Junrei wrote:Remember that lovely Claws a Shirvallah talent druids have that was freakin' rad? Completely flippin' USELESS if you plan to do just about anything beyond LFR and it ticks me off cause I find the other two talents to be boring as hell for alternatives. However, if I wanna raid competitively, I've no choice but to take Bloody Claws. *headdesk*
This is one of the main reasons I left the raid scene. Too often I had to make the choice between raiding on a serious basis or play the way I enjoyed. It comes down to a choice that we have to make and live with, but I hated the fact I Was being forced to make it. I miss raiding with an organized group, and I love the team effort, but I refuse to sacrifice enjoyment in order to gain a few % higher numbers (even from Normal mode guilds )
Junrei wrote:Remember that lovely Claws a Shirvallah talent druids have that was freakin' rad? Completely flippin' USELESS if you plan to do just about anything beyond LFR and it ticks me off cause I find the other two talents to be boring as hell for alternatives. However, if I wanna raid competitively, I've no choice but to take Bloody Claws. *headdesk*
This is one of the main reasons I left the raid scene. Too often I had to make the choice between raiding on a serious basis or play the way I enjoyed. It comes down to a choice that we have to make and live with, but I hated the fact I Was being forced to make it. I miss raiding with an organized group, and I love the team effort, but I refuse to sacrifice enjoyment in order to gain a few % higher numbers (even from Normal mode guilds )
Yeah, it really sucks. I do it if only to raid with my lovies because I like to raid casually. If the gap wasn't so big, it wouldn't be an issue, but the game is insanely huge and it sucks. Like an easy fix? Give Claws of Shirvalla Crit instead of the craptastical versatility. It'd be atleast somewhat competitive then to the point unless you're a serious min/maxer.
Wain wrote:I'm really hoping they configure it so the pet is entirely optional. I love that people who are devoted to MM get to use their pets if they want, but I would also love it if the option was there for MM to have no pet at all and deal the same damage. And I don't mean a glyph or talent, I mean seamless, like if the pet is put away then your damage is automatically still the same without you taking any further action other than dismissing your pet. Is this what they're aiming for? I hope so.
I totally agree actually. I'd like to see Lone Wolf be a buff that pops up when your pet is dismissed and disappears when you re-summon it. As much as I want my pet with me, I don't like that pet-less MM hunters have to sacrifice a talent. At least make having a pet the talent and LW baseline instead imho - lots of people are genuinely excited for not having a pet and I think that's awesome (plus I plan to go that route on an alt!)
Pepsi Jedi wrote:I may be the odd one out but I liked MM with no pet. It made the three specs very much different.
"Get up close and fight WITH your pet"
"Stand back and COMMAND your pet, and fight from ranged"
"SNIPER" (Though I still think they should have gotten the gun.)
Giving MM back the pet seems... ehh... like caving to shut people up. Which sometimes can be good (Points to Haiti) But sometimes... ehh...
Not for... nothing but MM haven't been using pets for a while. I never saw MM running around with pets in the last expansion. They went MM to get the DPS boost from lone wolf and never looked back.
That's not to say that MM hunters aren't 'Hunter's' they just express it in different ways.
Now it's "Weak gun+Strong pet" vs "Strong bow+weakpet" and that just doesn't 'Live the fantasy:" to me
Survival at least is significantly different and innovative.
With the 'add back the pet' i will say it might be the only way I'd play MM now.... because I love my pets. I __________HATE______________ The BM Artifact.. so if I can go MM and get the Bow+A pet....
I'm going to have to weigh it. MM+Bow+Pet vs BM my fave and long running spec.. with Fugly gun, but with added shockdog.
You see this as wrong
Blizz didn't gave back pet to MM
in Live MM still has pets
What Blizz is giving is a choice to be competitive with or without pets in Legion.
Pepsi Jedi wrote:I may be the odd one out but I liked MM with no pet. It made the three specs very much different.
"Get up close and fight WITH your pet"
"Stand back and COMMAND your pet, and fight from ranged"
"SNIPER" (Though I still think they should have gotten the gun.)
Giving MM back the pet seems... ehh... like caving to shut people up. Which sometimes can be good (Points to Haiti) But sometimes... ehh...
Not for... nothing but MM haven't been using pets for a while. I never saw MM running around with pets in the last expansion. They went MM to get the DPS boost from lone wolf and never looked back.
That's not to say that MM hunters aren't 'Hunter's' they just express it in different ways.
Now it's "Weak gun+Strong pet" vs "Strong bow+weakpet" and that just doesn't 'Live the fantasy:" to me
Survival at least is significantly different and innovative.
With the 'add back the pet' i will say it might be the only way I'd play MM now.... because I love my pets. I __________HATE______________ The BM Artifact.. so if I can go MM and get the Bow+A pet....
