A fun place to chat about hunter pets in the World of Warcraft.
https://forums.wow-petopia.com/
Turgus wrote:I figured I would chime in with my 2 cents.
As a hunter that has played and experienced each of the specs through all the many changes that Hunters have seen over the years I have to say a couple of things.
The ONLY thing that makes BM fun for me is the fact that I get to run around with King Krush by my side, the two of us taking down bosses, Alliance in PvP ect. It isn't the minor attacks speed increase, the 3-second stun that my pet gets, or the big red button.
First, strictly speaking, in my opinion BM has little utility in comparison to the other specs, Intimidation: the 3-second stun is on a 45 second cooldown (with talents of course, 1 min cooldown otherwise) while nice is no where near as useful as scatter shot (which I personally love)
The Beast Within: a 10 second minor increase to damage for you and your pet (10% for you 50% for your pet) and immunity to CC for its duration is nice, and is essentially a second PvP Trinket is on a 1 min 20 sec cooldown (talented and glyphed of course, 2 min cooldown otherwise)
The synergy that this ability gives, the TWO of you get big red and deadly for 10 seconds to take down a target makes the BM spec kind of fun. While it is used primarily as a burst button, this ability doesn't hold a candle to the burst that both Survival and Marksman can throw down (Chimera Shot, Explosive Shot), nowhere even close.
The only thing that makes it shine for me is the CC immunity in PvP, aside from that it is about the same as using a DPS trinket or getting a proc from my armor or trinket.
If I could have King Krush and spec Survival with its wyvern sting, scatter shot, and not to mention explosive shot, or if I could spec Marksman with its double trapping capability, silencing shot, chimera shot, and bleeds on (some) shot crits too, it would be no contest.
Second, I enjoy the variety of different play styles, but the most boring of them to me is BM, there is little variation (steady shot, arcane shot, aimed/multi shot, ...rinse repeat), though sometimes that is good, (like when I am grabbing a drink and not seeing my DPS go down) is very difficult at times to enjoy, while Survival and especially Marksman specs are much more dynamic, having to change your play style to match your opponent and situation. If I had to choose which play style I would want to play, it would again, be no contest.
I understand why hunters would like to have these beautiful pets with them when they are raiding ICC, since BM isn't raid viable in any kind of guild that is focused on raiding. (I have raided ICC as BM, the last one I was in I got allot of dirty looks even though I was pulling better DPS than all but one of the MM hunters in the raid, which I shouldn't have been able to do, but I digress.)
But you must understand the resistance that BM hunters, (and yes, I am dividing the Hunter community into factions, because they are divided on this issue) would have to this change. To a MM or SV hunter, it doesn't seem to be that much of issue ("its just a cool skin" ...ect, which is true) but we BM hunters are quite attached to our pets and don't want to let just anyone have them. Maybe it is a bit selfish, but considering it is THE last talent, taking 50 others in BM to get too, I think we have a right to be.
Simply giving us two pets instead of one, or giving us some "insert name here" shot would take away the shine, the uniqueness that Beast Master Hunters have right now.
While I am resistant to the idea, I love discussing it, and am always open to hearing a differing opinion.
Who knows? Maybe I can be convinced
(edited to add this)
Now, I don't agree that BM should be this way, BM should have more than just a shiny pet to make it unique, to make it stand out and offer something unique in comparison to the other specs. Maybe pets that are REALLY tougher, i.e. Tenacity Pets actually having Tank like Hit Points (30-40k at 80), ect.
Of course what these changes would be I am not sure, but I am willing to muse over them.
After reading that, i seconed your opinion, totally the truth and a awsome ideaQuelthasa wrote:Turgus wrote:I figured I would chime in with my 2 cents.
As a hunter that has played and experienced each of the specs through all the many changes that Hunters have seen over the years I have to say a couple of things.
The ONLY thing that makes BM fun for me is the fact that I get to run around with King Krush by my side, the two of us taking down bosses, Alliance in PvP ect. It isn't the minor attacks speed increase, the 3-second stun that my pet gets, or the big red button.
