Spirit Mend

[Geebs]

I think like 3 people have had to state that no pets have damaging abilities anymore. Damage is baseline, you're going after the pet for the special buff/skin.. not the damage upper.

You mean apart from Core Hounds, Wolves, Shale Crabs etc? lol. Whilst not directly damaging, they're all 'damage upping' abilities.

[Bellatryx]

I think like 3 people have had to state that no pets have damaging abilities anymore. Damage is baseline, you're going after the pet for the special buff/skin.. not the damage upper.

You mean apart from Core Hounds, Wolves, Shale Crabs etc? lol. Whilst not directly damaging, they're all 'damage upping' abilities.

How are damage upping abilities actually damaging abilities though? Say your pet is on passive for a fight .. for whatever reason.. and you have a macro in on your bar to trigger its skill.. is the pet doing damage with said ability then?

I also meant "damage upper" as far as the skills that offer extra burst damage.


Edit: Bad Grammar.. BAD.

[Kalliope]

I think like 3 people have had to state that no pets have damaging abilities anymore. Damage is baseline, you're going after the pet for the special buff/skin.. not the damage upper.

You mean apart from Core Hounds, Wolves, Shale Crabs etc? lol. Whilst not directly damaging, they're all 'damage upping' abilities.

How is damage upping abilities actually damaging abilities though?

^
This.

That's a DEBUFF on the mob, not a damage ability. There's a difference, and that's EXACTLY what Lovcat was saying in the post originally quoted here.

The point is that multiple pets have access to many of these buffs/debuffs. You DO in fact have more options than before.

[Geebs]

How are damage upping abilities actually damaging abilities though? Say your pet is on passive for a fight .. for whatever reason.. and you have a macro in on your bar to trigger its skill.. is the pet doing damage with said ability then?

I also meant "damage upper" as far as the skills that offer extra burst damage.

Edit: Bad Grammar.. BAD.

They're not direct damage upping abilities in that the pet isn't directly doing more damage, but Heroism, +Stats, +Crit do contribute to increased damage over, say, Tailspin or Spirit Mend for the Hunter and Pet as a single unit...which we are.

I'll forgive bad grammar, I'm too tired to care at 00:30 lol.

That's a DEBUFF on the mob, not a damage ability. There's a difference, and that's EXACTLY what Lovcat was saying in the post originally quoted here.

The point is that multiple pets have access to many of these buffs/debuffs. You DO in fact have more options than before.

Heroism, +Stats and +Crit aren't debuffs on a mob. Yes, you have more options than before, but you're still limited, which I thought they were trying to avoid?

I'm not disputing the fact we have more options; my point was that people will be choosing certain pets for their 'damage upping' abilities, rather than their looks

[Rikaku]

I'm not disputing the fact we have more options; my point was that people will be choosing certain pets for their 'damage upping' abilities, rather than their looks

Exactly what I've thought about this whole thing the entire time.

[Geebs]

I suggested a variation on the Beta forums earlier.

Remove all special abilities, pop in a new tier within the talent tree called "Special Ability" which allows you to choose one. So you then have the option to take a point in Heroism, +Stats or +Crit, alongside your regular pet talent build.

This way all pets will be doing the same base damage, you choose your pets by looks alone and can take whatever special ability you need before a raid/5-man/soloing by visiting the pet trainer.

[Bellatryx]

How are damage upping abilities actually damaging abilities though? Say your pet is on passive for a fight .. for whatever reason.. and you have a macro in on your bar to trigger its skill.. is the pet doing damage with said ability then?

I also meant "damage upper" as far as the skills that offer extra burst damage.

Edit: Bad Grammar.. BAD.

They're not direct damage upping abilities in that the pet isn't directly doing more damage, but Heroism, +Stats, +Crit do contribute to increased damage over, say, Tailspin or Spirit Mend for the Hunter and Pet as a single unit...which we are.

I'll forgive bad grammar, I'm too tired to care at 00:30 lol.

That's a DEBUFF on the mob, not a damage ability. There's a difference, and that's EXACTLY what Lovcat was saying in the post originally quoted here.

The point is that multiple pets have access to many of these buffs/debuffs. You DO in fact have more options than before.

Heroism, +Stats and +Crit aren't debuffs on a mob. Yes, you have more options than before, but you're still limited, which I thought they were trying to avoid?

I'm not disputing the fact we have more options; my point was that people will be choosing certain pets for their 'damage upping' abilities, rather than their looks

That's not exactly the point. The whole debate and disappointment is tied to the spirit beast losing its moonfire-like ability and gaining a heal. We're not talking about pets that have heroism, +stats and +crits buffs in this thread at all.

