Gara

[Rodhake]

I didn't find anything interesting in Shattrath, the only spot I can't get to is that center part on the water. Those Observers kill me on sight, can't really get by them. And the one time that I did, there was a big ass Shadowflame Terror Demon waiting for me on the inside, some rare that basically takes up the whole room. Once again, I'm out of ideas.

Edit: The only...ONLY place that I haven't checked has been Ashran. I really doubt they'd use it, but its worth a shot....Gonna grab some more lanterns and then head over there.

if u want i can show u everything i killed all the rares . only thing is be careful with teleports there are at least 2 rooms thats locked . most of the rares u can solo but the one i the pic u need atleast 3 people to open the prison and to get the buffs and achievement u need 4

[Zgar]

the rare here u have to open all the trapped mobs to free the elite

You see, this is the type of thing I'm talking about. I thought I completely cleared Shattrath with the exception of the center, but I have never, EVER seen this. These zones have such a level of complexity to them that without a hint or two, we're basically blind in the water.

Edit: We should kidnap Muffin and force him to give us a hint on the next step, I don't mind struggling on the next one but this one has taken WAY too long.

[Rodhake]

how about den of secrets in smw is it quests for something or? haven't figured out how to activate those shadow orbs

[Wain]

It's been really fun following this and seeing so many Petopians contribute and work hard towards a solution. Instead of a group quest this has become an entire community quest

This is an amazingly epic and complex quest for WoW, where usually the quests (at least these days) are linear and all but tell you where to go next. Also, it really shows how dedicated Jeremy / Muffinus is when he's gone to all this effort for just us hunters. I'm loving it

[jensketch]

Wain, are you in the beta doing all this stuff? Just wondering It isn't so "fun" when you're the one spending hours upon hours upon hours beating your head against a brick wall.

Yes, its for all Hunters why we do it. It is. But the brute force method isn't any fun anymore.

[Lupen202]

It was fun, and I really enjoyed working with all of the other hunters on Beta to solve this thing... At first. I think I can safely say we've all had enough and are pretty worn out now. I love figuring out puzzles and such, but we need clues & hints to at least point us in the right direction. If Om'ra wasn't right next to Gara, how long would it have taken us to find those berries? And without some data mining we wouldn't have known about the effigy. Then we had to scour each zone killing random mobs to figure out where each item needed for the effigy dropped. And now we can't even rely on data mining to figure out what to do... We know what spells are involved but not how to trigger them.

It's just a wild goose chase at this point and the only way without a hint we'll progress is if we randomly happen upon something, but we've literally checked EVERYWHERE in beta, especially in SMV.

And come live this will be a walk in the park, lets not forget. When live rolls around everyone will know what to do from WoWhead - what to kill, where to go, how to use the items... It'll still be a very interesting and fun quest as I love Gara and Om'ra's story but... For us in beta it's dragging out a bit too much.


edit: What Jen said. I can't summarize my thoughts xD

[moonone]

did a little more testing with the Insane Nullifier - it seems like if you collect enough of the crystals you become immune to the void stuff on the ground. Even after the crystal buff falls off.

This lead me to thinking about triggers and stuff

triggers - things that you do to progress thorough something
for example - getting the shadowberries triggered dialogue option with gara
trigger having the effigy made the grave appear in front of gara

we know from the data mined stuff that this all involves triggers (which include buffs and items)

should we be looking for another thing like the grave which appears while we either have the lantern in inventory (possible trigger) or by having the buff on (another possible trigger) - this could mean we might have missed some object somewhere in the world (like the grave).

also far fetched theory here - but relating to triggers - grabbing the crystals made me finally immune, there is a trigger - maybe we need to go around and find void like stuff that can possibly cause a trigger. If I knew of areas like this in each zone - I'd be very suspect. It would match the item collecting in each zone.

while on my pondering - I also wondered why FFR had two effigy items - I guess some zone had to - but still.

also - to clear up - the void lantern does only drop after you trigger the effigy part - I did so much stuff over there before we had the effigy part done and the void lamp never dropped. - Trigger.

