Dawn of the Blessing OOC

[Senna-Umbreon]

Yep, I'm totally in the same mindset as you guys on this. Only thing I'd like to mention is it's actually probably 50/50 on whether a lesser member of the species takes on the role of "prime/alpha" of the species or if a new one is simply born in the former one's place (which is generally what I think we've done in the past? like with Groudon and Dialga and Mewtwo? cause in the case of those three, if I'm remembering correctly, new Legends of their species were born like RIGHT after they died pretty much)

also on the note of Legendary headcanons and stuff I like to think that a lot of Legends (particularly the big scary important ones that there aren't that many of) can likely reproduce asexually, because sometimes there isn't always the option to have a mate of the same species. or a Ditto, because you know.. Ditto. there's actually probably a decent amount of Legends out there that are children of a Legend and a Ditto, in fact.

[Falcon]

Senna, what you said about Ditto reminds me of a hilarious comic I read over on DeviantART before involving an artist's Reshiram and a Ditto. XD But, with your mention of some Legendaries reproducing asexually, THAT has me wondering if when Yveltal cocoons/Xerneas does the tree thing, would it be the same individual reborn or would it be a different one alltogether? And i'm probably not helping at all, am I? XD

[Moonlost]

It's an awesome idea! The Pokemon RPs I used to be in years ago were strict about there being only one Legendary of each species at a time (excluding Mew and Mewtwo), hence my question in the first place. ^_^;

I think that's why I really love this particular rule. Sometimes, a lot of people want to play a legendary - and in the anime at least it's been shown that there are multiples of some of them out there. This serves as a really nice way to keep the continuity of "one powerful legendary" while still allowing people to roll up other legendary characters.

As for Xernias/Yvetal? Hmm, I'd say that it'd depend on what sort of a state they were in before they went into hibernation, as it were. If they were heavily damaged or near death, then yes, I'd say that they'd regenerate into a new doctor persona. If they do it for some other means, I'd say they'd keep their original personality. Maybe a couple of things change, but in whole they'd still be the same pokemon.

[Falcon]

It's an awesome idea! The Pokemon RPs I used to be in years ago were strict about there being only one Legendary of each species at a time (excluding Mew and Mewtwo), hence my question in the first place. ^_^;

I think that's why I really love this particular rule. Sometimes, a lot of people want to play a legendary - and in the anime at least it's been shown that there are multiples of some of them out there. This serves as a really nice way to keep the continuity of "one powerful legendary" while still allowing people to roll up other legendary characters.

As for Xernias/Yvetal? Hmm, I'd say that it'd depend on what sort of a state they were in before they went into hibernation, as it were. If they were heavily damaged or near death, then yes, I'd say that they'd regenerate into a new doctor persona. If they do it for some other means, I'd say they'd keep their original personality. Maybe a couple of things change, but in whole they'd still be the same pokemon.

That makes sense to me!

[Senna-Umbreon]

Although, to be fair on the Creation Trio/Arceus thing.. I CAN actually see maybe one or two other members of those species existing sometimes. Yes, even Arceus. They would just be.. Significantly weaker than the prime member of the species, and probably stay more or less as babies until they're actually needed. (Because honestly, I CAN see Arceus thinking that maaaaybe he needs an extra little Arceus, just on the VERY off chance something bad happens to him. Because I can see shit getting REALLY bad in the time between an Arceus dying and a new one being born. Like REAAAAAALLY bad shit. So despite how unlikely the chance of Arceus dying is, I can see him having a little mini Arceus around. And maybe there's just a teeny little Dialga/Palkia/Giratina dorking around somewhere as well. But like the mini Arceus, they'd probably be stuck being teeny little things until they're needed in some way.)

[Azunara]

In my opinion what they really need the creation trio alive and well for is simply to keep the world itself stable. Dialga, for example--lore dictates its heartbeat/life/existence keeps time flowing. If it died there'd be a point where time just didn't work--hence why a new Dialga hatches almost immediately. I like to think that for the Creation trio it's INCREDIBLY important that they create an egg with their power and hide it somewhere safe as soon as they can, to keep that power going, and the dying Legend will likely have someone protect the new kid--usually their Champions, but you know sometimes it gets weird. Case in point Cro.