I doubt they are limiting as much as making the choices easier and more openly understandable to newer players and adding functionality to the hunter instead of having the majority of hunters (majority in all, not majority here) having either a cat, bear, wolf or boar for their needs.

Have you read the new tool-tip for Aspect of the Hawk? Heck, most of the tool-tips I have seen on the PTR are simple enough so that everyone can clearly understand what they do.

[Bluemain]

the 3 examples posted by geebs above are all buffs, not debuffs, kings,+crit and herosim cannot be called debuffs by any stretch of the imagination, and to say something like heroism isnt a damage upper is missleading. it may not be a pets attack but it does increase dps.

if any hunters pet abilitys increases the damage of the hunter then i think its vaible to call that a damaging attack, wolves didnt have a damaging attack in that respect, but they were the no 1 pet for a reason.

and given that the majority of buffs, especcialy ones pets have are covered my mutple classes in a raid, are covered by multiple classes and then also covered by tradeskills(drums,runescrolls ect), it will be very unlickly in 25 man and odd againts in a 10 man that you wont be covered.

Ok, lets take this into a raid situation say 10 man

2 tanks
3 healers
5 dps

Theres a lot of crossover on buffs, for example a pet that does a kings effect is covered by pallys,druids and LW, and at a better lvl than say shail crabs

the only one thats really limeted is herosim and that has 2 classes providing it. and in all fairness that limits the hunter to beast mastery and again limits to a core hound, which on a personal note, i dont like the great big stompy things.

so that will go from no bm hunters to must be bm with a specific pet or no raid?, same problem as before but the other side of the coin

[Geebs]

That's not exactly the point. The whole debate and disappointment is tied to the spirit beast losing its moonfire-like ability and gaining a heal. We're not talking about pets that have heroism, +stats and +crits buffs in this thread at all.

Well, in a way it is to do with those pets as well as the Spirit Mend addition. Now that Spirit Strike is gone, I will be doing more DPS with a Devilsaur or Wolf than I would be with my Spirit Beast. Thus making Spirit Mend a less desirable addition (IMO) over +stats, +crit and heroism buffs.

[Rikaku]

That's not exactly the point. The whole debate and disappointment is tied to the spirit beast losing its moonfire-like ability and gaining a heal.

My problem is a pet getting a heal period. That's my disappointment. Not the loss of Spirit Strike. I'll welcome a buff/debuff any day, just not a heal that I have yet to find useful on beta.

[Bluemain]

I would love to take my spirit beasts to raids, in wolk thats not viable as bm is lower damage and wolves were too op
in cata, i looked forward to raiding with my spirit beasts, but again overshadowed by others due to the fact they have a gimmicky heal little better than a dancing fox.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

A spirit beast won't do less damage then a devilsaur or wolf per se, but that five percent critical will boost them up into more useful territory. That being said, I can see SPirit mend being a useful supplimental heal, even more so if you have that 5% critical buff already covered, like a ten man with a fury warrior or what have you in a ten man.

[Geebs]

That's not exactly the point. The whole debate and disappointment is tied to the spirit beast losing its moonfire-like ability and gaining a heal.

My problem is a pet getting a heal period. That's my disappointment. Not the loss of Spirit Strike. I'll welcome a buff/debuff any day, just not a heal that I have yet to find useful on beta.

Quite, my issue is not with the loss of Spirit Strike but being given a heal, especially when other pet families have been given abilities such as heroism...bla bla bla.

[Bellatryx]

Man, I kinda feel like I'm getting ganged up on...

That's not exactly the point. The whole debate and disappointment is tied to the spirit beast losing its moonfire-like ability and gaining a heal. We're not talking about pets that have heroism, +stats and +crits buffs in this thread at all.

Well, in a way it is to do with those pets as well as the Spirit Mend addition. Now that Spirit Strike is gone, I will be doing more DPS with a Devilsaur or Wolf than I would be with my Spirit Beast. Thus making Spirit Mend a less desirable addition (IMO) over +stats, +crit and heroism buffs.

I'd like to repeat your IMO, most of the skills you've listed and have been argued in this thread are mostly based on one certain mindset.. I know that others play hunters recreationally and not as a job to raid and only raid.. I doubt everyone is choosing their pets solely on its worth and utility in a raiding environment and even a dungeon spamming environment.

I also think its funny that you feel having an pet that can HEAL YOU even for a small amount is a minus. I think it would be a complete plus. I think this would actually influence me to choose a Spirit Beast.

