or not?

The same thing goes for tanks. If I see a new tank with a GS below 3k trying to tank heroics, chances are I won't stick around for it. Why? Because most of the time (from personal experience), tanks below a certain GS for a given instance can't get the job done, or they simply can't hold agro well enough to keep up with the DPS someone like me is putting out no matter what I do.

This is slightly more reasoned, but I've been successfully through Heroics with pretty terrible tanks before. Heck, I tanked half a Heroic Violet Hold after our tank totally failed and left. I've tanked bosses with my Shaman's Earth Elemental before too, when the tanks were terrible. I guess I find those challenges fun.

2) With regards to raid leaders that want excessive GS for a given instance, you're most likely right. However, most of the people organizing such raids generally aren't going there for upgrades, they are going there for achievements, rare items (mounts are a good example of this), or just for one specific item they want for whatever reason.

So they're going for easy achievements that they couldn't get when they were at the real gear level for the raid. If this is the case, then they should announce that when looking to fill the raid as this will indicate to at-level people that this isn't a raid they should apply for.

If you can figure out a better way of evaluating a complete stranger on the spot for a given raid, by all means, put it out there. Otherwise, this is probably the best we have for now.

Armoury is far better as it lists their achievements as well which means you get a much better picture of the player's ability. Relying on GS is just as lazy as the people you condemn for slacking off.

[Kalliope]

Well said, Anansi.

I've offtanked heroics on my healers before, either because the tank seemed like a decent person or I just wanted to get the daily knocked off and it wasn't hurting anything....or some combination thereof.

This has me thinking off on a tangent... I don't think I said this before, so I'll say it now: sometimes players can be trying their hardest, but they're not very good players to begin with. They might not know their class, regardless of their gear. Looking at someone's gear isn't going to tell you that the disc priest is having trouble keeping people up because he's using renew instead of the tools he should be using as a disc priest. (I gnash my teeth but plenty over that one.) Gearscore won't tell you that the reason the DK tank can't keep aggro on anything is because the warlock is opening up before the tank gets there and DKs don't have an AoE taunt. Numbers will not tell you that the warrior tank keeps dying because he's two-hand tanking and charging into massive packs out of line of sight of his healer.

Of course, you have to have some knowledge yourself to spot these sorts of things, but hey, it seems like the people who are generally the most interested in gearscore have the least amount of general knowledge of how to play themselves and just want to be carried.

The above rant isn't directed at anyone here; it's just at the mass of people in game who actually think these numbers mean something.

[FlightofthePhoenix]

gearsore (aka gayscore sorry if that offends someone /begs)

I am not trying to be confrontational, but why would you intentionally use a word that could offend someone, aware of how it hurts? I am in a relationship with a man, whom I can't marry because of society's bigotry, having to hear who I am used as an insult daily.

I wish I had the luxury of just being able to throw words around without them having consequences. Most often, I have been the subject of people's cruel word choices. Being gay and Jewish is a huge target on the internetz.

The point is, there's plenty of insults out there to be used without resorting to someone's sexuality. Frog-faced boulder brains is a good one.

[kairii]

hate to break it to ya hun but iv bi and its not just some teenage thing i was involed with a girl for over 2 years i loved her and she loved me, yes now i am with a man but before him i never really had a intrest in guys
i also have many same coupled friends they are not offended by it, it may just be the bristish laid back ways but no one uses it as a way to offend people if people say im gay i turn around yes im very happy thank you most realms do refer to gearscore as gayscore
i have no problems with anyone and hence why i said sorry as i know some people are offended by it also words like cow some are offend by that thats why when normally people post in a forum about taruens and call them cows tehy do say sorry as some people take it as a referance for fat

[FlightofthePhoenix]

All I'm saying is given the options, why go there at all? I'm usually very laid back too it just happens to be a sensitive area for me. America is not a friendly place for gays. When we get our rights and I don't feel in physical danger for coming out, I'll be much more laid back. It sucks being a second-class citizen and the use of gay as an insult just reinforces that. I'm not trying to fight, I like having discussions with people. Last night was not a good night, so please pardon any errors. -steers topic back onto normal grounds- My gearscore is 1337. Not really.