I dunno about the tiny kidlet thing that's just me.

And yeah, I can see the same thing for Yvetal/Xerneas when they die.

[Azunara]

Veth/Forrest as broskis 2014

Just so we're all on the same page

[Falcon]

I AM DYING, AZU! XD But, yes, those two are gonna be such awkward, dorky BFFs.

On a more serious note, perhaps we should gather all this stuff on how Legendaries work and either file it in its own thread here on the RP board or on someone's DA account for safe keeping/easy referral? Just an idea!

[Senna-Umbreon]

To be fair, while I can see the point of saying there's not many members of the Creation Trio.. I mean, they're the Creation Trio... Isn't saying they're unique sort of missing the entire point of us normally going "Oh there's more Legends of each species" so people can actually play those Legends if we want to? And we already have an idea in place to explain WHY having, like.. more than one Dialga around doesn't screw things up on a regular basis. The whole alpha thing. Time itself relies on the alpha Dialga (In this case, Cro.), and any other Dialga is just.. Sort there, and they're likely significantly weaker, yadda yadda yadda. Same general idea goes for Palkia and Giratina.

For Arceus, I'm willing to roll with just one Arceus, MAINLY because.. I don't think anyone is super interested in actually playing an Arceus. XD We've all sort of gone with this idea of "Arceus is there and sort of a free-for-all character" thing for this verse, I feel. Hell, in a way, the same goes for Giratina. Sure, Ruby played him originally in WoD, but since he's sort of become a more free-for-all character. But the Creation Trio is pretty popular, really well Dialga/Giratina are. no one seems to care for Palkia lol, and I feel like others should be able to actually have one of those species if they really, really want to? It just feels very odd to have them as unique after going against the whole "One Legend" idea specifically so people can play the Legends they want to. Partly because I admit, I wouldn't mind a Giratina OC myself. I love that ghost dragon >.>

Anyway, writing out an actual reference for the Legendaries and such might be a good idea. I'd be willing to do it, honestly. I'd probably end up filling it with five bazillion headcanons, though. XD I have WAY too many Legendary headcanons. OOPS.

also I swear I'll make a post in the Johto thread soon. I don't know why I'm having so much trouble typing up a post there, but I am lol

[Moonlost]

On a more serious note, perhaps we should gather all this stuff on how Legendaries work and either file it in its own thread here on the RP board or on someone's DA account for safe keeping/easy referral? Just an idea!

We actually have a Wiki that serves as a repository for all this sort of nonsense. It still needs a lot of work though, but we could well put a topic up for our legendary rules

[Azunara]

I'm not really gonna further touch the whole creation trio thing anymore. I've stated my take on it and I'd rather see what other people think anyways.

[Moonlost]

Eh, honestly I admit I'm not bothered one way or the other. Although chalk it up to personal bias; with maybe the exception of Giratina I have no real interest in RPing one of the creation trio. They're just not my thing.
I can certainly concede the point of having an option for if people do want to RP one of those species though, although I almost feel that if we do want to go with the lesser legendary thing for them, they should be wayyyyyyy less powerful than the "prime" of that species. Far more so than other "lesser" legendaries. Only the Prime Dialga can manipulate time, only the Prime Palkia can warp space, only the Prime Giratina can... goodness, uh, manipulate the distortion world or something like that. I'd also imagine that they'd be very much uncommon.

It occurs to me that our version of the Distortion World is weird - I think that in other canons it's more of a space-between-worlds-atral-plane type deal, while we basically use it as the Underworld. Not that I mind, I actually really like that interpretation, it's just something to note. XD

[HoneyShuckle]

Well, I do think that perhaps the "one member of the creation trio and Arceus" may have been used for a while (as in, almost all of time), but the world is getting to the point where everyone wants power, everyone is causing trouble, and Dusa was a massive threat to arceus's very life. So maybe these back up legendaries are a... New thing. You can't regenerate if something has your soul under their control, after all. But it could also be a "super top secret nobody look" arceus secret. Arceus is god, god doesn't take orders from anyone, but the idea that something COULD kill you as a god would be a little unnerving, I would believe, at least, after a while. Eventually arceus may actually show the prime creation trio or something, but for the most part, the world wouldn't know.