From my point of view - I think the way it is supposed to go is that you find gara (by word of mouth horde would hear about gara) - but most likely alli would come across. Do the berry thing - this would all be done while your leveling in Shadowmoon.
Then as you leveled up you would come across the effigy items - more likely than not just dropping them - but you might remember seeing them or be a hoarder and hold on to them cause bop and white. You would finally come across the crude effigy - and read the text and be like - oh hmm. By time you get to Nagrand you'd finally get the small fruit. And make the effigy - maybe not really knowing what to do - but hey - that grave now appearing at Gara (who wouldn't check there now and then) would certainly make you use it probably. So there you have it - Muffinus's intent I believe - and also explaining his cryptic hint (try leveling more and it may come to you)

keep all this in mind - and maybe it will help sort some stuff out or bring some new ideas to the table. You don't have to be in game running around for ideas to come to you O.-

btw - thanks all for taking the time to read my rants - I know they go on and ramble around a bit at times

[Zgar]

did a little more testing with the Insane Nullifier - it seems like if you collect enough of the crystals you become immune to the void stuff on the ground. Even after the crystal buff falls off.

This lead me to thinking about triggers and stuff

triggers - things that you do to progress thorough something
for example - getting the shadowberries triggered dialogue option with gara
trigger having the effigy made the grave appear in front of gara

we know from the data mined stuff that this all involves triggers (which include buffs and items)

should we be looking for another thing like the grave which appears while we either have the lantern in inventory (possible trigger) or by having the buff on (another possible trigger) - this could mean we might have missed some object somewhere in the world (like the grave).

also far fetched theory here - but relating to triggers - grabbing the crystals made me finally immune, there is a trigger - maybe we need to go around and find void like stuff that can possibly cause a trigger. If I knew of areas like this in each zone - I'd be very suspect. It would match the item collecting in each zone.

while on my pondering - I also wondered why FFR had two effigy items - I guess some zone had to - but still.

also - to clear up - the void lantern does only drop after you trigger the effigy part - I did so much stuff over there before we had the effigy part done and the void lamp never dropped. - Trigger.

From my point of view - I think the way it is supposed to go is that you find gara (by word of mouth horde would hear about gara) - but most likely alli would come across. Do the berry thing - this would all be done while your leveling in Shadowmoon.
Then as you leveled up you would come across the effigy items - more likely than not just dropping them - but you might remember seeing them or be a hoarder and hold on to them cause bop and white. You would finally come across the crude effigy - and read the text and be like - oh hmm. By time you get to Nagrand you'd finally get the small fruit. And make the effigy - maybe not really knowing what to do - but hey - that grave now appearing at Gara (who wouldn't check there now and then) would certainly make you use it probably. So there you have it - Muffinus's intent I believe - and also explaining his cryptic hint (try leveling more and it may come to you)

keep all this in mind - and maybe it will help sort some stuff out or bring some new ideas to the table. You don't have to be in game running around for ideas to come to you O.-

btw - thanks all for taking the time to read my rants - I know they go on and ramble around a bit at times

This is actually an amazing perspective on the subject. And again, it leads me to believe the following: If all of this was to be done during the progression of leveling and exploring, then what comes after that? Pillars of fate is mainly a hub for Assaults and Operations, so what would we do after that point? Dungeons, Raids, or Dailies. Now, which one should we focus on? We've done SMBG, the dungeon we suspected to hold the key, now what should we focus on next? I used to think Auchindoun was a good spot but someone brought up the fact that it is more of a Draenei burial ground. Now, going over that has made me think: we're not just dealing with orcs, we're dealing with the void, why would Auchindoun be out of the question? In Shattrath, there were plenty of Draenei being consumed by the void. Its definitely a place we should check out, this next step must be in a phase or a dungeon.

These are just my thoughts on the subject.

[jensketch]

Well I'm trying to put it all in perspective of other quests that WoW has had in the past. What was the Green Fire quest like? What did that involve? Did parts of it seem so weird that you HAD to check an outside website like wowhead to figure out what to do? If so -- then it was likely difficult to figure out on the PTR as well.

Are quests really this tricky to figure out? Has anyone tested something like this before and it's been similar?


We need something, I'm starting to pick on stupid people in general chat. And I only do that when I'm really cranky. lol

[moonone]

OK - shit pants moment

Go look in quest achievments - ONe of Us! one of Us! - if that's not something you can call me jimney cricket!!!!!

go go go?

oh yeah - which could mean we need the quests for the area to get into void - to see something with buff on

think that is pretty darn enticing - who has had daily - went into void - and used buff - and looked around?????

[Darkbrew]

I agree with the basic intent of the quest and collecting items. With that in mind the lantern drops from a level 100 area, so one possibility is that you have to be level 100 to complete the quest (I know most people searching are, but not everyone is).

It also could mean that we might need to do a few more things at level 100 to be eligible for the trigger, although I would think that if you could loot the lantern then you would be eligible for what comes after. I don't think there are too many steps left to go, probably just this last hurdle and we're good to go.

