Why is BM so low in dps?
- Heleos
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Why is BM so low in dps?
Why can't all three be equal just different play styles? Why must Blizzard make one better then the other? It's really ticking me off to the point where I may just stop playing my hunter. :\
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- Lisaara
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Re: Why is BM so low in dps?
- Shade
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Re: Why is BM so low in dps?
At least that is how I understand things.
It might be you are doing things wrong as well. Could be your rotation is slightly off-or are you forgetting to respec your pets when you change specs? (I once did forget to do that and it was a big difference).
Here are some topics that discuss raiding as a BM, as I am not the most competent of raiders nor discussing this, you might find the information that you want here:
http://forums.wow-petopia.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10366
^Has in it a graphic of raiding and pet buffs to consider-very helpful graphic there.
http://forums.wow-petopia.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13266
http://forums.wow-petopia.com/viewtopic ... 15&t=13565
- Nightsights
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Re: Why is BM so low in dps?
BM is mainly cobra shots, kill command and arcane shots. i haven't played BM since the start of Cata, mainly to lvl my exotic pets. But when you compare 60K crits from both Chimaera shot and Aimed shot, yea, there's just no comparison. BM could use an extra 5% ap buff and a buff to kc.
- Dubhsidhe
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Re: Why is BM so low in dps?
Since the armory is down (boo) here is a link to my wow-heroes page
http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/us/ ... y%C3%A1ri/
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Re: Why is BM so low in dps?
Stop this just stop.... if anything at this point its MM > BM > SV and last patch it was BM > MM > SV how do I know this? I checked there BiS potential and guess what BM pulled about 1-2k more DPS then MM that's why BM was nerfed this patch while MM and SV were given slight buffs. (VIA black arrow and MM mastery) Even with all this I still haven't been out DPS by a MM or survival hunter who didn't horribly out gear me and even then their lead was slight (like 300 dps).Nightsights wrote:for raiding, especially progression raiding, its MM > SV > BM
BM is mainly cobra shots, kill command and arcane shots. i haven't played BM since the start of Cata, mainly to lvl my exotic pets. But when you compare 60K crits from both Chimaera shot and Aimed shot, yea, there's just no comparison. BM could use an extra 5% ap buff and a buff to kc.
By far BM is somewhat easier to play then the other 2 specs If you know what your doing, but most don't and that's why you see so many bad BM hunters and why we have such a bad rep. with BW I can launch of 2 buffed kill commands and about 8 arcane shots in a row. My cobra shot at this point is going of with 1.3 second cast times. Not to mention I buff the entire raids DPS by 3 percent. Provide buffs and debuffs that would otherwise be missing increasing the raids dps even more. Stop speaking as if this is wrath because it's not.
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- Nightsights
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Re: Why is BM so low in dps?
take a look at worldoflogs. look at the elapsed time on the fight(make sure they're similar, some ppl fudge it to get ranked), armory those hunters, same ilvl, similar guild firelands progression. you have geared BM hunters with most of the firelands bosses on farm, like beth, shannox, rhyo, baleroc, alysrazor, majordomo, 4-5 kills on each boss. i have to make an educated guess and say that these BM hunters know what they're doing, yet they are lower dps than the same ilvl MM and SV hunters. i looked at both the 10 and 25 man rankings, similar results:
the closest dps gap for BM and MM is 2K and the higher gaps (on most fights) is 6-8K difference.
the difference between SV and MM is even on some fights and up to 2K difference.
BM is certainly viable compared to some of the other classes, but when comparing same ilvl, same skill level, same raid progression hunters, it is MM > SV > BM
- Heleos
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Re: Why is BM so low in dps?
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Re: Why is BM so low in dps?
Also, as others have said, our direct dps isn't always the ultimate guage of our use in the raid... Our pets are capable of buffing the entire group, or debuffing on the mobs. Which increases EVERYONE'S dps.
Also, I'd be skeptical of any site which posts logs. Just because the information is going to be biased. Only those who use the right mods or upload their data will be included. Which could end up in causing skewed results, as maybe for some reason people who like, and are GOOD at BM, don't bother with uploading their information.
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Re: Why is BM so low in dps?
^ ThisKurenio wrote:Stop this just stop.... if anything at this point its MM > BM > SV and last patch it was BM > MM > SV how do I know this? I checked there BiS potential and guess what BM pulled about 1-2k more DPS then MM that's why BM was nerfed this patch while MM and SV were given slight buffs. (VIA black arrow and MM mastery) Even with all this I still haven't been out DPS by a MM or survival hunter who didn't horribly out gear me and even then their lead was slight (like 300 dps).Nightsights wrote:for raiding, especially progression raiding, its MM > SV > BM
BM is mainly cobra shots, kill command and arcane shots. i haven't played BM since the start of Cata, mainly to lvl my exotic pets. But when you compare 60K crits from both Chimaera shot and Aimed shot, yea, there's just no comparison. BM could use an extra 5% ap buff and a buff to kc.
By far BM is somewhat easier to play then the other 2 specs If you know what your doing, but most don't and that's why you see so many bad BM hunters and why we have such a bad rep. with BW I can launch of 2 buffed kill commands and about 8 arcane shots in a row. My cobra shot at this point is going of with 1.3 second cast times. Not to mention I buff the entire raids DPS by 3 percent. Provide buffs and debuffs that would otherwise be missing increasing the raids dps even more. Stop speaking as if this is wrath because it's not.
