HAIL TO THE KING!!!

[Nevar]

The fact of it is is nobody is perfect and Thrall and Sylvana's did not see the betrayal under their very noses... Varian had a lot going on and i do not blame him for one rash decesion. Especially since Garrosh provokes him all the time >< And YES he did die but was risen up by the Lich King he did in fact DIE. The Lich King is torturing him in ICC trying to break his spirit but he never succeeds.

[cowmuflage]

Well you do ahve to feel sorry for Thrall he has to put up with Garrosh all the time you can tell he feels bad when ever Garrosh does something liek that.

[Nevar]

Aye this is true but Thrall in my opinion needs to either make him change or ditch him. Garrosh is the son of a famous orc..So what? Hes pure trouble And making him the new horde warchief in cataclysm is BAD news.

[cowmuflage]

ISnt the reason he becomes the new warcheif becouse thrall gets captured by the allianc eor someone? I knwo thralls captured in cat

[Nevar]

No. Thall becomes the new guardian of tirisfal and leaves Garrosh in charge which is foolish. It hasnt been released that Thrall gets captured anywhere but he IS the new guardian.

[cowmuflage]

er yeah dude it has. "He appears on the Lost Isles, part of the goblin starting zone, where he is rescued by goblin players from an arcane prison onboard an Alliance warship." so yeah the alliance does capture him somehow. got that from wowwiki and thats pretty good for lore stuff.

[Azunara]

er yeah dude it has. "He appears on the Lost Isles, part of the goblin starting zone, where he is rescued by goblin players from an arcane prison onboard an Alliance warship." so yeah the alliance does capture him somehow. got that from wowwiki and thats pretty good for lore stuff.

Yeah, but...That's not entirely accurate. No one knows ANYTHING for sure. It can easily and quickly be changed. So while Wowwiki is good for some stuff, no one is really right when it comes to Cata. Everything is up in the air.

[Nevar]

^ The stuff I have is directly from an interview with a game designer himself. Point is even if he was rescued/captured he leaves Garrosh in charge and THAT is a direct quote. Btw Azu..I love your sig..GIR IS SO CUTE!! lol

[cowmuflage]

Nor can we say that the new warcheif is going to ruin everything, yes he may but he may not aswell. I mean Garrosh and Varian personalitys are VERY similar they are both quick to anger and like to hit first and think second they both could screw things up. I have a feeling they will both do some very dumb things.

[Nevar]

They may, If you go by the comics it tells you why Thrall is picked to become the new guardian and who is in fact after him of course they want him for a different reason and its not alliance, I forget the complete reason. And I do not know for sure Garrosh will screw up but the changes it seems hes making and the crime its CONFIRMED he will comit is atroscious and leaves a very sour taste for him in my mouth.

[Azunara]

^ The stuff I have is directly from an interview with a game designer himself. Point is even if he was rescued/captured he leaves Garrosh in charge and THAT is a direct quote. Btw Azu..I love your sig..GIR IS SO CUTE!! lol

Thanks! Ryno thought it up, Kara made it...I used it cause it fits my situation. xD

[Nevar]

Gir wants too licky your face! lol too too cute!

[Saturo]

What crime?

[cowmuflage]

so whatd did he do thats so bad?

[Azunara]

Didn't he supposedly murder Cairne?

And I'm not sure licking is the best thing. It's proof of torture, that's what it is!

Still resisting!

[Nevar]

Garrosh has been confirmed to try Carine for treason against the horde and find him guilty.. He then has Cairne killed... This leaves a SOUR taste in my mouth as this has come from a blizzard game designer. It isnt confirmed but many believe Garrosh is attempting to rebuild the old horde considering he also destroys Org and makes it new Org a barrack like structure. Blood elves and forsaken are forbid from being in the middle of Org as he thinks they arent strong enough to defend it.

Original post -Thrall will hand over the leadership of the Horde to Garrosh Hellscream, while he serves as a coordinator for both the Horde and Alliance forces in and effort to combat the new threat of the Naga and Black Dragonflight. Without Thrall to keep Garrosh in check, he declares open war on the Alliance. In the political upheaval Cairne Bloodhoof is implicated as a traitor to the Horde and murdered by Garrosh. Cairne's son Baine takes over as the new Tauren chieftan. This could explain why Baine was removed from the game in Patch 3.2.2, you can find more information about this in Ahmo Thunderhorn - replacement for Baine Bloodhoof?

[Karathyriel]

And before you say "But humans/night elves/gnomes/dwarves/draeni are bad too!" don't. You'd be talking about individuals, or groups of people who do not represent the ALLIANCE.

Well, I'm sorry but Durotar or the Barrens are clearly horde zones, aren't they?
Then keep in mind that there are Tiragarde Keep und Northwatch.

I wouldn't call military presence in enemy territory "talking about individuals" or "not representing the Alliance".

I never said that all the horde guys are good guys.
The orcs are conquerors who don't even belong to Azeroth and aside from Darkspears or Revantusks trolls aren't very polite or friendly either.
I just can't stand this "alliance good, horde bad, must kill horde, don't fight back" any more.

This is not a game about being good or being evil.
This is not a game about what is wrong or what is right.
This is a game about war.

So let's make war, alright?