First, strictly speaking, in my opinion BM has little utility in comparison to the other specs, Intimidation: the 3-second stun is on a 45 second cooldown (with talents of course, 1 min cooldown otherwise) while nice is no where near as useful as scatter shot (which I personally love)
The Beast Within: a 10 second minor increase to damage for you and your pet (10% for you 50% for your pet) and immunity to CC for its duration is nice, and is essentially a second PvP Trinket is on a 1 min 20 sec cooldown (talented and glyphed of course, 2 min cooldown otherwise)
The synergy that this ability gives, the TWO of you get big red and deadly for 10 seconds to take down a target makes the BM spec kind of fun. While it is used primarily as a burst button, this ability doesn't hold a candle to the burst that both Survival and Marksman can throw down (Chimera Shot, Explosive Shot), nowhere even close.
The only thing that makes it shine for me is the CC immunity in PvP, aside from that it is about the same as using a DPS trinket or getting a proc from my armor or trinket.
If I could have King Krush and spec Survival with its wyvern sting, scatter shot, and not to mention explosive shot, or if I could spec Marksman with its double trapping capability, silencing shot, chimera shot, and bleeds on (some) shot crits too, it would be no contest.
Second, I enjoy the variety of different play styles, but the most boring of them to me is BM, there is little variation (steady shot, arcane shot, aimed/multi shot, ...rinse repeat), though sometimes that is good, (like when I am grabbing a drink and not seeing my DPS go down) is very difficult at times to enjoy, while Survival and especially Marksman specs are much more dynamic, having to change your play style to match your opponent and situation. If I had to choose which play style I would want to play, it would again, be no contest.
I understand why hunters would like to have these beautiful pets with them when they are raiding ICC, since BM isn't raid viable in any kind of guild that is focused on raiding. (I have raided ICC as BM, the last one I was in I got allot of dirty looks even though I was pulling better DPS than all but one of the MM hunters in the raid, which I shouldn't have been able to do, but I digress.)
But you must understand the resistance that BM hunters, (and yes, I am dividing the Hunter community into factions, because they are divided on this issue) would have to this change. To a MM or SV hunter, it doesn't seem to be that much of issue ("its just a cool skin" ...ect, which is true) but we BM hunters are quite attached to our pets and don't want to let just anyone have them. Maybe it is a bit selfish, but considering it is THE last talent, taking 50 others in BM to get too, I think we have a right to be.
Simply giving us two pets instead of one, or giving us some "insert name here" shot would take away the shine, the uniqueness that Beast Master Hunters have right now.
While I am resistant to the idea, I love discussing it, and am always open to hearing a differing opinion.
Who knows? Maybe I can be convinced
(edited to add this)
Now, I don't agree that BM should be this way, BM should have more than just a shiny pet to make it unique, to make it stand out and offer something unique in comparison to the other specs. Maybe pets that are REALLY tougher, i.e. Tenacity Pets actually having Tank like Hit Points (30-40k at 80), ect.
Of course what these changes would be I am not sure, but I am willing to muse over them.
What you say explains the situation very good^^ Don't have anything else to say than that I totally agree with you and... Quote for the truth!
) I would rather see a shot, and size of the pet added. You know inside you there will be added a shot in Cata which will do nature damage, and replace steadyshot spam, think it will be better^^ And since it ignores armor I think it could be viable, and also the BM spec would be the spec that this shot belongs to, I just hope they dont change the spec too much 
I kinda like it as it is atm,I did spec into Aimed Shot at one point, but ended up messing around with my talents again to try to get something else. Either way, though, Multi-Shot and Aimed Shot are on the same cooldown, so you're using one or the other. It was still just too boring for me.Quelthasa wrote:Ya what you say there is very nice, and I got to agree that it is boring, but just a tip for you; Respec and spec into aimed shot, gives you some nice benefits in PvP and adds a shot in PvE, not really bad in any way..