And remember as frustrating as it is right now, we'll all probably have Gara w/in an hour once we solve it and it goes live

[moonone]

the more I think about it the more it just seems so right. I know someone mentioned earlier they had the quest - uselessx I think?
do you remember going into the void?

[Lupen202]

The quest would have to be obtainable by both factions though? I don't know where Shadowmoon enclave is though.. could be an area to check out regardless of the quest/achieves.

[jensketch]

What quest achievement? Which questline? That was so stream-of-consciousness I could barely make heads or tails of it.

Which is totally and completely how I'd be if I thought I found something, too. <3 <3 <3

edit; I found it.

I really don't think they are going to have a Quest achievement like that tied to this questline - I just don't see it.

Shadowmoon Enclave is Pillar of Fate:

Shadowmoon Enclave

[moonone]

ok - ready for this - sit down!

Go to achievement ui
click on quests
click on Daenor
scroll down to Shadowmoon Enclave achievements
read the One of us One of us achievement
did you catch the part about being in the void realm - good

So - what we have here is the need to get the garrison campaign quests for Shadowmoon Enclave (which is the area lantern is.
Getting it yet - if we weren't so nuts and hadn't been there when we were stuck in effigy part - nobody probably would have ran over there and found the lantern (well ok we are nuts so maybe we would) - but think about it from a you don't know on live point of view.
Going back to my long post about triggers. You'd get the campaign quests - kill one of those guys - and bam - the void lantern. Oh and guess what while you are there on the quests you can enter the void realm.
Are you following me?

If this is not the next step - then I will be blown away. It just makes way to much sense to me.

What do you guys think?

oh - pretty sure alli and horde have similar campaign quests no?

and yes - going by the other achievments pillars of light is shadowmoon enclave I'd assume?
unless there is another level 100 area called shadowmoon enclave.

that is all!

[Leorina]

Hey all, just started this last night and got the void lantern before crashing.

During work today I had an idea, what if a few hunters streamed this? People could be giving suggestions that we could try out.

Also, is there a list of suggestions that have been tried and tested? Would be awesome if we could keep it updated in the OP.

Just a thought.

[Wain]

Wain, are you in the beta doing all this stuff? Just wondering It isn't so "fun" when you're the one spending hours upon hours upon hours beating your head against a brick wall.
Yes, its for all Hunters why we do it. It is. But the brute force method isn't any fun anymore.

No, I'm not working on it. I did earlier but I barely have enough time with everything else as it is. I work a full day job, then come home and work on Warcraft Mounts and Petopia stuff and find some time to relax.

If it's frustrating you so badly, you can always step back for a while. There are a lot of people brainstorming it and it will continue while you take a breather.

[uselessx]

From my point of view - I think the way it is supposed to go is that you find gara (by word of mouth horde would hear about gara) - but most likely alli would come across. Do the berry thing - this would all be done while your leveling in Shadowmoon.
Then as you leveled up you would come across the effigy items - more likely than not just dropping them - but you might remember seeing them or be a hoarder and hold on to them cause bop and white. You would finally come across the crude effigy - and read the text and be like - oh hmm. By time you get to Nagrand you'd finally get the small fruit. And make the effigy - maybe not really knowing what to do - but hey - that grave now appearing at Gara (who wouldn't check there now and then) would certainly make you use it probably. So there you have it - Muffinus's intent I believe - and also explaining his cryptic hint (try leveling more and it may come to you)

I agree with you that an alliance hunter leveling up would likely come across Gara without any guidance, and by possible coincidence have the berries on them. They then continue questing to 100 picking up the effigy items along the way.
It makes sense on alliance as your introduced to the steps in a logical order:

• Find Gara and do both dialog options
• Finish questing in SMV and move onto Gorgrond.
• Find Crude effigy along the questing trail. This is important as it puts the other items into some sort of context.
• Find the bowl, incense and fruit on your questing journey to 100.
• Now they find themselves stuck without the cloth and bone, likely having to resort to external help to find these items (which horde characters would have found naturally, but without the context of the crude effigy)

Here's where it all breaks down. You have all the items and make the effigy. You click to use it but it gives the error 'Requires disturbed grave'. That has no meaning to the player and no logical link to Gara. We had the benefit of data mining items added in a beta build and experimentation got us results. Had we not being doing this work now it's quite unlikely that someone would see those effigy items and link them to gara when released among all the new items/spells/quests.
Lets say some hunter does stumble back to Gara after having this effigy completed in his bags. Sees the grave object and continues the chain. What next? he finds the lantern a few days later while doing the garrison assault on Pillar of _(?). He uses it and it makes him all shadowy.. cool novelty item, right? He's supposed to work out the connection between the effigy completion and this lantern dropping all of a sudden?