I'm going to have to weigh it. MM+Bow+Pet vs BM my fave and long running spec.. with Fugly gun, but with added shockdog.
You see this as wrong
Blizz didn't gave back pet to MM
in Live MM still has pets
What Blizz is giving is a choice to be competitive with or without pets in Legion.
I disagree. In the last expansion MM played with out pets. Sure it was an "option" but not one anyone used. If you were marksman you didn't have a pet due to lone wolf being so strong. The last what 10 or 15 posts point this out. If you wanted a pet you played BM or Survival. MM just clicked that lone wolf on and never looked back.
Now they're taking out what would make two specs unique. BM being 'ranged with pets' is no longer unique, and MM being apex snipers but with out pets is no longer unique.
Now it's "Strong pet+weak gun" vs "Strong bow+weak pet, maybe" (but likely not as they'll still choose lone wolf")
Blizz had the CHOICE to be competitive with or with out pets in legion already. It was "Beastmastery or Marksman"
Just to point out 'cause it was mentioned; Blizz's response to the weakness of Claws of Shirvallah was to remove it. It's currently completely gone last I checked; I think they decided it wasn't worth it as a mechanic (and also probably too many Furry jokes...)
someday I'll find someplace to host a sig that isn't stupid money-grubbing photobucket
Pepsi Jedi wrote:I may be the odd one out but I liked MM with no pet. It made the three specs very much different.
"Get up close and fight WITH your pet"
"Stand back and COMMAND your pet, and fight from ranged"
"SNIPER" (Though I still think they should have gotten the gun.)
Giving MM back the pet seems... ehh... like caving to shut people up. Which sometimes can be good (Points to Haiti) But sometimes... ehh...
Not for... nothing but MM haven't been using pets for a while. I never saw MM running around with pets in the last expansion. They went MM to get the DPS boost from lone wolf and never looked back.
That's not to say that MM hunters aren't 'Hunter's' they just express it in different ways.
Now it's "Weak gun+Strong pet" vs "Strong bow+weakpet" and that just doesn't 'Live the fantasy:" to me
Survival at least is significantly different and innovative.
With the 'add back the pet' i will say it might be the only way I'd play MM now.... because I love my pets. I __________HATE______________ The BM Artifact.. so if I can go MM and get the Bow+A pet....
I'm going to have to weigh it. MM+Bow+Pet vs BM my fave and long running spec.. with Fugly gun, but with added shockdog.
You see this as wrong
Blizz didn't gave back pet to MM
in Live MM still has pets
What Blizz is giving is a choice to be competitive with or without pets in Legion.
I disagree. In the last expansion MM played with out pets. Sure it was an "option" but not one anyone used. If you were marksman you didn't have a pet due to lone wolf being so strong. The last what 10 or 15 posts point this out. If you wanted a pet you played BM or Survival. MM just clicked that lone wolf on and never looked back.
Now they're taking out what would make two specs unique. BM being 'ranged with pets' is no longer unique, and MM being apex snipers but with out pets is no longer unique.
Now it's "Strong pet+weak gun" vs "Strong bow+weak pet, maybe" (but likely not as they'll still choose lone wolf")
Blizz had the CHOICE to be competitive with or with out pets in legion already. It was "Beastmastery or Marksman"
That's not fair. Hunters have had pets from the beginning, WoD changed things up and it's not as if you were forced to take Lone Wolf unless you're min/maxing and raiding competitively.
I haven't seen it answered yet why people are so opposed to CHOICE. You are not being forced to use a pet in Legion if you want to play MM! In fact, from the sounds of it, Lone Wolf is still the higher DPS option so why the need to complain and bring down other people who don't mind purposely gimping themselves to have their pet out and still play their preferred spec? From the way things sound, this currently will not affect high end/competitive raiders already looking to get the absolute most out of their class. MM still gets to be petless for those people. If you're someone that wants to play at their most competitive with a pet, then take your own advice and play BM. But stop fighting for us to have more options.
I can't possibly be the only person who would have to bench their hunter for a whole expansion because NONE of the specs as they were being put in for Legion made sense for my hunter. It's never a bad thing to have more choices for people; there clearly were enough people playing MM that wanted to have their pet out but were FORCED to take Lone Wolf to stay competitive. Like I've said before, if you want to play petless, that's great! You go do you. Meanwhile, don't try to belittle those of us who like our pets for any given spec (as WoW's hunter class was brought into the game as a pet class). I RP my huntress as a sniper who has a close bond with her pets and uses different pets for different missions that she's on.
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Lord Godfrey wrote:Some people only want to watch the world burn. Others want to be the ones responsible for burning it...
