Cataclysm Talent System - Completely Changed

[Palladiamorsdeus]

I don't think that'll be the case, Kalli. They've actually stated that it's DONE, and will be implimented in a beta build shortly.

[Kalliope]

Wouldn't be the first time Blizzard had something DONE, then thought better of it.

Plainsrunning comes to mind.

[Ellaran]

I don't see any of it as "dumbing down". You have to take a "plus damage/crit" choice anyways if it's a talent, so it's already a no-brainer to just bake it into the spec and/or mastery. The talents that should matter are the ones that are active/proccing/more direct, like Bestial Wrath, Frenzy, Marked for Death, etc.

The problem I see with elitists and min-maxers is that they think that having more is always better, no matter what it is. We don't really need talents that give a flat overall increase, unless possibly if it's for a particular tree-specific talent/ability like Explosive Shot or Chimera Shot. We don't need overflowing, bloated trees with tons of secondary and tertiary talents.

[Shinryu Masaki]

I agree Ellaran. Just like GC said in a post somehere about unholy DKs, why force you to take 12 talents to boost your damage when you can get 50% to your melee damage and 25% to your frost and shadow damage all baked into a passive bonus that you get for free just by chosing to spec unholy? That's what the new talent tree system is all about. It's not dumbing down the game really. All the talents that used to give us damage boost (melee and spell), some crit and haste %, stuff like that, we will all get it passive, since we would have been forced to take them as talents anyway. Frees up the talent trees a LOT and leave room for more fun talents that we are not penalized for taking.

[Ellaran]

Exactly, and it makes perfect sense. The problem is people seem to think that if they don't have a choice, it's a horrible thing. They're complaining about the cookie-cutter builds this will somehow force (when the point amount, tree size and variety is practically proportionate to how it is now), completely forgetting that you're forced to do cookie-cutter builds right now. It's like they hate it that the unworthy people are going to get exactly what they're getting, despite the fact they get it already when they spec into it.

I don't know. I've never tried to understand elitists, most of their logic is fuzzy, circular and self-defeating. Who cares how other people play their characters, play yours and enjoy it, ya know.

[Kalliope]

Exactly, and it makes perfect sense. The problem is people seem to think that if they don't have a choice, it's a horrible thing. They're complaining about the cookie-cutter builds this will somehow force (when the point amount, tree size and variety is practically proportionate to how it is now), completely forgetting that you're forced to do cookie-cutter builds right now. It's like they hate it that the unworthy people are going to get exactly what they're getting, despite the fact they get it already when they spec into it.

I don't know. I've never tried to understand elitists, most of their logic is fuzzy, circular and self-defeating. Who cares how other people play their characters, play yours and enjoy it, ya know.

This is why I don't understand the emo, tbqh. The people who have no idea what they're doing will find a way to spec "incorrectly" regardless of the size of the trees. (Yes, I can think of many on my server who are perfect examples...)

[Ellaran]

You'll find people who do that in ANY game. Best ones are people who play racing games and ram into everything, drive backwards, and think you have to destroy the other cars to win.

[Shinryu Masaki]

This is why I don't understand the emo, tbqh. The people who have no idea what they're doing will find a way to spec "incorrectly" regardless of the size of the trees. (Yes, I can think of many on my server who are perfect examples...)

There's less chance of that happening. Not that it won't be totally gone, but with each talent only requireing 1, 2 or 3 points to max out, there's a pretty good chance that you will end up taking the needed talents anyway to move down further in the tree since we still need 5 points to change tiers. Right now we often have to max out one talent with 5 points, in cata we will have to max out two talents to do it.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

Alright, now I'm pissed. Saturo and I have already backed out of this discussion, and I politely requested that we STOP TALKING ABOUT IT. I do not appreciate being even slightly refered to as an elitist OR a min/maxer. In fact anyone who know's me knows that I am very, VERY verbal against min/maxing, finding it to be more of a chore then a fun past time.

I am going to say this one more time, before you guys hurt anymore feelings. Drop it.

[Vephriel]

I really don't want to be forced to lock this thread, so please everyone drop the negativity.

[Nevar]

I really don't want to be forced to lock this thread, so please everyone drop the negativity.

Sadly there seems to be a lot of negative things surrounding cataclysm, ya cant please everyone I guess but Veph is right no need for negativity and name calling on any part.

[Kalliope]

ROFL!

Divine Storm back into the talent tree
After further reflection, we don't think Divine Storm makes a good level 10 Ret ability. It really wants to be an AE attack, and it's just hard to make an AE attack a signature ability usable in as many situations as a signature attack deserves to be.

Divine Storm will probably go back into the talent tree. It won't be the 31-point though. Both the 31-point and the 10 ability need to have more single-target use. That means something like 3 new abilities for Retribution and several new or modified talents on top of that. Crazy.

As you can see, we're still iterating a lot on paladins. Our lack of communication is because things are changing quickly, so it doesn't make a lot of sense to share it all until things feel a little more stable. (Source)

From MMO. ^_^ That's something, anyway!

What they should really give ret pallies is crusader strike.

[Saturo]

They're giving all pallies Crusader Strike already. :P
I think it's the new level 5 ability.

[Kalliope]

Well, they'll be hard-pressed to find another ability for level 10 then! Pallies really don't have a lot going for them in terms of abilities.

[Saturo]

They might as well invent something new, retadins have a broken rotation already.

[Kalliope]

You mean they'd have to be CREATIVE?! Pallies won't just continue to be a faceroll class with ridiculously simple rotations?!?!

Don't get me wrong, Blizzard's been creative with other classes, but paladins overall have so few things to hit....I really hope you're right.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

Crusader strike as of current is a level 1 ability. And I am actually glad that DS is not a level 10 ability. That being said.....that doesn't actually...LEAVE anything for retri.

[Shinryu Masaki]

You're right Palla, doesn't leave much. He did mention 3 new abilities, but I'm not sure what they're going to come up with, and if it will be fun. I just hope my ret spec gets good stuff for the times I want to play my paladin and don't feel like tanking.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

With DS getting whacked in half, we can reasonably assume that retribution will at the very least be getting another single target attack with some form of special effect to it, probably on the cooldown that DS used. Then again I could be way off base.

[Lohuran]

I think a lot of people are overlooking one important detail in Blizz's post involving the overhaul.

"It's ZOMG AMAZING. We wouldn't go through all the work it is taking if we weren't convinced it was 100% win."

Yes, I know you shouldn't believe everything you hear, but it sounds promising to me. :3