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Re: Why is BM so low in dps?
Just for laughs: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/u ... ing/simple My armory as it stands right now. Yes, that is a pvp bow because it was an upgrade to the Sky Piercer (Tol Barad) blue that I did have. Hence being able to do that 10-11k. Before that I was barely able to hold 8k. I'm currently trying to look at like my haste and crit to see if I need to reforge and change some stuff prior to valor gear. And I can't get a dungeon finder group with enough brainpower to down Jindo in ZG to try for the Mandokir's Tribute either. Have been trying since it came out and nothing yet except repair bills and kicks for not doing 20k dps.
Only been in the most recent heroics (last 2 weeks) that I've NOT run into complete jerk groups. If I could have found these people prior to this, I would have already cleared all the heroics and enjoyed doing so. And speaking of stats, anyone know the crit and haste I should be shooting for? Seeing several different numbers on people and cannot find actual "caps" for either stat anywhere. Maybe I would feel better if I knew I was at least in the range for stats that I need to be and just need those VP for epic gear.
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- Nightsights
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Re: Why is BM so low in dps?
i raided as SV during 4.0 thru 4.0.6, i did not like the SV nerf, but went to MM main spec. like our animal companions, i too adapted to the changes and continue to raid end game content. of course everyone can play which ever is their favorite spec. i advocate MM not b/c its my favorite spec, not b/c that's what FD or those other sims say, not b/c what EJ says, but b/c of the live, hard data provided by thousands of skilled and geared, end game raiding hunters.
- Nightsights
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Re: Why is BM so low in dps?
generally speaking, crit is our best secondary stat after being hit capped. there is no attainable cap for crit just stack it as much as possible.Kerafirewing wrote: And speaking of stats, anyone know the crit and haste I should be shooting for? Seeing several different numbers on people and cannot find actual "caps" for either stat anywhere. Maybe I would feel better if I knew I was at least in the range for stats that I need to be and just need those VP for epic gear.
haste is there to lower the cast time of our SS/CS. so just whatever is leftover after reforging for hit cap and crit.
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Re: Why is BM so low in dps?
This... is wrong.... Yes you need crit, but not haste the stat prio you should be following is Agi > Hit to 8% > Crit > Mastery >>>>>> haste.Kerafirewing wrote: I'm currently trying to look at like my haste and crit to see if I need to reforge and change some stuff prior to valor gear.
I've raiding since classic and the only time I did not raid as BM and still be able to top charts was in wrath. That time was the only time I raiding something other then BM because blizzard just made the dps so horrible that it was impossible for anyone to do anything with it.Nightsights wrote:i enjoy the pet aspect of being a hunter, but my primary focus is end game raiding. i've been raiding since around jul-aug 2006, i go with which ever spec produces the best dps to help my guild to clear current content. checking bis potential, simming, theory crafting, etc that is all good, but its just an estimate, and not actual, live dps. i know there are die hard fans for every spec. once upon a time in BC (Black Temple and Sunwell plateau) BM was the top raiding spec and the die hard MM hunters were crying. SV was top dps during wotlk-Naxx and Ulduar, they cried during The Coliseum and Icecrown Citadel when MM-arpen became the top dps raiding spec; and again during 4.0.6 when they were given the nerfbat.
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- Shade
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Re: Why is BM so low in dps?
Aha hit needs to stop at 8%? I have a little reforging to do then, thanksKurenio wrote:This... is wrong.... Yes you need crit, but not haste the stat prio you should be following is Agi > Hit to 8% > Crit > Mastery >>>>>> haste.Kerafirewing wrote: I'm currently trying to look at like my haste and crit to see if I need to reforge and change some stuff prior to valor gear.
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Re: Why is BM so low in dps?
Re: Why is BM so low in dps?
I agree with the 'doing something wrong' thing. All three specs are very close right now (with SV lagging a -bit- behind) but even so. Right now it's 100% all down to play style. If you are good at a spec, that spec will top charts. I am bad at Marks, for example, so my numbers as Marks are easily 5k+ worse than they are as BM no matter what my gear is.
Beast Mastery has a reputation that seems to encourage people to naysay it. Franky... the only time (and I mean the ONLY time) that the Numbers Tweaking Blogs seemed to think it was worth a damn when it was "too easy, too OP, take this and two-button your way to victory". It's not anymore; it takes as much reforging and care as the other specs, just in a different way. You have to know when to use not only your cooldowns but your pet's, which ones to stack and which ones to stagger. If you do it wrong, your numbers will suffer, and often quite markedly.
Honestly, it has very much become a 'play what you want to' class instead of 'play what you have to', and for that I'm actually thankful. Pretty much... I just shrug and blow off people that whine that I'm not playing whatever FOTM is popular right now. I know I can kick their ass on dps, and they usually shut up after I prove it.
As a note, however, much like afflic locks, your -TRASH- dps as BM is going to be a little weak, because unless you like finagling worms... you don't have a hell of a lot to throw out there. But really. Who cares about trash?
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- Kalliope
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Re: Why is BM so low in dps?
Hopefully changing things up gearwise will help with some of the passive dps issues. The rest of it is execution, making sure that you're hitting BW at the right times to max out your output.
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Re: Why is BM so low in dps?
Fights in the Firelands like Shannox and Lord Rhyolith are horrible for bm to me.
If you ever get to do Firelands you'll deffinately love bm on Baleroc. Only one thing to hit
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