Some tiers of talents had talents that were more useful in certain situations. For example, Saberon form was mostly for pvp. You could use it in pve, but it was substandard there, and it pulled ahead in pvp. MM having a pet sometimes, like when doing solo content, doesn't mean having a pet should necessarily be evenly matched for all aspects of the game. Wait until the tuning passes to see if the dps difference in raids is more than a couple of percent.
TygerDarkstorm wrote:
That's not fair. Hunters have had pets from the beginning, WoD changed things up and it's not as if you were forced to take Lone Wolf unless you're min/maxing and raiding competitively.
I haven't seen it answered yet why people are so opposed to CHOICE. You are not being forced to use a pet in Legion if you want to play MM! In fact, from the sounds of it, Lone Wolf is still the higher DPS option so why the need to complain and bring down other people who don't mind purposely gimping themselves to have their pet out and still play their preferred spec? From the way things sound, this currently will not affect high end/competitive raiders already looking to get the absolute most out of their class. MM still gets to be petless for those people. If you're someone that wants to play at their most competitive with a pet, then take your own advice and play BM. But stop fighting for us to have more options.
I can't possibly be the only person who would have to bench their hunter for a whole expansion because NONE of the specs as they were being put in for Legion made sense for my hunter. It's never a bad thing to have more choices for people; there clearly were enough people playing MM that wanted to have their pet out but were FORCED to take Lone Wolf to stay competitive. Like I've said before, if you want to play petless, that's great! You go do you. Meanwhile, don't try to belittle those of us who like our pets for any given spec (as WoW's hunter class was brought into the game as a pet class). I RP my huntress as a sniper who has a close bond with her pets and uses different pets for different missions that she's on.
Why would you bench your hunter period?
Again MM not using pets isn't new, it's been that way for a long time now.
BM is all about the pets
Survival still has pets but is being changed to melee wich is actually pretty unique and sounds interesting.
If you don't want ranged with pets (BM)
Don't want sniper, ranged with out pets (MM)
and don't want melee with pets (Suv)
And BM doesn't fit the feel of my hunter. Playing her as BM is not something I want to have to be forced to do and you're completely missing the point. Again, there is nothing wrong with having a CHOICE in the matter. If YOU don't want to play with your pet out as MM, then DON'T. But don't go knocking on the clearly sizable enough numbers of hunters who must have asked for their pets back in MM. Blizzard wouldn't have made a point to give them back if people didn't want it.
None of those playstyles as you have them listed suits my hunter and therefore she'd be benched for the xpac. And I know I'm not the first person who has said "Hey, with this new change of getting pets back maybe I'll play my hunter now in Legion."
I'm fine with what Blizzard has been doing for Legion, cautiously excited even. What I'm not okay with is someone coming in here trying to take choice away from a class that was introduced into the game with pets and telling those people who like the MM playstyle but with their pet out to go fuck off and play BM because that's the new ranged with pets deal. Ever considered that some of us just really don't like BM's playstyle? Why should we be forced to play a spec we hate because people like you don't want us to have choices in the game?
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Lord Godfrey wrote:Some people only want to watch the world burn. Others want to be the ones responsible for burning it...
TygerDarkstorm wrote:
That's not fair. Hunters have had pets from the beginning, WoD changed things up and it's not as if you were forced to take Lone Wolf unless you're min/maxing and raiding competitively.
I haven't seen it answered yet why people are so opposed to CHOICE. You are not being forced to use a pet in Legion if you want to play MM! In fact, from the sounds of it, Lone Wolf is still the higher DPS option so why the need to complain and bring down other people who don't mind purposely gimping themselves to have their pet out and still play their preferred spec? From the way things sound, this currently will not affect high end/competitive raiders already looking to get the absolute most out of their class. MM still gets to be petless for those people. If you're someone that wants to play at their most competitive with a pet, then take your own advice and play BM. But stop fighting for us to have more options.
I can't possibly be the only person who would have to bench their hunter for a whole expansion because NONE of the specs as they were being put in for Legion made sense for my hunter. It's never a bad thing to have more choices for people; there clearly were enough people playing MM that wanted to have their pet out but were FORCED to take Lone Wolf to stay competitive. Like I've said before, if you want to play petless, that's great! You go do you. Meanwhile, don't try to belittle those of us who like our pets for any given spec (as WoW's hunter class was brought into the game as a pet class). I RP my huntress as a sniper who has a close bond with her pets and uses different pets for different missions that she's on.
Why would you bench your hunter period?
Again MM not using pets isn't new, it's been that way for a long time now.
BM is all about the pets
Survival still has pets but is being changed to melee wich is actually pretty unique and sounds interesting.
If you don't want ranged with pets (BM)
Don't want sniper, ranged with out pets (MM)
and don't want melee with pets (Suv)
What DO you want hunters to be?