[Geebs]

A spirit beast won't do less damage then a devilsaur or wolf per se, but that five percent critical will boost them up into more useful territory. That being said, I can see SPirit mend being a useful supplimental heal, even more so if you have that 5% critical buff already covered, like a ten man with a fury warrior or what have you in a ten man.

No, the pet won't do less damage but the pet and hunter combination will. I think using raids as an example isn't the best because in a 10-man raid if you're needing a Hunter to cast a heal on a player, your healers are either not good enough, not geared enough...or dead, but I'm going to say there's a problem with that too, lol.

[Bellatryx]

A spirit beast won't do less damage then a devilsaur or wolf per se, but that five percent critical will boost them up into more useful territory. That being said, I can see SPirit mend being a useful supplimental heal, even more so if you have that 5% critical buff already covered, like a ten man with a fury warrior or what have you in a ten man.

No, the pet won't do less damage but the pet and hunter combination will. I think using raids as an example isn't the best because in a 10-man raid if you're needing a Hunter to cast a heal on a player, your healers are either not good enough, not geared enough...or dead, but I'm going to say there's a problem with that too, lol.

And in a 10-man raid there are more important players to keep up than hunters (ie. the tank), so having a pet which can give you a small possibly life-saving heal would be beneficial and help the healers. It's not implied that the hunter would be off-healing or anything.

[Bluemain]

Love cat, i hope you dont feel ganged up on. i personally see this as a good way to debate pros and cons, agruing about things is by no means a negative thing, you have the right to say your opinion, and i for one am glad for it. whilst i may not agree with your opinions, i do respect you and respect the right your right to say those opinions.

no, not everyone plays to raid and not every one plays to pvp or other things. we all play for many different reasons and thats a brilliant thing. whilst i do, or at least did raid, so the majority of my opinion comes from that footing.

i can really only reflect on the the things i do in game, and in that context my spirit beasts, are lacking.

i hope no feeling were hurt, if so i apologise

[Geebs]

I'd like to repeat your IMO, most of the skills you've listed and have been argued in this thread are mostly based on one certain mindset.. I know that others play hunters recreationally and not as a job to raid and only raid.. I doubt everyone is choosing their pets solely on its worth and utility in a raiding environment and even a dungeon spamming environment.

I also think its funny that you feel having an pet that can HEAL YOU even for a small amount is a minus. I think it would be a complete plus. I think this would actually influence me to choose a Spirit Beast.

Don't want you to feel like you're being ganged up on at all

I added in the IMO because that's all it is. I enjoy levelling my hunter, I enjoy 5-mans and I enjoy raiding. Thing is, I have a Ferocity pet to do damage, and lots of it; I'm a purist. Having a pet heal you (IMO) is more utility...which Ghostcrawler classes Cunning pets as.

To me, if I'm being hit by something when questing, I've done something wrong or I could've done something better in order for me not to be hit. I'm happy for my pet to get hit, I've got Mend Pet, Spirit Bond and Lick Your Wounds for that. I've also got traps to make sure I'm not being hit. So, whilst having a pet that can heal me might not necessarily be a minus...I've chosen my Ferocity pet for its damage output, not its ability to heal me.

[Geebs]

And in a 10-man raid there are more important players to keep up than hunters (ie. the tank), so having a pet which can give you a small possibly life-saving heal would be beneficial and help the healers. It's not implied that the hunter would be off-healing or anything.

I see where you're coming from but my main pre-ICC was a healer and if I found out one of the hunters was healing a target, I'd be wondering why they had to. Either I'm slacking or struggling, or one of the other healers is. If that's the case, they shouldn't be there.

Any good 10-man raid will take raid healers and tank healers. If they can't do the job, they shouldn't be there. Wiping is part of raiding, not everyone is going to be geared for certain fights, that's what gear up is all about

[Rikaku]

To me, if I'm being hit by something when questing, I've done something wrong or I could've done something better in order for me not to be hit. I'm happy for my pet to get hit, I've got Mend Pet, Spirit Bond and Lick Your Wounds for that. I've also got traps to make sure I'm not being hit. So, whilst having a pet that can heal me might not necessarily be a minus...I've chosen my Ferocity pet for its damage output, not its ability to heal me.

Yeah, don't feel like you're ganged up on. It's really just a matter of opinions.

Geebs description hits the nail on the head why I don't think more pets for BM-only need a healing spell. Between talents, pet talents, and spell... I really haven't come across a scenario where Spirit Mend is going to be useful.

As for the raiding scene, I find that most of the time when my raid has wiped, saving one person would not have saved the raid. Usually (again in my experience) when my guild wipes, there was more than one person or thing that went wrong that led to our demise; not one persons death and certainly not the death of the hunter.