And before anyone here gets me wrong:
I'm a role-player. I am 40 years old now and I started role-playing 25 years ago. I don't think anyone prefering to play alliance is stupid, I don't believe in humans always being good and orcs always being bad. I am a role-player. I try to take in as much as I can and then decide what I want to be.
So, when I started playing WoW, I chose to take on the role of a warrior. A big, muscular guy wearing plate and wielding huge weapons. An individual, that was ready to fight and die for his people. And the Tauren, with all their spirituality, the love of nature, their pride and their honor, they immediately took to me and so Regash was born. A huge but gentle Tauren, wandering the planes of Mulgore, learning the ways of his people and then go out and seek wisdom, honor in battle and pride in being the earthmothers child.
Could I ever choose to play an enemy of my so loved Tauren warrior? No, I can't. And so my decision stands, I'm horde for life, no matter what the future will bring.

So, if you see me writing "for the horde" or showing off loyalty to the horde, that is just my inner Tauren warrior and not meant offensive.

I hope you all realize that.

----------***----------

ISnt the reason he becomes the new warcheif becouse thrall gets captured by the allianc eor someone? I knwo thralls captured in cat

As far as I know, one of the starting quests of the goblins will be freeing Thrall from alliance prison and so make the goblins join the horde. I don't have it signed by Ghostcrawler, but I'm pretty sure I've read it somewhere.

"He appears on the Lost Isles, part of the goblin starting zone, where he is rescued by goblin players from an arcane prison onboard an Alliance warship."

See? So I didn't imagine it!

[Nevar]

Aye I agree Kara - I chose night elves because I loved the lore surrounding them and their zones took my breath away. There can be good and badon both sides. Thrall is good and Carine is good.. BUT there can be bad on both sides such as the Defias Brotherhood or such as you mentioned different trolls and orcs.. Those that turn to the burning legion and such.

[Ryai]

I had a long post all thought out, but then I realized it'd fall mostly on deaf ears. So I'll sum it up: Varianns not that bad, has plenty of reason for wanting to destroy the orcs. The orcs are mostly NOT THAT GOOD, and want to go back to their warring ways. Its why they have an arena ((The one that Variann was forced to fight in, not the goblin run one)) and why Garrosh has a following at all. The rest of the horde is a mishmash of races who are just coming together for protections sake, and Thrall is a very charismatic leader.

Actually Palla that's kinda wrong. Orcs are 50/50 from the quests I've seen. Yes by the majority alot are still blood thirsty savages, but alot still aren't. So trying to class them all as a majority of 'bad' or 'not good' is the same as saying 'the majority of humans are good' when no that's not right either. It's alot of grey area with very little black and white. I have done evil quests- and I have done good quests. And there seems to be nearly as many good quests, as bad quests, from the horde.

Varian is somewhat bad because if he still wants to destroy the orcs, he is no better than that he seeks to destroy, if he can't see the good from the bad.

That's why I can't stand him, sure he has his good points, but to easily does he want to give into his blinding, cripling hatred, no matter how he grew up.

So I've had a tough life, I've been betrayed countless times. Been left to rot. Been made the brunt of jokes and used by people to get higher power or better relations with others. I still managed to overcome it- with a few problems, and I have made a few friends.

Varian seems to intent to cling to his hatred first in my eyes.

And before you say "But humans/night elves/gnomes/dwarves/draeni are bad too!" don't. You'd be talking about individuals, or groups of people who do not represent the ALLIANCE.

Yet these people aren't really dealt with? So obviously the alliance don't really care about their own stains?

The orcs? Are the survivors left behind when the gate back to Outlands was sealed. That means their CHILDREN may not be guilty, but they sure as hell are. And as far as that goes, we aren't even going to go into the undead, or the blood elves. As far as I am concerned, the only 'good' race are the tauren, whom I love dearly. Even the trolls have been a dangerous race for many years at this point in WoW history, though their main beef was always with the elves.

That's somewhat confusing- the children aren't guilty, but the adults are. Yet Varian wants to destroy the orcs as you've said, for the most part. Which would include Children. And while he has shown some kindness to Saurfang, I am thinking it is only going to be a one time only thing.

Varian is just as guilty as anyone else, tbh.

And yes Trolls are dangerous- they're an old race tied to powerful paragons of power. And in a few cases, were corrupted by their own gods, or they abandond their gods to rot. Sure there's the cannibalism thing, but they're overcoming it! Vol'jin is a good leader, and he'd not be with Thrall otherwise, even after his people were safe. He realizes things need to change and they need to evolve a bit more.

And tbh horde trolls are already win because A: they were never abused by there gods. B: they never abused their gods. C: they never sold their gods out and killed them like in northrend.

GOOD ENUF FOR ME.

Speaking of which, that's probably one of the main reasons that the blood elves joining the horde was such a load of crap, they'd never stoop so low as to join with their ancestral enemy. But Blizzard can write things the way they want.

Ok, they were cut off by the scourge. They were basically left to rot. They most likely were hurting, dying and in need of serious help. It's not so much that they went to the horde Palla, but the horde, specifically LADY SYLVANAS, came to them, would she abandon her people? Hell no- and there's also a quest where you have to prove yourself to the horde basically. And there are npcs that REFUSE to speak to trolls. You act like there is no hatred in the game, when there still is. This wasn't a relationship born out of lolz- it's not like the Draenei. It's NOT as bad as the Draenei.

And just listen to the represenitives being lead around Silvermoon sometime- the trolls don't like the belves anymiore than the belves like the trolls.

>.>

[Karathyriel]

Did anyone ever notice the reputation problem?

Any kind of alliance toon, level one, absolutely not moved a step, will be "friendly" with all other races of the alliance.
If you create a new horde toon, this is different! A new blood elf or forsaken toon will be friendly with blood elves and forsaken, but only neutral with orcs, tauren or troll.
A new orc, tauren or troll will be friendly to those three races but only neutral to blood elves and forsaken.

You see, the horde races aren't really that happy with each other.

And another design thing that favors alliance. One of thousand others...