I just felt that maybe forcing the two pets to act as one, in that they attack the same target, would prevent things from getting too crazy with having your two pets running all over the place. And with a small debuff, they wouldn't hit as hard. Blizz has said that they are going to substantially increase the amount of stamina for everyone in Cataclysm, to try to get away from this whole "bursting" idea. From what I remember reading (though that is subject to change), they don't want an entire fight to hinge on the first 5 seconds of battle.
The lengthening of Bestial Wrath is specifically FOR raiding. Bestial Wrath increases damage done, so lengthening the time you spend Wrathed increases damage by quite a bit--hence me suggesting the other changes, to balance it for PvP. They'd halved the duration just to nerf it in PvPWe need a boost to BM for raiding as well, where sadly recount rules all.
That pretty much sums up exactly my opinion, only in a far better, more concise fashion!BM's "signature" should not be pets.
Rhyela wrote:While I'm on the subject of boring, I know I've heard that BM benefits from armor pen at a much earlier soft cap than the other specs. They should theoretically start gemming ArPen at what...450? Something like that? Then when they do finally reach whatever the higher cap is, they drop Arcane Shot out of the rotation. So, as if BM isn't bad enough, you should eventually drop Arcane Shot as well. Wooo, so now you have Aimed/Multi, Serpent, and Steady. WOW. Not to mention that in essence takes away from the power of your pet when you're buffing yourself instead of them.
So, in theory, for people who want to end-game raid BM, they have to do it in such a way that they become a watered-down, more boring version of the other two specs, with a pet that does do better, sure, but not as strong as it would normally be if you had AP/Agility gems.
Ugh. I could be all wrong, but that's the general jist I'm getting. Three-shot rotation (technically two when serpent is already up), less of an ability to be mobile, and a weaker pet. How is that fun? You gotta go through all that to have a more boring shot rotation, all so you can bring a devilsaur to the raid.
Blizzard, please make BM interesting in some other way.
But they do, there's been a whole article somewhere dedicated to helping out BM hunters gear for ArPen even though it doesn't benefit the pet. It's to get bigger numbers in BM in end-game raiding, even though it doesn't help the pet at all. And that was my point, the only way BM can get bigger numbers is by helping themselves rather than their pet, which takes away the whole essence of being BM. But they do it so that they can bring their devilsaur or what-have-you. And that is pretty sad, indeed. You shouldn't have to sacrifice the heart of a spec just to pull bigger numbers, there's something fundamentally flawed with the idea. Removing ArPen will help probably, but it's not going to fix the issue. Something else needs to be given to BM hunters to give them their boost. I love Tahlian's idea of something that's based on hunter-pet synergy, having the two work together as a team. THAT is the heart of BM in my opinion, not which pet it is but how the two work together as one. Anything they can do along those lines would be fantastic. Then the new or not-so-new SV hunters like myself can bring their "exotic" pets that they adore, without having to go BM. I know my husband adores his tiger Mittens, but I know he really wanted Gondria back in the day. But, he couldn't have her and raid with her. Well, he *could* have, but he wasn't willing to sacrifice the things he enjoys about SV.Quelthasa wrote:Rhyela wrote:While I'm on the subject of boring, I know I've heard that BM benefits from armor pen at a much earlier soft cap than the other specs. They should theoretically start gemming ArPen at what...450? Something like that? Then when they do finally reach whatever the higher cap is, they drop Arcane Shot out of the rotation. So, as if BM isn't bad enough, you should eventually drop Arcane Shot as well. Wooo, so now you have Aimed/Multi, Serpent, and Steady. WOW. Not to mention that in essence takes away from the power of your pet when you're buffing yourself instead of them.
So, in theory, for people who want to end-game raid BM, they have to do it in such a way that they become a watered-down, more boring version of the other two specs, with a pet that does do better, sure, but not as strong as it would normally be if you had AP/Agility gems.
Ugh. I could be all wrong, but that's the general jist I'm getting. Three-shot rotation (technically two when serpent is already up), less of an ability to be mobile, and a weaker pet. How is that fun? You gotta go through all that to have a more boring shot rotation, all so you can bring a devilsaur to the raid.
Blizzard, please make BM interesting in some other way.
Don't think pets scale with ARP, so I doubt anyone BM would ever gem that knowing the pets scale from agi gems etc.