Heh. I've had my hunter for nearly eight years now. So no, not having pets has not been how MM works "for a while now" to me. On the contrary, being a skilled marksman with an animal companion has. Pretty straightforward.
There's a difference between not using a pet to raid and not having a pet AT ALL. Yes I raid as MM and I use lone wolf BUT I use my pet for doing other things. Being able to summon my pet in situations like when the tank dies in a dungeon, while I'm questing or soloing etc is a very big deal to me.
The whole game isn't just the few hrs a week you devote to raiding. And if you think thats all MM hunters do then you have a very narrow view of the game.
There are people who identify their character with the MM spec and have done so for like a decade of play now. But these players were probably also drawn to Hunters because of the pet and have a decade of loving that equally. So I can understand how it's difficult to change that now.
I really appreciate their decision to make MM petless and to differentiate the specs more. There's currently really little difference between Hunter specs compared to other classes. But maybe it's too late to force such a big change without giving players the option of continuing to play with a pet. If the game was new it'd be totally different.
And I believe I can say that as an unbiased player, because I only play BM and have never played another spec on live. So the MM changes don't affect my gameplay or character at all.
Have they actually given the MM their pets back in Alpha yet? Last I looked it was a big no...really want to play my MM but refuse to do it without the pet because of sentimental reasons.
TygerDarkstorm wrote:And BM doesn't fit the feel of my hunter. Playing her as BM is not something I want to have to be forced to do and you're completely missing the point. Again, there is nothing wrong with having a CHOICE in the matter. If YOU don't want to play with your pet out as MM, then DON'T. But don't go knocking on the clearly sizable enough numbers of hunters who must have asked for their pets back in MM. Blizzard wouldn't have made a point to give them back if people didn't want it.
None of those playstyles as you have them listed suits my hunter and therefore she'd be benched for the xpac. And I know I'm not the first person who has said "Hey, with this new change of getting pets back maybe I'll play my hunter now in Legion."
I'm fine with what Blizzard has been doing for Legion, cautiously excited even. What I'm not okay with is someone coming in here trying to take choice away from a class that was introduced into the game with pets and telling those people who like the MM playstyle but with their pet out to go fuck off and play BM because that's the new ranged with pets deal. Ever considered that some of us just really don't like BM's playstyle? Why should we be forced to play a spec we hate because people like you don't want us to have choices in the game?
So again. if none of those aspects is what you see your hunter 'as'. What DO you see your hunter as?? If they're so far away from your head canon that you're going to bench the character for an expansion due to it??
TygerDarkstorm wrote:And BM doesn't fit the feel of my hunter. Playing her as BM is not something I want to have to be forced to do and you're completely missing the point. Again, there is nothing wrong with having a CHOICE in the matter. If YOU don't want to play with your pet out as MM, then DON'T. But don't go knocking on the clearly sizable enough numbers of hunters who must have asked for their pets back in MM. Blizzard wouldn't have made a point to give them back if people didn't want it.
None of those playstyles as you have them listed suits my hunter and therefore she'd be benched for the xpac. And I know I'm not the first person who has said "Hey, with this new change of getting pets back maybe I'll play my hunter now in Legion."
I'm fine with what Blizzard has been doing for Legion, cautiously excited even. What I'm not okay with is someone coming in here trying to take choice away from a class that was introduced into the game with pets and telling those people who like the MM playstyle but with their pet out to go fuck off and play BM because that's the new ranged with pets deal. Ever considered that some of us just really don't like BM's playstyle? Why should we be forced to play a spec we hate because people like you don't want us to have choices in the game?
So again. if none of those aspects is what you see your hunter 'as'. What DO you see your hunter as?? If they're so far away from your head canon that you're going to bench the character for an expansion due to it??
Why does it matter to you? Hunters are getting more options, and if you're not going to play as MM it shouldn't bother you at all. AND if you're going to play MM then you can play it without a pet should you choose. Tyger shouldn't need to explain herself to you because how she plays her character is none of your business. Let people be happy that they have options and stop trying to bring the mood down because tbh this WHOLE conversation that is all you have been doing.
If I may as 1 who is wanting to milk the classes in playstyle for everything. I like that I have a choice on using my pet from a range or melee. While I enjoy BM and never got into MM or survival and I stuck to the 1 spec most of the wow time. I plan on giving the other 2 specs a shot and still being able to dish out my Hydra while shooting arrows. This image just makes me think of being an annoying mob where they shoot arrows and the arrows hurt the most only you have some beast bitting the leg and the 1 your fighting is just having a hard time and getting more annoyed and not sure which to kill first.
Maybe that's the feel some MMs would like. I support you my fellow MM hunters.
)
I really hate not having pets when I raid 