Now from horde perspective, I'm not entirely sure. One question I have is, do the effigy items drop without completing the first steps with Gara? If the answer is no, then a horde player would likely never figure any of this out without reading a guide on wowhead.

Don't get me wrong, however. I love the concept of this obscure story driven quest for hunters. It sure as hell beats camping a spawn point. I guess it makes sense for them to keep it a mystery and add context and clues to fill in the blanks without making it so glaringly obvious that it just becomes a mundane quest to collect your prize. I'm sure with the smallest guidance at this point we would make another breakthrough and continue our quest. Just look what we achieved up to this point. With a few teasing comments from the dev to rile us up, and a tiny bit of data mining, we where able to give these items a context, find all the effigy items (which could have come from any creature across draenor) in less than 2 hours. We don't need our hands held through this, just pointed in the right direction.

[uselessx]

From my point of view - I think the way it is supposed to go is that you find gara (by word of mouth horde would hear about gara) - but most likely alli would come across. Do the berry thing - this would all be done while your leveling in Shadowmoon.
Then as you leveled up you would come across the effigy items - more likely than not just dropping them - but you might remember seeing them or be a hoarder and hold on to them cause bop and white. You would finally come across the crude effigy - and read the text and be like - oh hmm. By time you get to Nagrand you'd finally get the small fruit. And make the effigy - maybe not really knowing what to do - but hey - that grave now appearing at Gara (who wouldn't check there now and then) would certainly make you use it probably. So there you have it - Muffinus's intent I believe - and also explaining his cryptic hint (try leveling more and it may come to you)

I agree with you that an alliance hunter leveling up would likely come across Gara without any guidance, and by possible coincidence have the berries on them. They then continue questing to 100 picking up the effigy items along the way.
It makes sense on alliance as your introduced to the steps in a logical order:

• Find Gara and do both dialog options
• Finish questing in SMV and move onto Gorgrond.
• Find Crude effigy along the questing trail. This is important as it puts the other items into some sort of context.
• Find the bowl, incense and fruit on your questing journey to 100.
• Now they find themselves stuck without the cloth and bone, likely having to resort to external help to find these items (which horde characters would have found naturally, but without the context of the crude effigy)

Here's where it all breaks down. You have all the items and make the effigy. You click to use it but it gives the error 'Requires disturbed grave'. That has no meaning to the player and no logical link to Gara. We had the benefit of data mining items added in a beta build and experimentation got us results. Had we not being doing this work now it's quite unlikely that someone would see those effigy items and link them to gara when released among all the new items/spells/quests.
Lets say some hunter does stumble back to Gara after having this effigy completed in his bags. Sees the grave object and continues the chain. What next? he finds the lantern a few days later while doing the garrison assault on Pillar of _(?). He uses it and it makes him all shadowy.. cool novelty item, right? He's supposed to work out the connection between the effigy completion and this lantern dropping all of a sudden?

EDIT:

Going back to my long post about triggers. You'd get the campaign quests - kill one of those guys - and bam - the void lantern. Oh and guess what while you are there on the quests you can enter the void realm.

This would give the above context and make sense. Sounds interesting.

Now from horde perspective, I'm not entirely sure. One question I have is, do the effigy items drop without completing the first steps with Gara? If the answer is no, then a horde player would likely never figure any of this out without reading a guide on wowhead.

Don't get me wrong, however. I love the concept of this obscure story driven quest for hunters. It sure as hell beats camping a spawn point. I guess it makes sense for them to keep it a mystery and add context and clues to fill in the blanks without making it so glaringly obvious that it just becomes a mundane quest to collect your prize. I'm sure with the smallest guidance at this point we would make another breakthrough and continue our quest. Just look what we achieved up to this point. With a few teasing comments from the dev to rile us up, and a tiny bit of data mining, we where able to give these items a context, find all the effigy items (which could have come from any creature across draenor) in less than 2 hours. We don't need our hands held through this, just pointed in the right direction.

[Wain]

I think you're right that it's not a quest that is meant to be solved all at once. You're supposed to put the pieces together as you level.

However it's also the first release of the quest on beta, and Muffinus is following this thread so if there's anything that really doesn't make sense at least he's getting feedback