Just an idea.

[Azunara]

so basically I suck putting into coherent words why I'm against it and I can understand I'm probably biased but whatev

On the one hand if we do decide to go with it, I'd be okay with Moon's proposal. basically incredibly watered down versions that really just sort of exist. the problem is though logically those characters wouldn't DO anything. like thinking about it practically 'they're a big secret' and 'super important' to the point where they can't be touched/harmed/etc which sort of ruins the whole point. you have a character that basically sits and does nothing until maybe one day another person decides to kill off their legendary so yours can matter

i mean that's sort of why having hybrids/champions help even though it's not the same? but i've always felt like they're...bigger and badder. like there's a reason why they're limited. hell, in-game they could completely destroy the world. and whereas there's evidence supporting pretty much any other species of legend being multiples, the creation trio do seem pretty unique. (i mean, i guess you could argue the tao trio fall under that category, but eh I can see the logic of the two originals producing more if only because i'd rather not get into that can of worms, especially as they don't seem as powerful as, again, creation trio)

okay there i have a more vaguely coherent thought to it all i swear i'm done don't hit me

[Falcon]

Wow, what did I start? o_o

Moon, I honestly forgot about the wiki since I never found a link for it, but I've got it bookmarked now, thanks!

[HoneyShuckle]

Point taken Azu.

But how weak are we talking here? I understand not weak like a magikarp, but striping a palkia and dialga completely of time and space seems... I don't know, off. I understand not being able to go like "MUAHAHAHAHAH, IM GOING TO SPEED UP TIME AROUND ME SO I DON'T HAVE TO WAIT AS LONG IN LINE" or "IM GOING TO SWAP EARTH'S PLACE WITH MARS." More like. "Look, cool time stream thingie mabobers" and "look, I can move this rock."

[Azunara]

But they're not even supposed to really have their powers until the old Legendary dies. I thought that was the point.

[HoneyShuckle]

Maybe I'm just confused. Let me go to basics then.

I do like multiple creation trio.

There.

Now nothing else I say matters.

[Moonlost]

Well, here's how'd I'd do things, if we assume we want to go with the "One Prime, many others" mode with the creation trio. Using Dialga as an example here since I can better articulate the concept of time-related powers. (Chronomancy!)

Okay, so Dialga Prime (Cro) would have all the abilities you'd associate with Dialga. He can slow down, speed up or otherwise distort time. He could theoretically reverse time, or perhaps slip into the timestream to slip either into a past timeline or a future one. One might even argue that he could use this to traverse to alternate timelines, although such a thing would likely leave him amazingly weak.
Moreover, he has the ability to use Time as a weapon with his special ability, Roar of Time. Any within the cone of this attack are rapidly aged and de-aged at fluctuating pace, stressing out the body at a molecular level.
A non-prime Dialga would have limited access to these powers. He could sense the flow of time and, if in a fight with Cro, would be able to "follow" him into his various manipulations. If Cro were to slow down time for everyone except himself, as an example, Bob the lesser dialga would also be immune to this. However Bob would not be able to slow down time himself.
I'd even hesitate to allow Bob access to Roar of Time, just because I see that attack as an expression of dialga's mastery over his domain. Bob would essentially a powerful dragon/steel pokemon with the potential of becoming the lord of time.
Could make for an interesting character arc though. What if Bob resented the fact that his birthright was held by someone he thought wasn't worthy of it?

Of course, all of this is a bit.... not important right now? I don't think anyone has plans on any additional creation trio characters right now. It might be worth working it out for future RPs, but if it starts to get too heated I suggest just leaving it as an open topic and ignoring it until it becomes relevant.

[Silvershade]

someone please make a dialga called bob