Exactly.Acherontia wrote:BM goes through the AP->Agi->ArP progression just like everyone else, but at different gear levels. I personally prefer not to go for ArP as that decreases pet dmg output, though increasing your own--I think if you do that, why not just spec MM: /
And I'm not trying to "have my cake and eat it too," I just honestly wish that Blizz could figure out a way to improve the situation in most peoples' favor (because you can't make everyone happy).But they do, there's been a whole article somewhere dedicated to helping out BM hunters gear for ArPen even though it doesn't benefit the pet. It's to get bigger numbers in BM in end-game raiding, even though it doesn't help the pet at all. And that was my point, the only way BM can get bigger numbers is by helping themselves rather than their pet, which takes away the whole essence of being BM. But they do it so that they can bring their devilsaur or what-have-you. And that is pretty sad, indeed. You shouldn't have to sacrifice the heart of a spec just to pull bigger numbers, there's something fundamentally flawed with the idea. Removing ArPen will help probably, but it's not going to fix the issue. Something else needs to be given to BM hunters to give them their boost. I love Tahlian's idea of something that's based on hunter-pet synergy, having the two work together as a team. THAT is the heart of BM in my opinion, not which pet it is but how the two work together as one. Anything they can do along those lines would be fantastic. Then the new or not-so-new SV hunters like myself can bring their "exotic" pets that they adore, without having to go BM. I know my husband adores his tiger Mittens, but I know he really wanted Gondria back in the day. But, he couldn't have her and raid with her. Well, he *could* have, but he wasn't willing to sacrifice the things he enjoys about SV.
Agree'dBM goes through the AP->Agi->ArP progression just like everyone else, but at different gear levels. I personally prefer not to go for ArP as that decreases pet dmg output, though increasing your own--I think if you do that, why not just spec MM : /
Ooo, or I just remembered something a lot of people have been wanting - perhaps make armor that only Beast Mastery hunters can get for their pets? They could have special stats or "set bonuses" attached. I'm not sure how they could implement that to be fair, but it could be neat for raiding BM hunters. Maybe when they get a tier piece for themselves, they are also given a tier piece for their pet? That way they wouldn't fall behind so much. Plus, they'd still get the prettiness/shiny factor that the other specs wouldn't have. Devilsaur with spiky steel armor > plain devilsaur.Quelthasa wrote:HAHA, wtb pet socket spots !!!! xD
I seriously hope they do not add something like that, because having specific items, for ONE spec of ONE class, is just ridiciolous. No offense to those that want it, of course.Rhyela wrote:Ooo, or I just remembered something a lot of people have been wanting - perhaps make armor that only Beast Mastery hunters can get for their pets? They could have special stats or "set bonuses" attached. I'm not sure how they could implement that to be fair, but it could be neat for raiding BM hunters. Maybe when they get a tier piece for themselves, they are also given a tier piece for their pet? That way they wouldn't fall behind so much. Plus, they'd still get the prettiness/shiny factor that the other specs wouldn't have.
What I meant was that they wouldn't have to do anything extra to get it. No rep, no extra emblems, nothing like that. They don't have to work any harder or do anything more to get them, they aren't even treated as items in your bag. They'd be somehow attached to the tier pieces or something.Saturo wrote:I seriously hope they do not add something like that, because having specific items, for ONE spec of ONE class, is just ridiciolous. No offense to those that want it, of course.Rhyela wrote:Ooo, or I just remembered something a lot of people have been wanting - perhaps make armor that only Beast Mastery hunters can get for their pets? They could have special stats or "set bonuses" attached. I'm not sure how they could implement that to be fair, but it could be neat for raiding BM hunters. Maybe when they get a tier piece for themselves, they are also given a tier piece for their pet? That way they wouldn't fall behind so much. Plus, they'd still get the prettiness/shiny factor that the other specs wouldn't have.
Then see, I'm a genius!!!Saturo wrote:Well, in that case, it sounds sort of like what they're planning to do with BM Mastery in Cata, so you'll see a variety of it, at least.